Confirmed with Link: Phaneuf on the Pha-move to LA

[topshelf15]

Also, the "casual fan" is not tuning in to any press conferences, nor are they the people you are trying to sell season ticket packages to.

Try not to take everything he says at face value ...Read between the lines...Like when he was asked why he pulled PH9 in the middle of a game and LA didnt pull the players coming to Ottawa,he said he would pull his player because LA is in a PO race,and that even if our players got hurt he would still take them......

Does that sound like a gm that really cares about guys like Shore or Gaborik.....Both will be gone by June

 

[SensFactor]

What would you like him to say??Our blueline in terrible and I have no faith in our young Dmen becoming nhl players...Come on man

I'm agree that would never happen but him saying publicly (in his interview yesterday for example) that he believes are D are one of the team's strengths, questions the intelligence of fans. The D is not fine. Signing Oduya to try and fill the minutes of Methot is not fine. I don't like how he sugar coats his own mistakes and makes them seem like it's no big deal.

 

[Micklebot]

Before Dion it was Cowen and Weircoch, before that it was Phillips' fault. Then it was because he was called up too early, so "he was learning the pro game". Who's next up in the Cody Ceci blame game? Cmon down Thomas Chabot! Let me guess, Chabot is going to be too "offensive minded" and Ceci will struggle because he is always picking up Chabot's defensive responsibilities.

Don't recall their being much complaining about Ceci when he was with Phillips. That was when he was still viewed in a pretty positive light by most.

The interesting bit is pretty much everyone you mentioned save Phaneuf is out of the league, so while you are right that he's consistently had people point to his partner as an excuse, it's hard to argue that guys who aren't even good enough to be 6/7 dmen right now weren't part of the problem when playing in a top 4 role with Ceci.

To put it in perspective, lots of people complained that Karlsson's poor start to the 14-15 season was because of rotating with Boro, Phillips, Wiercioch and Cowen with Methot out injured. He went from a pretty pedestrian 50.1 CF%, and 46.8 GF% with those guys to 54.8 CF% and 64.3 GF% with Methot, is a similar sample size. Partner and role changed when Methot returned, and Karlsson both looked better, and had the metrics to go along with it.

I think Ceci would ideally be paired with a mobile partner with some puck skills, and deployed in a more balanced fashion (not purely shutdown mins). We really haven't seen that yet. You mentioned Chabot, and I've always thought they'd be a good match. I'd be ok with Claesson too even though he's not much of a puck mover, so long as they aren't looked at as a shutdown pair.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

“But now Cody is probably ready to take someone under his wing" - My favorite quote from Dorion yesterday.

“I know a lot of the pundits out there might disagree with it,” Dorion said, “but Cody is one player I’d like to have a Senator for a long, long time.”

Wow

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Don't recall their being much complaining about Ceci when he was with Phillips. That was when he was still viewed in a pretty positive light by most.

The interesting bit is pretty much everyone you mentioned save Phaneuf is out of the league, so while you are right that he's consistently had people point to his partner as an excuse, it's hard to argue that guys who aren't even good enough to be 6/7 dmen right now weren't part of the problem when playing in a top 4 role with Ceci.

To put it in perspective, lots of people complained that Karlsson's poor start to the 14-15 season was because of rotating with Boro, Phillips, Wiercioch and Cowen with Methot out injured. He went from a pretty pedestrian 50.1 CF%, and 46.8 GF% with those guys to 54.8 CF% and 64.3 GF% with Methot, is a similar sample size. Partner and role changed when Methot returned, and Karlsson both looked better, and had the metrics to go along with it.

I think Ceci would ideally be paired with a mobile partner with some puck skills, and deployed in a more balanced fashion (not purely shutdown mins). We really haven't seen that yet. You mentioned Chabot, and I've always thought they'd be a good match. I'd be ok with Claesson too even though he's not much of a puck mover, so long as they aren't looked at as a shutdown pair.

The thing about Ceci is that alot of his mistakes aren't really due to his teammate not supporting. He makes a lot of uncontested and self inflicted errors.

 

[Xspyrit]

This is the best course of action, but you quickly realize that we don't have many young guys who can hack it in the NHL. Might just be me, but I don't have much faith in Claesson. At 25 he is what he is. Harpur is more of an unknown still, and I have no idea how Jaros has done in the AHL so far. Hopefully we acquire some by moving Brassard.

I like the future on Defense :

Karlsson, Chabot, Ceci, Jaros, Wolanin, Harpur...

But they will need a good vet (around Karlsson's age) that can be a #2 between EK and Chabot giving them all a bit more time to grow into their game. I am thinking of Niklas Hjalmarsson, I would go hard after him this summer.

Borowiecki, Wideman, Englund, Claesson, Summers as depth/stop gaps. Trade the surplus when needed.

We can’t. How do you kickstart the rebuild without what would undoubtedly be a lottery pick in 2019? Over a barrel right now.

Predictions/expectations have been very good the last few years!

Sens were supposed to suck last year, almost made it to the SCF. They were supposed to be good this year, possible top-5 pick. And it's like this every year.

It's impossible to know what the roster will look like next year. With prospects like Chabot, White, Brown, Chlapik, Jaros and the next 1st round pick on the doorstep, I'm hopeful. More coming too with Batherson, Wolanin, Formenton, etc.

We all know Sens operate under intense budget pressure. So lessening salary burden is a big deal.

It could mean difference between keeping or trading Hoffman or Karlsson for example.

Very well said, that's the reality the Senators have to face. As long as they identify the important core players to keep (Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, Karlsson, Chabot, Pageau, etc), then I don't mind if they cut other salaries.

No posts have been moved. The savings aren't noticeable enough to retain players like Hoff and EK.

A team budget is a global thing though. If you save 2 M$ left, 2 M$ right and 2 M$ center, you end saving 6 M$, which allows you to reach your initial objective.

I really hate people saying "well you wanted Phaneuf traded so why are you pissed now that he is?". We had to take on a contract that no other team would have traded for either so how is this some sort of magical trade?

I mean, from LA's perspective, it certainly IS magical.

Nobody is saying it's a "magic trade" for Ottawa. And how is it magical for LA? Phaneuf is going to take 5.25 on their cap for each of the next 3 years despite the salary retained. It's not that bad of a thing though, it's about what he's worth (is he going to decline though?). Even if nothing is "magical" there, it doesn't mean both teams can't find what they are looking for. Exactly like when the Sens acquired Phaneuf in the first place. Now the Sens are on the other side of the deal : cut salary, leave space for younger players.

I do have a problem with moving Hoffman and Pageau, who are signed on good deals. The coach and style we play is a bigger problem than those guys IMO, and you can swap them out for Sprong, Fabbri, Kyrou or anyone else, but if we try to play the same way next year, we'll have the same results.

Exactly. A lot of NHL players would suddenly look worse on the current team and the way they played.

But seriously I am very curious to hear PD explain this move. Skill doesn’t go up. Dollars are not that much different. Term is the same. Team gets older. Somebody please make this make sense.

Financial move. Sens aren’t contending this year.

Shore (25) replaces Thompson (33)
Harpur (23) replaces Phaneuf (32)

Gaborik (36)? We have no idea yet if he replaces someone else... Maybe Burrows (36), maybe LTIR, maybe retirement, maybe, maybe, maybe.

Also, Sens 5.5 with this move, minus Nick Shore's salary next year.

the 1.8 per year ; looks like @Ouroboros posted the breakdown .
The 5.4 or 5.5 does not include the cost of a 4th Line C replacement over those 3 years, nor a D replacement for Phaneuf .. So if those 2 positions average out to 900k each .. it seems like no savings and we use cheap replacements

Why 3 years for a 4th like C? Thompson only had 1 year left

Harpur replaces Phaneuf (for now)
Shore replaces Thompson
Gaborik replaces someone (we’ll have to wait and see how things unfold)

 

[topshelf15]

Financial move. Sens aren’t contending this year



Why 3 years for a 4th like C? Thompson only had 1 year left

Harpur replaces Phaneuf (for now)
Shore replaces Thompson
Gaborik replaces someone (we’ll have to wait and see how things unfold)

If we are pulling the supports out to crash the team to the basement,then i think EK should have some tightness in his ankle(wink,wink)And be shut down for the rest of the season.....Let him rest and clear his mind

 

[Micklebot]

I'm agree that would never happen but him saying publicly (in his interview yesterday for example) that he believes are D are one of the team's strengths, questions the intelligence of fans. The D is not fine. Signing Oduya to try and fill the minutes of Methot is not fine. I don't like how he sugar coats his own mistakes and makes them seem like it's no big deal.

I really think he just meant that we have NHL quality Dmen not in the lineup, which is true. Our D isn't a team strength, but depth on D is an asset. We have Claesson and Harpur who can play bottom pair mins no problem, Englund how can be a callup for injuries, Jaros who should get a look this season. We lack top 4 guys, yes, but we certainly have the quantity of guys who could be roster players.

 

[HF Reader]

I don't really see a difference. From what Kings fans say, Gaborik isn't NHL quality anymore, and Shore is a nothing piece. Phaneuf has the worse contract but has some ability if he was on the third pairing; Thompson was ok, but also a nothing piece.


At this point, it's just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic to get at a few coins buried under the cushions. What the kids say these days....a 'nothingburger.'

I understand and agree with your point. As I'm sure you know my point is that if you're going to be a bad team you'd best do it as inexpensively as possible without jeopardizing the future. Even if this trade makes the on-ice performance worse it is irrelevant.
I might be overly pessimistic but this team could be bad for a few years to come. White, Chabot and perhaps a couple of others will help.

Very interesting decisions ahead.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

“But now Cody is probably ready to take someone under his wing" - My favorite quote from Dorion yesterday.

Scary.

Also:
“I know a lot of the pundits out there might disagree with it,” Dorion said, “but Cody is one player I’d like to have a Senator for a long, long time.”

Pierre really spends far too much time trying to prove the people on Twitter wrong. Not sure I have heard ANY "pundits" out there ever criticize Ceci other than the bloggers on Twitter. The rest of the Ottawa media has strayed very clear of ever discussing Ceci.

It really does not matter what "people on twitter" say.

Perhaps the reason why you never hear the high volume of hate for Ceci in the Ottawa media, as you do here, is because they're more objective, and can actually see both the good and bad in all the players on the Senators.

Perhaps the Ceci haters here in this and other forums are wrong, did you ever consider that possibility?

 

[Upgrayedd]

If we are pulling the supports out to crash the team to the basement,then i think EK should have some tightness in his ankle(wink,wink)And be shut down for the rest of the season.....Let him rest and clear his mind

Sprinkle in healthy doses of #14 and #29 and that 2nd worst in the league record is ours for the taking, unfortunately I believe Arizona is simply to experienced to pass. Would be nice to have 5th overall pick this year!

 

[Benjamin]

It really does not matter what "people on twitter" say.

Perhaps the reason why you never hear the high volume of hate for Ceci in the Ottawa media, as you do here, is because they're more objective, and can actually see both the good and bad in all the players on the Senators.

Perhaps the Ceci haters here in this and other forums are wrong, did you ever consider that possibility?

The dislike of Ceci isn't limited to HF Sens. Other boards plus people i know irl that are fans of other teams generally think very little of Ceci.

What is Ceci actually good for? It seems like he's OK at everything, great at nothing. All while consistently making mistakes with and without the puck. Reminds me of Colin Greening.

 

[BatherSeason]

But they will need a good vet (around Karlsson's age) that can be a #2 between EK and Chabot giving them all a bit more time to grow into their game. I am thinking of Niklas Hjalmarsson, I would go hard after him this summer.

How long have we been saying this, 4, 5 years now? Remember when we actually thought PD would find an adequate replacement for Methot and instead gave us Oduya?

Dorion said it yesterday, he thinks our D is fine the way it is. No chance he is acquiring a vet.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

It really does not matter what "people on twitter" say.

Perhaps the reason why you never hear the high volume of hate for Ceci in the Ottawa media, as you do here, is because they're more objective, and can actually see both the good and bad in all the players on the Senators.

Perhaps the Ceci haters here in this and other forums are wrong, did you ever consider that possibility?

So the people on twitter and HF boards are all wrong? What is more plausible, the masses that think he is an underwhelming defenceman or the smaller media crowd who never really question anything about him?

 

[BonkTastic]

Do you think the fanbase or even the casual fan is that dumb?

The casual fan base?

I wouldn't call it "dumb" as much as I would call it "ignorant", but yes. Absolutely I do, yes.

 

[BonkTastic]

Also, the "casual fan" is not tuning in to any press conferences, nor are they the people you are trying to sell season ticket packages to.

Are you honestly being serious right now?

If so, I am legitimately speechless. I can't possibly believe you would think that, because it defies any logical explanation.

 

[BatherSeason]

It really does not matter what "people on twitter" say.

Perhaps the reason why you never hear the high volume of hate for Ceci in the Ottawa media, as you do here, is because they're more objective, and can actually see both the good and bad in all the players on the Senators.

Did you even read my post?? Who are these "pundits" that he is talking about then? He can only be talking about all the bloggers and analytics people out there. Garrioch, TSN1200, TSN, no one other than the blogosphere has called out Cody Ceci.

Of course it shouldn't matter what people say on Twitter, but it seems to matter to PD. He has mentioned that he does pay attention to "social media" before, and no, I will not provide you with proof.

Also, as I have asked in the Cody Ceci thread multiple times, please explain the good you speak of without using "he plays tough minutes", or "the coach likes him, so he must be good".

 

[BatherSeason]

Are you honestly being serious right now?

If so, I am legitimately speechless. I can't possibly believe you would think that, because it defies any logical explanation.

Please define what you would call a casual fan??

To me, my wife is a casual fan, she enjoys watching games here and there, she knows the players, understands the game, but really has no interest in buying a season ticket package. I work with people who are casual fans, they know the results of the games, watch when the team is playing well, but will never ever buy any type of season ticket package.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Did you even read my post?? Who are these "pundits" that he is talking about then? He can only be talking about all the bloggers and analytics people out there. Garrioch, TSN1200, TSN, no one other than the blogosphere has called out Cody Ceci.

Of course it shouldn't matter what people say on Twitter, but it seems to matter to PD. He has mentioned that he does pay attention to "social media" before, and no, I will not provide you with proof.

Also, as I have asked in the Cody Ceci thread multiple times, please explain the good you speak of without using "he plays tough minutes", or "the coach likes him, so he must be good".

Do you really think any NHL GM reads bloggers posts and tweets about their team?

I'm sure he hears about them, but why would any GM waste their time?

 

[Korpse]

So the people on twitter and HF boards are all wrong? What is more plausible, the masses that think he is an underwhelming defenceman or the smaller media crowd who never really question anything about him?

I mean a lot of the same people thought Claesson was better than Ceci, they certainly weren't right.

 

[pzeeman]

How long have we been saying this, 4, 5 years now? Remember when we actually thought PD would find an adequate replacement for Methot and instead gave us Oduya?

Dorion said it yesterday, he thinks our D is fine the way it is. No chance he is acquiring a vet.

Although he’s been deployed that way, I refuse to believe that Oduya was brought in to replace Methot as EK’s partner. His contact is that of a depth player. I absolutely believe that PD (and lots of people here) felt that Methot could be replaced internally, so no effort was made to find a replacement.

And unless I missed it (entirely possible) he didn’t say the D is fine.

 

[BonkTastic]

Please define what you would call a casual fan??

To me, my wife is a casual fan, she enjoys watching games here and there, she knows the players, understands the game, but really has no interest in buying a season ticket package. I work with people who are casual fans, they know the results of the games, watch when the team is playing well, but will never ever buy any type of season ticket package.

My dude, the number of "casual fans" I used to interact with on a nightly basis when I used to work in the arena would legitimately astound you. The type that loved Alfredsson, but couldn't name a single player on our 3rd or 4th lines, or knew who the 3rd pairing defenceman were, or couldn't name any of the assistant coaches. They didn't follow literally any other team, couldn't name more than 3 players on any other NHL team in the league except maybe Toronto due to rivalry. They had no clue who we drafted in the most recent draft. These fans numbered in the THOUSANDS... and they were all at the games. The "casual fan" market is what takes us from 16,000 fans per game to 19,500+ fans per game. The "casual fan" is who is buying the $30 nosebleed 12-game packs in the sections of the arena that are currently empty these days.

I am telling you, you are a thousand percent wrong here. I am almost always willing to debate someone openly about most any topic and keep an open mind, because a lot of what we talk about on this site is extremely subjective, but I'm putting my foot down on this one. This is not debatable. You are ill-informed, and are making a terrible argument based solely on a wholly and thoroughly anecdotal "feeling you have".

I mean, I'm not going to tell you that you're not allowed to think this way. You do you. But know that you are wrong on a colossal scale.

 

[Micklebot]

Did you even read my post?? Who are these "pundits" that he is talking about then? He can only be talking about all the bloggers and analytics people out there. Garrioch, TSN1200, TSN, no one other than the blogosphere has called out Cody Ceci.

Of course it shouldn't matter what people say on Twitter, but it seems to matter to PD. He has mentioned that he does pay attention to "social media" before, and no, I will not provide you with proof.

Also, as I have asked in the Cody Ceci thread multiple times, please explain the good you speak of without using "he plays tough minutes", or "the coach likes him, so he must be good".

I think it's completely unfair to ignore the context of his mins. If you ignore the context, Wideman has 1st pairing numbers. The reality is Ceci is put in a position to fail, and the reason the coaching staff continues to play him so many mins is because their expectations are tempered by knowing that.

Is he a top pairing quality guy, certainly not, but when you ignore role and deployment evaluating a player, you end up with some goofy evaluations.

 

[BatherSeason]

My dude, the number of "casual fans" I used to interact with on a nightly basis when I used to work in the arena would legitimately astound you. The type that loved Alfredsson, but couldn't name a single player on our 3rd or 4th lines, or knew who the 3rd pairing defenceman were, or couldn't name any of the assistant coaches. They didn't follow literally any other team, couldn't name more than 3 players on any other NHL team in the league except maybe Toronto due to rivalry. They had no clue who we drafted in the most recent draft. These fans numbered in the THOUSANDS... and they were all at the games. The "casual fan" market is what takes us from 16,000 fans per game to 19,500+ fans per game. The "casual fan" is who is buying the $30 nosebleed 12-game packs in the sections of the arena that are currently empty these days.

I am telling you, you are a thousand percent wrong here. I am almost always willing to debate someone openly about most any topic and keep an open mind, because a lot of what we talk about on this site is extremely subjective, but I'm putting my foot down on this one. This is not debatable. You are ill-informed, and are making a terrible argument based solely on a wholly and thoroughly anecdotal "feeling you have".

I mean, I'm not going to tell you that you're not allowed to think this way. You do you. But know that you are wrong on a colossal scale.

I get what you are saying, but my original comment was based on you stating that "Dorion was speaking to casual fans in his press conference". I argued that casual fans don't listen to press conferences. The two examples I gave are people who probably didn't even know a press conference took place yesterday. I would say, the large majority of the people that listen to press conferences, post on message boards, etc are not casual fans, so why insult the fanbase's intelligence again.

Also, your comment that is bolded speaks exactly to what I was saying, casual fans aren't buying tickets. Did they? I can't argue with what you experienced working at the arena, so yes, they did. The question now is, why aren't they buying? A topic that has been discussed seemingly forever here and something that needs to be addressed. Winning helps.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Do you really think any NHL GM reads bloggers posts and tweets about their team?

I'm sure he hears about them, but why would any GM waste their time?

Dorion literally calls into TSN 1200 when they say something he doesn't like. Pretty sure he reads press coverage and fan discussion.