Confirmed with Link: Phaneuf on the Pha-move to LA

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Although he’s been deployed that way, I refuse to believe that Oduya was brought in to replace Methot as EK’s partner. His contact is that of a depth player. I absolutely believe that PD (and lots of people here) felt that Methot could be replaced internally, so no effort was made to find a replacement.

And unless I missed it (entirely possible) he didn’t say the D is fine.

I tend to agree with you.

Anyone who knew the role Oduya played, for a few seasons, before coming to Ottawa knew that he was NOT the "replacement for Methot"........... assuming that was a mistake most causal fans won't admit.

No one in the Senators organization ever said he was the "replacement for Methot".

I think a lot of people believed that either Harpur or Claesson would be tried in Methot's place, based on how they both played in 2016-17....... and if one of them could not carry the load, then perhaps a platoon system would work .......... but we all saw that did not work out, and Oduya was given some time to play with Karlsson as a result.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Dorion literally calls into TSN 1200 when they say something he doesn't like. Pretty sure he reads press coverage and fan discussion.

First of I've never heard Dorion Call in to TSN 1200, unless they've arranged it for an interview.

Also, the Press coverage is not the same as Bloggers, posters comments here and on twitter ................ reading the latter would be a complete waste of his time.

 

[BonkTastic]

I get what you are saying, but my original comment was based on you stating that "Dorion was speaking to casual fans in his press conference". I argued that casual fans don't listen to press conferences.

They don't listen to press conferences live, like you or I or other hardcore fans do, sure.

Guys like Bruce Garrioch do, though. And Ian Mendes. And Don Brennan. And Wayne Scanlan, etc, etc... and then they write about it, or talk about it in the public sphere. Casual fans don't tune in live to the pressers, but they do read about it in the paper the next day, though.

"Coffee break, let's see what's in the sports section. Oh hey, did you guys hear this quote from the team?"

I am adamant about how wrong you are about this. What Dorion is doing when he "praises" the team, what Murray did before him, what Muckler did before him... what every sports General Manager since the dawn of time has done... this is the most basic level of salesmanship in the world we are talking about, here. Like, this isn't even a college-level 101 course we're talking about, it's basic common sense.

 

[BatherSeason]

Do you really think any NHL GM reads bloggers posts and tweets about their team?

I'm sure he hears about them, but why would any GM waste their time?

Ask Pierre that question. He has mentioned it more than once before.

And as for calling into the show...he did it as Pierre from Orleans, thus the "Pierre from Orleans" jokes.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

First of I've never heard Dorion Call in to TSN 1200, unless they've arranged it for an interview.

Also, the Press coverage is not the same as Bloggers, posters comments here and on twitter ................ reading the latter would be a complete waste of his time.

Ironic

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

First of I've never heard Dorion Call in to TSN 1200, unless they've arranged it for an interview.

It must have never happened then.

 

[BonkTastic]

It must have never happened then.

Can you provide me a link or some form of proof supporting your claim that it never happened?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Ironic

He could preach to others but not himself.

 

[pzeeman]

He could preach to others but not himself.

Is it possible to learn this power?

r/PrequelMemes is leaking...

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Can you provide me a link or some form of proof supporting your claim that it never happened?

I said, "I've never heard him call in" ......not that he's never called in.

However I do listen to TSN everyday, for a few hours, morning and afternoons, and I've never heard PD call in to complain about something that was said, like any caller to the station would.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Is it possible to learn this power?

r/PrequelMemes is leaking...

Not from a vampire.

 

[Brannstorm]

I like the trade. Do you?

This is the first move to lessen the financial damage caused by overpaying lugs. Like you I am impressed Melnyk bought something on sale rather than a bit of a pattern in the past.

Karlsson has all the leverage here and I suspect both he and his agent know it. I doubt that planning for the reality that key players will need salary increases and the organization would benefit from investing in scouting loses ground in a negotiation. Would this be news to anyone (other than you perhaps)?

Next year will be as bad as this year I expect. As will the year after that. Your fantasy of reading my mind and how I will react to a bad season is wrong.

I do like the trade.

You first said that "Admittedly I'd feel a lot better about the trade if Melnyk immediately committed to reinvesting in K'son/Stone, scouts, etc."

With respect to your bolded statement. We all already know this. Dorion said he is willing to trade anyone but Karlsson and Stone because we want to retool.

But to come out and "immediately" say we are committing whatever money we made to Karlsson's future deal would just look wrong, to me. It is obvious we are trading a lot of people. Karlsson too has not played well. Lots of bad blood for sure.

They have promised a lot of change and have started to deliver. The money we could be saving in the next couple of weeks might be enough to fill the gullets of the most hypocritical of Melnyk maniacs.

Also next year will be bad? and the year after that? and I am reading your mind? You have not only reacted poorly to a bad season but you also predict, unfortunately, many bad seasons in the future for our team. This is not good.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Why 3 years for a 4th like C? Thompson only had 1 year left

Harpur replaces Phaneuf (for now)
Shore replaces Thompson
Gaborik replaces someone (we’ll have to wait and see how things unfold)

If not Thompson then someone else .. I guess

 

[Xspyrit]

The implication is that the trade is really bad if there's nothing more going on with Gaborik to lower the Senators commitment to him (LTIR, retirement, etc).

Would you rather pay Phaneuf a real money AAV of 6.16M for the next three seasons? Or would you rather pay Gaborik a real money AAV of approx 5.16M for the next three seasons? Once you simplify things, that is basically what this works out to money wise.

Phaneuf at 6.16M or Gaborik at 5.16M? I'll take Phaneuf.

(Yes, there is the Shore for Thompson swap which will result in a very minor savings in cash but otherwise is mostly inconsequential value wise.)

I don't know.

Phaneuf x 3 years @ 6.17 vs Gaborik x 3 years @ 3.61

Phaneuf should be your #4-5 if you're a good team. Gaborik can still play on your 3rd line and PP

Of course, the problem is the retention as it kills at least half of the savings they could have made. Few teams NEED and could fit Phaneuf in their D-core, but the only way LA could have gone for this deal is at a more reasonable cap hit.

One thing you are overlooking is that Nick Shore is actually a quality bottom-6 Center and is quite young (same as Pageau, Dzingel, Stone...). Thompson is 33 y/o and would have played his last season with Ottawa next year. Nick could be a bottom-6 "core" piece for a few years, and do even better. It's not just about that ~650 K$ saved next season. I think Sens fans will like him, he works hard, wins face-offs, has excellent hockey sense and has decent playmaking ability with a decent shot. Oh and most importantly, he is good defensively.

In conclusion, I think they want to reshape the Defense more than anything

1. I'm not sure why Gaborik would retire & leave $10 mil on the table. He's probably still better than everyone else in Ottawa's bottom six & if they trade Brassard they will need some goal scoring up front. I could see him on a line with Hoffman & Duchene & Pageau will likely replace Brassard. White could potentially replace Pageau as the 3rd line centre, if Smith is also traded, otherwise he could go back to centre.
2. Thompson is not a UFA he had another yr on his contract.
3. It's more likely Claesson replaces Phaneuf on the roster since he has a one way contract & Harpur can stay in Belleville. Wideman may be another option on D, he may be ready to return by the end of the month.

Duchene, Pageau, White & Shore down the middle looks weak. There has to be more coming, the roster looks terrible for next yr.

1. Actually, I think Gaborik could do a decent job in the bottom-6 and on the PP. Proble for him might be motivation though. We never know, maybe he could be motivated next year surrounded by young players.

Hoffman-Duchene-White
Ryan-?????-Stone
Dzingel-Pageau-Gaborik
?????-Shore-Pyatt

I believe Smith, Brassard and Burrows will be traded (or won't be back next year) so I didn't include them. Impossible to know which prospects could make the team or if they acquire someone via FA/trade, or even if their 1st round pick this year gets in the line-up right away. For now, I think that's roughly how the forward group is shaping next season.

2- What I meant there is with trading Thompson and not paying his 2nd year, it becomes like if the Sens only signed him for a year in the first place.

3- Well Harpur just got called up, but I was talking about next year anyway. Harpur replaces Phaneuf next season for now (that could change)

4- Impossible to "judge" the line-up next year as we have no idea what else will change. Will Brown make the team? Will Chlapik make the team (should)? Who else? Will we draft Zadina, Tkachuk or Svechnikov? Do we make trades? Do we sign an UFA?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Its nice for Bruce to be able to get the facts straight for his readers.

Dorion deserves credit because many predicted he’d never be able to move Phaneuf’s contract with a $7.5-million cap hit through the 2020-21 campaign, but the Senators knew the Kings were seriously interested when the two sides first talked during last June’s draft in Chicago.

This trade was so much about the $ .. one would think he'd have that down.
Senators' GM Pierre Dorion keeps busy after dealing Phaneuf, Thompson

 

[OttawaSenators11]

He needs to pull off a miracle and get rid of Ryan now.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why in the hell did LA give Gaborik a 7 year contract when he was 32?

To lower the AAV to 4.875

Before signing the deal in June 2014, Gaborik had a 76 pts season in 2011-12 playing all 82 games, then he had 27 pts in 47 games and 30 pts in 41 games leading to this deal. He also won the Cup a few weeks before while scoring 14 goals in 26 games...

If it was 3-5 years (like you asked after), it would have cost a lot more than an AAV of 4.875 and the Kings wouldn't have been able to fit him under the Cap.

Because most GMs are bad.

The best part of this trade is that it finally breaks up the darling duo of Phaneuf and Ceci. Addition by subtraction.

Who will everyone blame now when Ceci continues to be dog poop? Next in line, I guess.

Pair Ceci with a mobile D-man (Chabot?) and get a real #2 to play with EK and then it might put Ceci in the right chair as a 2-way #4 D-man. He is not supposed to be a shutdown D-man.

Oduya, Burrows, Smith, Pyatt, Paajarvi. That was peak Paarjarvi even!

Numbers are based on their 2010-11 seasons paces (2009-10 for Gaborik and Burrows; 2011-12 for Phaneuf, Karlsson, Smith and Pyatt) :

Ryan (71)-Duchene (69)-Gaborik (93)
MacArthur (62)-Brassard (52)-Burrows (67)
Paajarvi (35)-Smith (26)-xxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxx-Pyatt (21)

Oduya (17)-Karlsson (79)
xxxxxx-xxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxx

Anderson
xxxxxx

Sens blog claiming retained salary doesn't count towards signing bonuses. Meaning, we only have to pay 25 percent of Dion's base salary. Does anybody know if this is true?

In that case, we are on the hook for 3.5M total over 3 seasons (1.375M/1.375M/0.750M) which is a little better than 4.615M over 3 seasons. (1.62M/1.62M/1.375M).

Good news.

You guys are going to be so grateful in a couple of years when we don't have to protect Phaneuf in the expansion draft and risk losing a good piece of the team again. That alone is worth retaining salary on to make sure we don't have this guy on the team anymore.

Yes, that was probably a big factor for pulling the trigger too.

They got the best two players in the deal though. We saved a bit of money and made room for young auditions. Not sure there is a "winner" here but la got better we got worse so....

You know that?

And it looks like Gaborik is already underrated, simply because he's half of the player he was before, which was an elite player. His production declined after the 2014-15 season, but he still has been producing at a 34 pts pace with about 13 minutes of ES TOI/GP and about 1:40 of PP TOI/GP. That's good 3rd line numbers. I think he can perform like the Michalek of his last 2 years in Ottawa.

It also looks like not many know Nick Shore.

Ya, he refused to waive his NMC. That's why we lost Methot.

We got rid of two pieces we do no need. We saved money. Why would we want to get better this year? Why would we want Phaneuf/Thompson moving forward? That's all that matters.

Well this. It's the short summary of the situation.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I said, "I've never heard him call in" ......not that he's never called in.

However I do listen to TSN everyday, for a few hours, morning and afternoons, and I've never heard PD call in to complain about something that was said, like any caller to the station would.

Haven't heard him call in to complain but he did call in around the Sweden trip to semi gloat.....that's where the TSN1200 term "Pierre from Orleans" came from as he randomly called in seemingly unprovoked.

 

[Pancakes Pancakes]

It must have never happened then.

I was about to say this. If you can't prove it, it never happened. And even if you prove it, he will ignore it.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

To lower the AAV to 4.875

Before signing the deal in June 2014, Gaborik had a 76 pts season in 2011-12 playing all 82 games, then he had 27 pts in 47 games and 30 pts in 41 games leading to this deal. He also won the Cup a few weeks before while scoring 14 goals in 26 games...

If it was 3-5 years (like you asked after), it would have cost a lot more than an AAV of 4.875 and the Kings wouldn't have been able to fit him under the Cap.







Pair Ceci with a mobile D-man (Chabot?) and get a real #2 to play with EK and then it might put Ceci in the right chair as a 2-way #4 D-man. He is not supposed to be a shutdown D-man.



Numbers are based on their 2010-11 seasons paces (2009-10 for Gaborik and Burrows; 2011-12 for Phaneuf, Karlsson, Smith and Pyatt) :

Ryan (71)-Duchene (69)-Gaborik (93)
MacArthur (62)-Brassard (52)-Burrows (67)
Paajarvi (35)-Smith (26)-xxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxx-Pyatt (21)

Oduya (17)-Karlsson (79)
xxxxxx-xxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxx

Anderson
xxxxxx



Good news.



Yes, that was probably a big factor for pulling the trigger too.



You know that?

And it looks like Gaborik is already underrated, simply because he's half of the player he was before, which was an elite player. His production declined after the 2014-15 season, but he still has been producing at a 34 pts pace with about 13 minutes of ES TOI/GP and about 1:40 of PP TOI/GP. That's good 3rd line numbers. I think he can perform like the Michalek of his last 2 years in Ottawa.

It also looks like not many know Nick Shore.







Well this. It's the short summary of the situation.

Re: Bonuses

That was misinformation spread by that blogger. I've since gotten clarification from a few different people, and as it turns out, we retain 25 percent of Phaneuf's total salary (base salary+signing bonuses). It's been covered in this thread, but with how many pages this thread is, I don't blame you or anybody else for missing it.

 

[coladin]

I don't really see a difference. From what Kings fans say, Gaborik isn't NHL quality anymore, and Shore is a nothing piece. Phaneuf has the worse contract but has some ability if he was on the third pairing; Thompson was ok, but also a nothing piece.


At this point, it's just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic to get at a few coins buried under the cushions. What the kids say these days....a 'nothingburger.'

I don't think Phaneuf has some ability. I honestly don't see how much longer he will be able to keep up. He is Hal Gill in the wrong era right now. Game is so fast now and he is a borderline NHLer at best

 

[Pancakes Pancakes]

Not from a vampire.

Waiting for someone to come correct you about Dracula vs Vampires...

How dare you....

 

[aragorn]

With this coach & his love for vets I bet Gaborik plays on the top line as I have said before, we'll see. And he is a skilled forward which probably makes more sense that he does play with top line players to take advantage of his skillset. Hopefully PD can now get rid of Oduya, Paajarvi & Pageau or Brassard. I also wonder whether they will also move Claesson since they are not using him much.

I bet we see a lineup similar to this tonight:

Hoffman - Duchene - Gaborik
Smith - Brassard - Stone
Dzingel - Shore - White
Paajarvi - Pageau - Pyatt

Oduya - Karlsson
Chabot - Ceci
Claesson - Boroweicki/Harpur

 

[Xspyrit]

Agree. Doesn't exactly equal a "win" on the trade though. That's all I'm saying

Teams don't make trades to WIN them, they are addressing problems. Budget could be a problem, cap space could be a problem, weakness at a position could be a problem, etc.

Though McLean did think Ottawa would trade Stone before Brassard.

If Dorion has the Stone to trade stones...

If modify that to top 6. We could really use one of Boqvist or Dobson or Hughes as part of a rebuild. The well is pretty dry as far as our D prospects go.

Karlsson 27 y/o
Chabot 21 y/o
Ceci 24 y/o
Jaros 21 y/o
Wolanin 22 y/o
Harpur 23 y/o
Lajoie 20 y/o
Summers 21 y/o
Claesson 25 y/o
Englund 22 y/o

Dorion actually came across pretty well in that press conference.

I mean, in no way were we dealing from a position of strength on D like he stated, but that's something he needs to say.

I think in between the lines (or what I think anyway) is it WILL BE a position of strength, as it really doesn't matter right now (but he obviously can't say that)

Except we'll look pretty stupid if we have a good year next year.

Exactly and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens rise again next year. Devils and Avs have a much better season this year trusting their youth. Sens did it before too.

"This is an exciting time for our fans"

Last year was a total success (no matter how some will try to spin it) so it's not too far in my mind. I can deal with a bad season that way.

What I'm excited about :

- a top-5 pick (didn't happen since Phillips in '96, not counting Spezza as it was part of a deal)
- a new youth movement (like it happened in 2010-11) and now it happens again 7 years later. Sens made the playoffs the 2 following years and even beat the 2nd seed in 2012-13 (Habs, rather easily and it was a pleasure to witness for a Sens fan in Montreal)
- excited to see Chabot, White, Chlapik, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Jaros, Harpur, etc graduate with the Sens in the next few years.

The only thing that can save this team comes from drafting. They are good at it, so what is happening right now will force them to play the prospects they drafted. This is the only way they could get good again. Not with UFAs and certainly not by Dorion's trading.

Seriously, he seems to have no clue how good this team is. Last season Ottawa had the 19th best goal differential in the league, which is a much better indicator of where your team is at than 11 playoff games...

11 playoffs games? (that's where I stopped reading)

After listening to that presser I'm not sure how any of those poster who like to brush Garrioch off as Sens mouthpiece can continue with that conspiracy theory. Dorion seemed more annoyed by Bruce than anyone else.

He said a lot of nothing here, enough to protect the players on the team, salute the players traded, to let people know that he has a plan that he is carrying out (obviously), and that he won't answer specifics on his plan for Gaborik, Shore, or the plan going forward. All in all it was a well delivered message, that hints on continued changes going forward.

The one thing he was unequivocal about was signing EK.

The same posters as always stooping to personal attacks on PD, and willful ignorance. Such a drag.

Shhhh or you will be painted as a villain!

Apparently it's perfectly fine to trash and insult people that are not HF posters.

Agreed. Dorion is a fool for thinking everything on D is fine. Hence why I wanted him gone. He doesn't see what many Sens fans see as the team's biggest weakness. Anderson and Condon were the reasons last year why we even came close to the playoffs. This year they go back to being human and our defensive zone flaws are being exposed.

Human yes, but NHL level? Hmmm not sure. What they did last year was to give the Sens solid usual NHL goaltending. You need to watch more NHL games, most teams receive that.

When your goalie is outplayed by the other team's goalie in almost every game, there's a big problem.

 

[Zorf]

Karlsson 27 y/o
Chabot 21 y/o
Ceci 24 y/o
Jaros 21 y/o
Wolanin 22 y/o
Harpur 23 y/o
Lajoie 20 y/o
Summers 21 y/o
Claesson 25 y/o
Englund 22 y/o

I think the poster you quoted was referring to the Sens not having much in the way of high end defensive talent in the prospect pool after Chabot (is he still considered a prospect or has he graduated now?).

The Sens have a fair amount of exciting players at the forward ranks, not much at D, and other than Hogberg, basically nothing for goaltending prospects (but goalies are weird and can come out of nowhere to be pretty darn good).

So yes, I think the Sens do need to draft more defencemen, and hopefully find some gems because now that Chabot has graduated, there aren't really any guys worth getting excited over. Maybe Jaros?