Post-Game Talk: Pens win 5-4 - Can we finally say the scoring drought is over, please?

[ShadowSoldier89]

Season|Age||GP|GS|W|L|GA|SA|SV|SV%|GAA|SO
2008-09|24|SC|24|23|16|8|63|686|623|0.908|2.61|0
2009-10|25||13|13|7|6|37|339|302|0.891|2.78|1
2010-11|26||7|7|3|4|17|168|151|0.899|2.52|1
2011-12|27||6|6|2|4|26|157|131|0.834|4.63|0
2012-13|28||5|4|2|2|17|145|128|0.883|3.52|1
2013-14|29||13|10|7|6|32|378|346|0.915|2.4|2

Fleury has clearly struggled in the playoffs since winning the cup, however despite only beating the blue jackets last year he did manage better stats than the cup year. The quality of competition the cup year was really high, and his stats were still very good.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I have a friend flames fan.

Mentioned Letang being tied in points with Giordano

Honestly I was shocked when he responded.

Makes sense he's better.

I had to take a double take. So bam. Norris time

 

[Ugene Magic]

I have a friend flames fan.

Mentioned Letang being tied in points with Giordano

Honestly I was shocked when he responded.

Makes sense he's better.

I had to take a double take. So bam. Norris time

I'm not on the stats line per say for Geno and Sid, but I am for Letang. He deserves some well earned respect. Sucks injuries had to rob him of that when even then he was better than the actual winner.

 

[PensPlz]

I watch a lot of other team's play.. which is why i hate Penguin goalies. LJBH we have not had very many good ones over the years.

And having a perspective on goaltending that relies on the last 3 games is really short-sighted. Fleury has boned this team for the last 5 years.. horribly. More than any other goalie in the league has screwed over his current team. He gets zero respect until he gets something done in the playoffs. And beating the Columbus Blue Jackets - and only the Columbus Blue Jackets - doesn't really count to me.

Maybe you hate Penguin goalies because this teams doesn't insulate the goalie like a Rangers team does Hank, or the Habs to for Price. Maybe you don't have a Weber or Chara standing in front, clearing the paint for the goalie, and shutting down top lines. MAYBE, just MAYBE, the reason why the goalies on other teams are such stars are because they get a little help from the guys in front of them. Where as this team we don't even have a defensive structure, but yet, fail to mention the coaching or the players regarding that. JUST the goalie.

And if you think only Fleury "boned" us for the last 5 years, then there is no point arguing with you.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Thought the third line played decent.

Except when Adams was on it after he "earned" a promotion.

 

[cassius]

Season|Age||GP|GS|W|L|GA|SA|SV|SV%|GAA|SO
2008-09|24|SC|24|23|16|8|63|686|623|0.908|2.61|0
2009-10|25||13|13|7|6|37|339|302|0.891|2.78|1
2010-11|26||7|7|3|4|17|168|151|0.899|2.52|1
2011-12|27||6|6|2|4|26|157|131|0.834|4.63|0
2012-13|28||5|4|2|2|17|145|128|0.883|3.52|1
2013-14|29||13|10|7|6|32|378|346|0.915|2.4|2

Fleury has clearly struggled in the playoffs since winning the cup, however despite only beating the blue jackets last year he did manage better stats than the cup year. The quality of competition the cup year was really high, and his stats were still very good.

Can't really compare. SV% has steadily increased since 2009-2010 - it's a goalies league now

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'm not on the stats line per say for Geno and Sid, but I am for Letang. He deserves some well earned respect. Sucks injuries had to rob him of that when even then he was better than the actual winner.

Top 3 in Norris votes would be fine with me. Deserves major recognition. A top offensive defenseman with great defensive skills. A shame Maatta is out this year or are team would be very scary

 

[IcedCapp]

Scuderi was on for three of the Senators' four goals. That in and of itself isn't really a big issue, but I think it's more-significant when you look at the situation as a whole:

1) on Letang's penalty, the Pens had benched Bortuzzo for the previous kill, which was handled entirely by Scuderi - Letang and Despres - Martin, the Pens opened with Scuderi - Bortuzzo, despite both Martin and Despres being fresh, and both having decent games (and Bortuzzo had been having another horrific showing). Scuderi - Bortuzzo did what they're wont to do, and a goal was scored.

2) on goal 3, Despres was benched so that Bortuzzo could take a dzone face off with Scuderi. Results were as expected.

This team, as it did under Bylsma, lacks any self awareness. This is not me bagging on people to prop Despres up - he's had his faults for sure - but no coach with a brain would have benched him for Bortuzzo given the previous 50 minutes of play (or the previous 6 months). Pouliot would have been a better choice m

Further, this team continues to misunderstand what it has in Rob Scuderi. He is not a 21 minute a night dman. I don't know if he ever was. His ice time this year is worse than Orpik's under Bylsma.

Moreover, this weird fetish the team has with playing Scuderi for the full two minute PK might be working in February, but I promise it's going to cost them in their first round exit.

This team has an infatuation with certain players and it puts them in key situations above all else.

I truly believe Rob Scuderi has been a serviceable 3rd pairing dman. The advanced metrics don't really support that, but I think he's been good enough to play 10-15 minutes a night on a cup contender.

But he's playing 18-20 ES minutes. Yes, Ehrhoff is injured, but it would be possible to get by without him playing those minutes. Worse, it's not like he's preventing goals in those minutes. They're still happening.

I would go with

Martin - Letang
Ehrhoff - Despres
Scuderi - Pouliot

Let the 3rd pairing play limited, sheltered minutes at ES, and let Scuderi pick up extra TOI as the top PKer and Pouliot extra time on the PP. it slots everyone in better roles/times.

 

[MrBurghundy]

oh ok Fleury's in his mid 40's, thanks for the info

Although Brodeur came close to winning another in 2012, not to shabby huh?

You clearly missed the point. The point is that past success is not always correlate to future success, nor does it give you a pass for sucking in the playoffs by and large since.

I'm not a Fleury basher, and he's done great this season, but if your only argument boils down to he won a cup once in the past, your argument sucks.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Scuderi was on for three of the Senators' four goals. That in and of itself isn't really a big issue, but I think it's more-significant when you look at the situation as a whole:

1) on Letang's penalty, the Pens had benched Bortuzzo for the previous kill, which was handled entirely by Scuderi - Letang and Despres - Martin, the Pens opened with Scuderi - Bortuzzo, despite both Martin and Despres being fresh, and both having decent games (and Bortuzzo had been having another horrific showing). Scuderi - Bortuzzo did what they're wont to do, and a goal was scored.

2) on goal 3, Despres was benched so that Bortuzzo could take a dzone face off with Scuderi. Results were as expected.

This team, as it did under Bylsma, lacks any self awareness. This is not me bagging on people to prop Despres up - he's had his faults for sure - but no coach with a brain would have benched him for Bortuzzo given the previous 50 minutes of play (or the previous 6 months). Pouliot would have been a better choice m

Further, this team continues to misunderstand what it has in Rob Scuderi. He is not a 21 minute a night dman. I don't know if he ever was. His ice time this year is worse than Orpik's under Bylsma.

Moreover, this weird fetish the team has with playing Scuderi for the full two minute PK might be working in February, but I promise it's going to cost them in their first round exit.

This team has an infatuation with certain players and it puts them in key situations above all else.

I truly believe Rob Scuderi has been a serviceable 3rd pairing dman. The advanced metrics don't really support that, but I think he's been good enough to play 10-15 minutes a night on a cup contender.

But he's playing 18-20 ES minutes. Yes, Ehrhoff is injured, but it would be possible to get by without him playing those minutes. Worse, it's not like he's preventing goals in those minutes. They're still happening.

I would go with

Martin - Letang
Ehrhoff - Despres
Scuderi - Pouliot

Let the 3rd pairing play limited, sheltered minutes at ES, and let Scuderi pick up extra TOI as the top PKer and Pouliot extra time on the PP. it slots everyone in better roles/times.

We never agree on these things, and I agree 100%. If the org / HCMJ had a master plan to let Adams and Scuds eat minutes in the regular season, and then scratched Adams in the post season, and played the pairings above to minimize Scuds TOI, then it would certainly make me feel a lot better about what I'm seeing now. I am encouraged in how MJ tends to shorten his bench in close games late. Hopefully we'll see a roster-wide version of this in the post season. Considering a top 4 of Martin/Letang and Ehrhoff/Despres could eat tons of minutes, and in any ES situation, there's no reason for Scuds to get more than 15 in a close game.

What's also maddening is how often Despres/Scuds is out there with the 4th line for Dzone faceoffs.

If any of that happens in the post season, we won't make it out of the first round.

 

[Night Shift]

You clearly missed the point. The point is that past success is not always correlate to future success, nor does it give you a pass for sucking in the playoffs by and large since.

I'm not a Fleury basher, and he's done great this season, but if your only argument boils down to he won a cup once in the past, your argument sucks.

I don't recall arguing. My post was in response to Nasty Nick claim that he never accomplished anything in playoffs. Fleury is a proven winner and has the hardware. To say he can't do it again or doesn't deserve any respect then I'd say you're about as smart as Nasty Nick which is not a compliment. The Pens probably won't win it this year but it's not going to be because of Fleury (just like last season which he had a decent postseason).

 

[IcedCapp]

We never agree on these things, and I agree 100%. If the org / HCMJ had a master plan to let Adams and Scuds eat minutes in the regular season, and then scratched Adams in the post season, and played the pairings above to minimize Scuds TOI, then it would certainly make me feel a lot better about what I'm seeing now. I am encouraged in how MJ tends to shorten his bench in close games late. Hopefully we'll see a roster-wide version of this in the post season. Considering a top 4 of Martin/Letang and Ehrhoff/Despres could eat tons of minutes, and in any ES situation, there's no reason for Scuds to get more than 15 in a close game.

What's also maddening is how often Despres/Scuds is out there with the 4th line for Dzone faceoffs.

If any of that happens in the post season, we won't make it out of the first round.

I'm sorry we never agree on things I always look forward to your posts.

If the playoffs come and Scuds and Adams have significantly-reduced roles, I will applaud MJ's dedication to the plan. If not, I'm going to be as critical of him as I was of Bylsma.

As to your point about the 4th line and ScuDespres, totally agree. I love Despres, so I want him to play a lot, but not even his magnificence can overcome that possession vortex.

What's bad, though, is who DO you play with the 4th? Pouliot and Bortuzzo? Nightmare. And it seems like a waste of Letang and Martin.

Need a better 4th line...

 

[Asuna]

Driving home from work I was thinking about last nights game, and other thoughts on the Pens:

The Penguins seem to have some serious player evaluation issues. Maybe not with management, because JR seems to know who to target and who would fit with the team, but with coaching. I hate to keep bashing Sill/Adams (I feel like it's all I ever do lol), but when is it ever a good idea to double shift a (marginal) fourth line player with the top line (Sill), and an aging, at best, PK specialist on the third line (Adams). That is a serious mismanagement of players and only puts the team in a position to fail.

Another thing about that fourth line, at the end of the game, 4-4 tie, they have Sill - Sutter - Adams on the ice. Really Johnston? What the hell is with your infatuation with having your 4th line on the ice to 'protect' the lead. This kind of (outdated) thinking goes with the thought that your 4th line has to be defensive. Sure, that would work IF YOU HAD ACTUAL DEFENSIVE PLAYERS ON YOUR FOURTH LINE. But no, you have marginal PK specialists on the 4th line, with a decent face-off man.

Another problem, is the usage of Scuderi. I won't go into that because IcedCapp can put it more eloquently than I can, as he did above.

Sutter, as useless as he may seem now, I think he'll be fine come playoff time. He showed that last year, and I expect that to continue. However, if JR can find a good deal for him he should pull the trigger. But I doubt that will happen.

No way Kunitz is traded. Bffs with Crosby 4ever.

As a fan, it's becoming increasingly frustrating to see the coaches make these same idiotic moves, and I can't honestly think that someone that gets paid to make these decisions can't see the ineptitude of these players. I really hope that this is all some 'grand plan' of Johnston, or else we really don't have much hope as an organization, if these coaches keep relying on these marginal players in key situations and propping up other semi useless players for what they think they could be, or were in the past.

 

[Sam Spade]

I get this and I agree that things need to change on the roster and behind the bench, but at the same time, acting like we should forgo the playoffs (not that you're saying it, mind you) boggles the mind. We do not need to blow the team up, we don't need to tank for a high pick, and we don't need to make panicky, short-term moves.

There's potential enough on this roster and mid-season slumps on championship squads are not unheard of-- rather the opposite, I think.

Again, it's probably not likely we'll win, but you can say that about EVERY playoff team. The odds of winning the Stanley Cup are never in anyone's favor in the modern era. There's just too much parity, and players are way more talented and conditioned than previous eras. Add into that mix the fact that unexpected calls and bounces (or god-forbid, injuries) in the post-season can alter everything, and you've got no easy favorites anywhere.

Great post!

If the Pens played in the Finals against the Flames would anyone be shocked if the Flames won. So little separates teams today.

First hurdle is over, making the dance, next hurdle is winning game one of the first series, and so on and so on.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I don't recall arguing. My post was in response to Nasty Nick claim that he never accomplished anything in playoffs. Fleury is a proven winner and has the hardware. To say he can't do it again or doesn't deserve any respect then I'd say you're about as smart as Nasty Nick which is not a compliment. The Pens probably won't win it this year but it's not going to be because of Fleury (just like last season which he had a decent postseason).

I also don't recall saying he doesn't deserve respect.

 

[wopper]

Many of us have been hoping for around 5 years now that the regular season coaching is going to magically change in the postseason "when it matters." It hasn't so far and I can't say that I'm optimistic that it will.

It's beginning to be clear to me (after 5 years) that the way the coach is using the players right now is because he thinks that's the best use of his players to help this team win. There's a lot of flaws with his useage, IMO, but I don't think he will magically start using Scuderi correctly. Kunitz is on Crosby's hip no matter what, Despres will get benched for important situations, Scuderi will be used 2minutes on the PK (ok maybe not a full 2min, but a LOT), Bennett will be blamed for any lack in production of Sutter... etc.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think this team is best served running Pouliot-Letang on PP1 in the playoffs with Poo QB'ing/bringing the puck up ice. He is fantastic at it. As good as Letang has been this season, he is turrrible at it. A big reason why the PP has sucked imo.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Let's get some pre-game talk going. Might as well do it here.

 

[penguins2946*]

It's about damn time, it's not like our PP has gone like 1 for 30 in the last 10 games.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

It's about damn time, it's not like our PP has gone like 1 for 30 in the last 10 games.

Agreed.

Also

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Where is the GDT?

 

[WayneSid9987]

I dunno^

Sill is out. Downie in.
Same lineup vs Detroit.

 

[Asuna]

I dunno^

Sill is out. Downie in.
Same lineup vs Detroit.

Thank God.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

That should be a decent 4th line for a change

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I hate afternoon games. And Rossi doing pregame? Channel 11 must be desperate