Post-Game Talk: |Pens win vs Jackets | Night at the Sidbury

[Darren McCord]

Kap doesn't seem to fit all that great.

Good winger, but not making Malkin any better or getting more out of his talent because of Malkin. Doesn't have a special teams role.

Is he even an upgrade over Heinen or Rodrigues? I'd rather roll the dice with one of them at a lower cap hit and use Kap as trade bait.

Just because he doesn't have a special teams role doesn't mean he shouldn't. He was a fine PKer for Toronto. Sully just loves his role players too much. Kap shouldn't be moved unless its for an upgrade. He most definitely shouldnt be moved to make room for erod.

 

[Andy99]

This seems far too simplistic given the wide variance of Kapanen's time as a Penguin. I mean, this season's p/60 - 1.7. Nice but not shattering. Last season's - 2.82 - actually elite. Last season, Kapanen scores at a 2.97 p/60 with Geno. This season... Kapanen is still at 2.97 p/60 with Geno actually. And their on ice results are better. Which has me side-eying some of the complaints. We're cheering breaking up a combo scoring at 3.96 goals per 60 and with a 53% xGF. The results are stunning and logically we should be delighted with them.

But I think even if we ignore that and go on eyetest of the process rather than measuring the results, the idea that what we're seeing now from Geno-Kapanen is everything they can be doesn't hold up.

I mean Sullivan is the one complaining …he’s moved Kap off of a Geno’s wing twice in less than a week…obviously he doesn’t care about those analytics lol…

 

[Darren McCord]

This seems far too simplistic given the wide variance of Kapanen's time as a Penguin. I mean, this season's p/60 - 1.7. Nice but not shattering. Last season's - 2.82 - actually elite. Last season, Kapanen scores at a 2.97 p/60 with Geno. This season... Kapanen is still at 2.97 p/60 with Geno actually. And their on ice results are better. Which has me side-eying some of the complaints. We're cheering breaking up a combo scoring at 3.96 goals per 60 and with a 53% xGF. The results are stunning and logically we should be delighted with them.

But I think even if we ignore that and go on eyetest of the process rather than measuring the results, the idea that what we're seeing now from Geno-Kapanen is everything they can be doesn't hold up.

This is with Kap constantly getting pulled off and demoted. Ya he's in consistent but the team doesn't give him consistency. People are just upset because he's not a 60pt player playing with TB or Carter half the season. If he was he'd be worth 6mil+

 

[Darren McCord]

I mean Sullivan is the one complaining …he’s moved Kap off of a Geno’s wing twice in less than a week…obviously he doesn’t care about those analytics lol…

Or he just doesn't like the guy and is looking for any excuse to demote him?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's less about Kap's production or consistency with regard to production and more about him just sorta looking lost way too often. That probably partly comes down to coaching and the line combos, sure, but he can't look as bad as he does as often as he does. Not at 25.

If they could get him someone like prime Dupuis or prime Hagelin to play his opposite and let him do his thing when he comes to cheating up ice and trying to create chances off the rush or breakaways, that'd be great. But he's in this weird jack of all trades style, reminds me a bit of Zucker, where he's just accomplishing nothing.

Pick a style and stick to it. Either be that Dupuis/Hagelin forechecker and puckhound, which means we'll need another scorer to play his opposite, or be that scorer yourself.

 

[Darren McCord]

Pick a style and stick to it. Either be that Dupuis/Hagelin forechecker and puckhound, which means we'll need another scorer to play his opposite, or be that scorer yourself.

I think the team keeps asking him to be a different player. He looks terrible on any line with Carter because he's asked to due all the dirty work. Then with Geno he is suppose to shoot. Then with TB he is asked to defend. And they actually put him in all those situation during one games.

McGinn - Geno - Kap
DOC - Geno - Kap

Are two lines I think would do well but will never happen.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the team keeps asking him to be a different player. He looks terrible on any line with Carter because he's asked to due all the dirty work. Then with Geno he is suppose to shoot. Then with TB he is asked to defend. And they actually put him in all those situation during one games.

McGinn - Geno - Kap
DOC - Geno - Kap

Are two lines I think would do well but will never happen.

I don't really think DOC (or Zoho) are scoring line guys now or in the future. I'd be happy if they settled into being effective, consistent 4th liners.

But agree about Kap. Either it's a mental thing within himself where he's trying to do too much and fill too many roles at once or the coaching staff is pulling him in several different directions--either way, he's a mess way too often.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't really think DOC (or Zoho) are scoring line guys now or in the future. I'd be happy if they settled into being effective, consistent 4th liners.

But agree about Kap. Either it's a mental thing within himself where he's trying to do too much and fill too many roles at once or the coaching staff is pulling him in several different directions--either way, he's a mess way too often.

I think DOC could be a good retriever and possession guy. A bigger Simon. A guy who's possess and plays smart with some speed. You ask him to do the dirty work. Zohorna could be a good scoring third liner. I think he would be a terrific fit with TB and McGinn over ZAR.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just because he doesn't have a special teams role doesn't mean he shouldn't. He was a fine PKer for Toronto. Sully just loves his role players too much. Kap shouldn't be moved unless its for an upgrade. He most definitely shouldnt be moved to make room for erod.

Kap and Zucker should be 2 of the guys we part ways with to make room for that upgrade.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think DOC could be a good retriever and possession guy. A bigger Simon. A guy who's possess and plays smart with some speed. You ask him to do the dirty work. Zohorna could be a good scoring third liner. I think he would be a terrific fit with TB and McGinn over ZAR.

Maybe. I just don't think very highly of any of our younger guys to be honest. Are they NHLers? Maybe. Are they gonna amount to anything more than like, Kuhnhackl-caliber guys? I would be surprised, pleasantly so.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Just for clarification; Being a Kuhnhackl-caliber guy isn't a bad thing. Cheap, serviceable 4th liners are needed. I think they (DOC and Zoho in this case) probably have a higher ceiling than Kuhn ended up reaching, but in reality not by much.

 

[Trade]

Malkin’s line is what has to be figured out. The rest of the forward lines should fall into place afterwards. Thing is, outside of Guentzel-Rust, what winger combo would people even be happy with flanking Geno? We know what Sully would trot out assuming they’re fully healthy (Zuck/Kap) but I personally have little faith in that trio.

 

[ColePens]

I will say a couple things work on the powerplay, but they only use it occasionally.

1) @Gurglesons will know this one... they've been running the Letang SJ Stanley Cup GWG play on the powerplay. Sid will be on the left side of the ice. Good skating/rotation among the players. Letang starts creeping in and Sid goes around the net to the strong side and makes the pass to Letang. SJ Cup Final GWG.

2) When Sid/G keep MOVING, it works. When they stand still - it doesn't. it's that simple. If they keep moving, almost always they get open.


Other than that - MAD props to Jarry. Props to Sid. Props to Letang.

 

[Pens x]

We've lost nothing from signing Simon and ZAR. They were on short-term low-money deals and do well enough in their roles, even if I think we could do better.

Losing McCann was another calculated gamble which allowed us to move Tanev's contract (and replace it with a cheaper McGinn), and Rodrigues has replaced his production for a 3rd of his cap hit. I had issues with some of these depth moves over the summer but they're all working out well.

I don't see how you interpret this as a loss...then again I don't understand much that you're griping about while we're 15-2.

ZAR, Simon, and DeSmith are trash, regardless of our record.

 

[Pens x]

I think you're much to angry with Hextall.

You can go back a page and see ways to get a backup and reasons DeSmith is not trusted within the coaching staff. (He was pulled after the 1st when Jarry already had a heavy workload coming in).

I'm pretty confident that a backup is a top priority on the list of needs, lets just hope come playoff time he is not even needed

I hope sleepy realizes we need make a move asap. Jarry is going to get injured at some point.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Absolute lol at taking any Sully comments at face value.

 

[HandshakeLine]

“Players need to earn their spot!”

** benches and player who just scored**

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Anyone who doesn't assume we're trotting out Jake-Sid-Rust and Zucker-Geno-Kap when healthy is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Just for clarification; Being a Kuhnhackl-caliber guy isn't a bad thing. Cheap, serviceable 4th liners are needed. I think they (DOC and Zoho in this case) probably have a higher ceiling than Kuhn ended up reaching, but in reality not by much.

Lest we forget Kuhnhackl played 24 post season games for a Cup winning squad.​

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

ZAR, Simon, and DeSmith are trash, regardless of our record.

You do nothing but trash the GM of team who's 15-2 in their last 17 and has by all accounts made a lot more good, substantial moves than questionable ones.

The best you can muster up is 3 impending UFAs who make a hair above 4.5 mil combined vs...the successes of Carter, Rodrigues, Jarry, Heinen, and McGinn.

Easy to see which side of the ledger Hextall's on. Since we know you were advocating for Jarry to be moved in the off-season, it's easy to see which side of the ledger you're on too. You throw a lot of rocks from that glass house.

 

[Peat]

I mean Sullivan is the one complaining …he’s moved Kap off of a Geno’s wing twice in less than a week…obviously he doesn’t care about those analytics lol…

*waves at the thread* He's not the only though, innit. Most people commenting on it agree with the decision. You brought up a quote criticising his play, you're saying you don't agree with it?

And I am possibly overarguing my case. I'm not saying he was definitely 100% wrong, or those who liked the move are wrong either. I'm saying it's complicated. I'm saying perhaps we should take a step back and look at it again in a dispassionate light before getting too set on Kapanen being this big negative with no positives. He's clearly got room to improve his impact on the game shift by shift but his production is worth the minutes and worth some sort of patience.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Can't believe some of us wanted DeSmith to be the starter

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He’s still the best in the world, isn’t he?

Yeah, Rust really is.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

“Players need to earn their spot!”

** benches and player who just scored**

Accountability? What does that even mean in this era?

 

[Gurglesons]

*waves at the thread* He's not the only though, innit. Most people commenting on it agree with the decision. You brought up a quote criticising his play, you're saying you don't agree with it?

And I am possibly overarguing my case. I'm not saying he was definitely 100% wrong, or those who liked the move are wrong either. I'm saying it's complicated. I'm saying perhaps we should take a step back and look at it again in a dispassionate light before getting too set on Kapanen being this big negative with no positives. He's clearly got room to improve his impact on the game shift by shift but his production is worth the minutes and worth some sort of patience.

I don’t really get why people are hard on Kapanen.