Post-Game Talk: |Pens win vs Jackets | Night at the Sidbury

[Andy99]

Why are we prioritising the guy with 0 points in 7 over the guy with 7 in 7?



I feel like ERod's shown he can be a solid 3rd liner often enough but yeah, prioritising his one god season over Kapanen?

Even if I agreed with it, you've got to ask whether ERod is the answer to the top 6, or getting the best possible 3C, something where we've got a ton of options...

It’s not a matter of prioritizing….Kap’s a RFA and going to be looking for raise on $3.2 mil whereas you could likely get ERod below that offering him a multi year contract

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Accuse is such a harsh word. We're just celebrating the success of your side hustle.

I feel like there's a ton of focus on Kappy yet he still has 7 points in the last 9, 5 of them at 5v5. I'd agree he doesn't look magic but who does in the top 6 right now? They're all playing shinny right now and while he might be the easy move to make to spark things, I don't think he's doing a lot dramatically different from them. And I might be alone but I don't think the ERod version of Geno's line looked much better.

I'm beginning to think Kapanen gets moved this summer. He ticks a lot of the boxes for likely move - coach doesn't love him, nobody in the front office (bar Allvin) has any reputation riding on him, due a pay rise, could fetch a return to a future starved org. I'm not sure it would be the right move. Like Carter, I think a great last season means people are a lot more focused on the way he's not meeting expectations than the way he is.

I don't want to see Kapanen go because at his cost I think we would be hard pressed to do much better. I understand the knocks against him but I just really hope he can pull it together consistently and be the player that has wowed us in a good way in the past.

People want to see what want with him. People were ready to give up on Crosby and Geno. Hell I wanted to give up on Jarry. Just goes to show that its easy to beat a guy that isn't playing his best but a longer leash should be given. If some of us were GM's we'd be in trouble lol

The way I see it Kapanen controls his own destiny. If he can pull it together and give us a reason not to move him.............he stays.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I wouldn't trade him. No way. He is great depth and I would honestly play him over rust on the pp. He is the type of player teams add for depth at the deadline not trade away. ZAR should be moved for an upgrade.

Seems like I'm one of the few that would want to sell high on ERod. Fair enough. I'm not opposed to trading ZAR, but I doubt he carries that much value.

 

[Pens x]

It’s not a matter of prioritizing….Kap’s a RFA and going to be looking for raise on $3.2 mil whereas you could likely get ERod below that offering him a multi year contract

I think it would be a bad idea to sign Erod to a long term deal. It’s great he finally figured it out, but it’s still such a small sample size. He’s not a top 6 player.

 

[Darren McCord]

It’s not a matter of prioritizing….Kap’s a RFA and going to be looking for raise on $3.2 mil whereas you could likely get ERod below that offering him a multi year contract

Who is Malkin playing with next year then? Especially if Zucker is traded? I do not think Erod and Malkin will work long term

 

[Darren McCord]

Seems like I'm one of the few that would want to sell high on ERod. Fair enough. I'm not opposed to trading ZAR, but I doubt he carries that much value.

He probably carries almost as much as erod to be honest. He is an analytics darling.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Let’s be serious, if sleepy doesn’t find an NHL backup goalie, he will get a free pass because prices will be too high or something.

I think you're much to angry with Hextall.

You can go back a page and see ways to get a backup and reasons DeSmith is not trusted within the coaching staff. (He was pulled after the 1st when Jarry already had a heavy workload coming in).

I'm pretty confident that a backup is a top priority on the list of needs, lets just hope come playoff time he is not even needed

 

[Darren McCord]

I think it would be a bad idea to sign Erod to a long term deal. It’s great he finally figured it out, but it’s still such a small sample size. He’s not a top 6 player.

Id sign him long term as in 3 years if it came under 2. But it all depends on how this season goes. If he pops off again maybe that changes. I just see his ice time continue to drop along with his production

 

[Gurglesons]

Does Kapanen really have an argument of getting over 4.5 mil?

I know he isn’t a stud like some think, but I feel like his age, size, speed and ability to be a 40-50 pt guy even when looking bad is worth that.

 

[BHD]

Between work (3-11 shift) and COVID, I've totally forgotten about their last two games. Have there been any negative trends over the past month?

 

[Peat]

It’s not a matter of prioritizing….Kap’s a RFA and going to be looking for raise on $3.2 mil whereas you could likely get ERod below that offering him a multi year contract

Just because they've (maybe) got different contract demands, doesn't mean you aren't setting priorities about who's more important to keep here with the money available.

I don't want to see Kapanen go because at his cost I think we would be hard pressed to do much better. I understand the knocks against him but I just really hope he can pull it together consistently and be the player that has wowed us in a good way in the past.

People want to see what want with him. People were ready to give up on Crosby and Geno. Hell I wanted to give up on Jarry. Just goes to show that its easy to beat a guy that isn't playing his best but a longer leash should be given. If some of us were GM's we'd be in trouble lol

The way I see it Kapanen controls his own destiny. If he can pull it together and give us a reason not to move him.............he stays.

Impatience is rarely a virtue in NHL personnel decisions for sure. That said - as of today - I think you can make arguments both ways.

 

[Darren McCord]

Does Kapanen really have an argument of getting over 4.5 mil?

I know he isn’t a stud like some think, but I feel like his age, size, speed and ability to be a 40-50 pt guy even when looking bad is worth that.

I think rust last contract is a good comparable with a bump. I think 4 x 4 is fair for both sides what he has brought. And just like rust he will be 30 when its done, so he can sign a new contract

 

[BHD]

Does Kapanen really have an argument of getting over 4.5 mil?

I know he isn’t a stud like some think, but I feel like his age, size, speed and ability to be a 40-50 pt guy even when looking bad is worth that.

His contract is what it should be. What makes people want to criticize him is that fact that the organization traded notable assets to acquire him.

 

[Andy99]

Who is Malkin playing with next year then? Especially if Zucker is traded? I do not think Erod and Malkin will work long term

Alex Debrincat? Lol…idk, just someone who has a well rounded game and can actually put the puck in the net…it doesn’t have to be ERod…my point was only, I’d rather give ERod $2.5 mil next season than pay Kap $4.5 mil….

 

[Andy99]

Just because they've (maybe) got different contract demands, doesn't mean you aren't setting priorities about who's more important to keep here with the money available.



Impatience is rarely a virtue in NHL personnel decisions for sure. That said - as of today - I think you can make arguments both ways.

no, I mean it’s quite clearly who’s more important FOR THE MONEY we’ll be spending…you really can’t separate the two in a cap world…I mean if Kap was Marchand good for example, of course you pay him what you need to….but since he’s only a “good” player and ERod is a “good” player (wide parameters for this), and ERod brings more of what the coach wants and at a cost that’s less than Kap, the personnel decision strongly favors ERod if you have to choose between the two…

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You forgot donating McCann, signing Simon, and qualifying ZAR.

We've lost nothing from signing Simon and ZAR. They were on short-term low-money deals and do well enough in their roles, even if I think we could do better.

Losing McCann was another calculated gamble which allowed us to move Tanev's contract (and replace it with a cheaper McGinn), and Rodrigues has replaced his production for a 3rd of his cap hit. I had issues with some of these depth moves over the summer but they're all working out well.

I don't see how you interpret this as a loss...then again I don't understand much that you're griping about while we're 15-2.

 

[Darren McCord]

Alex Debrincat? Lol…idk, just someone who has a well rounded game and can actually put the puck in the net…it doesn’t have to be ERod…my point was only, I’d rather give ERod $2.5 mil next season than pay Kap $4.5 mil….

id rather pay kap for the potential upside with Geno and pay zoho and doc cheap to fill erods role.

in 79 games with pitt kap has 53pts while apparently also sucking

 

[Andy99]

id rather pay kap for the potential upside with Geno and pay zoho and doc cheap to fill erods role.

in 79 games with pitt kap has 53pts while apparently also sucking

we’ve seen him now with Geno for what, 40 games? There’s no “potential upside”…it is what it is at this point and what it is isn’t good enough…

 

[Zirakzigil]

Between work (3-11 shift) and COVID, I've totally forgotten about their last two games. Have there been any negative trends over the past month?

We give out odd man rushes like Oprah gives out gifts.

Defensive zone play was brutal against the Sens. Was slightly better last night.

 

[Peat]

Does Kapanen really have an argument of getting over 4.5 mil?

I know he isn’t a stud like some think, but I feel like his age, size, speed and ability to be a 40-50 pt guy even when looking bad is worth that.

Strome got 4.5m x 2 to UFA off a 59 in 70 season with not much before.

Cirelli 4.8m x 3 to FA off 44 in 68, again, not a huge amount more before

Bertuzzi, 4.75m x 2 to UFA off of two high 40s in low 70s (and an injury hit season)

Kappy's on pace for 48 in 82. So to give the anticipated answer, no. His almost smack on comparable for pace is Beauvillier at 4.15m right to UFA.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Obviously, no. But that doesn't mean ERod would start producing if injuries start pilling up again.

True. But he's done well for us so far this year, and I don't think he has an awful lot of trade value as an impending UFA anyway.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kap doesn't seem to fit all that great.

Good winger, but not making Malkin any better or getting more out of his talent because of Malkin. Doesn't have a special teams role.

Is he even an upgrade over Heinen or Rodrigues? I'd rather roll the dice with one of them at a lower cap hit and use Kap as trade bait.

 

[Peat]

no, I mean it’s quite clearly whose more important FOR THE MONEY we’ll be spending…you really can’t separate the two in a cap world…I mean if Kap was Marchand good for example, of course you pay him what you need to….but since he’s only a “good” player and ERod is a “good” player (wide parameters for this), and ERod brings more of what the coach wants and at a cost that’s less than Kap, the personnel decision strongly favors ERod if you have to choose between the two…

So you set a priority list that combines talent plus money, no?

Wilson's blog post talked about handing over Kapanen's money to ERod. If Erod comes in significantly cheaper, that changes things.

But even taking that into mind, given that

a) Kapanen is a lot more proven
b) Kapanen looks like an actual top six winger and not a talented centre out of position

I'm still inclined to think maybe I favour Kapanen.

we’ve seen him now with Geno for what, 40 games? There’s no “potential upside”…it is what it is at this point and what it is isn’t good enough…

This seems far too simplistic given the wide variance of Kapanen's time as a Penguin. I mean, this season's p/60 - 1.7. Nice but not shattering. Last season's - 2.82 - actually elite. Last season, Kapanen scores at a 2.97 p/60 with Geno. This season... Kapanen is still at 2.97 p/60 with Geno actually. And their on ice results are better. Which has me side-eying some of the complaints. We're cheering breaking up a combo scoring at 3.96 goals per 60 and with a 53% xGF. The results are stunning and logically we should be delighted with them.

But I think even if we ignore that and go on eyetest of the process rather than measuring the results, the idea that what we're seeing now from Geno-Kapanen is everything they can be doesn't hold up.

 

[Darren McCord]

we’ve seen him now with Geno for what, 40 games? There’s no “potential upside”…it is what it is at this point and what it is isn’t good enough…

a 50 pt winger isnt good enough? He is basically the same trajectory as rust. Slightly worse but very close.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Kap's a guy who probably deserves ~$4 million or so, but I don't think I want this team to be the team to hand him that kinda deal. He's a guy who seems like he's perpetually still trying to figure things out and hammer out his style/tendencies. Perpetual prospect brain.