Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Rangers | loss | Blowout loss

[Ugene Magic]

So f***ing stupid to say coaching isn't the issue especially as a pens fan. When all our recent cups have come from coaching change that year.

Coaching change and additions to the roster, and a pretty heavily deep team. None of which this team is.

This is that year where they can't lose "anyone" to injury to be full flight, but here we are.

I mean, they pretty much already do the north/south game with mainly only Geno's doing the East/West game. The only function terminating their efforts is held into the players efforts, decision making and puck handling skills. I see bad puck handling in all zones. Self inflicted one's. That doesn't scream system.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Sullivan's man crushes on Carter and Dumo has gone from comical to down right pathetic at this point, he's either incredibly delusional or the biggest f***ing blind mark on the planet.

 

[mpp9]

Sullivan's man crushes on Carter and Dumo has gone from comical to down right pathetic at this point, he's either incredibly delusional or the biggest f***ing blind mark on the planet.

POJ has had his struggles so I imagine most coaches would be treating Dumo’s usage similarly.

Carter is just strange. Like, we don’t have much to replace him with until Bonino’s back, but the fact he won’t at least try something else is nuts. Be political and call it a maintenance day.

 

[Icarium]

The team would hold leads more often if it had the first clue how to properly defend in the neutral zone. It's either killing teams with forecheck - more and more rarely the slower and older it gets every year - or allowing teams to cruise completely unopposed into our zone once they get past the impotent forecheck. Add to that the frequent inability to press the opposition D-men once they enter our zone and it is not exactly a surprise that the only teams which allow more shots than the Pens are five teams that are openly tanking. Good goaltending would mask those issues to an extent but they would still be blatantly obvious.

Explaining it all away with individual mistakes is basically repeating Sully's dumb "We didn't get to our game" mantra. "Our game" isn't good enough more and often because it doesn't fit the roster we have and bizarrely, the players our genius coach seems most fond of fit his system less and less with each passing game. If that's not a sign of bad coaching, I don't know what it.

 

[BusinessGoose]

"as we come down the stretch, and currently in a playoff spot, we might rest some of our key role players on the team"

Then bench carter and dumo here and there

Face saved

Season saved

I'm just a keyboard expert, though

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What can you even do but laugh anymore? Sure, Dumo and Carter suck absolute shit analytically *and* as far as the eye test goes, but they're actually f***ing awesome at a secret third thing. Industry secrets though, very hush hush.

This team's infatuation with Dumoulin and Carter in addition to the miserable situation in goal is insane. I hope they continue to spiral way out of the playoff picture, but I've assumed the entire time they'd squeak in and still do.

-edit- Imagine if Buffalo, Washington, and Ottawa didn't also suck absolute shit. This team would probably be a good handful of games out already. But the other teams around 'em just keep losing too.

 

[Ugene Magic]

At some point we all have to come to the conclusion this team just isn't good enough. Their prospect pool isn't deep enough or good enough to make up for this teams deficiencies. They were heavily dependent on what they could or willing to do at the TDL making this pretty much a lost cause. I know I will not pass up doing anything else to watch these games. That also includes less on here. Life goes on...

 

[DearDiary]

The problem stems from the Pens being soft. Other teams players dance around with their heads down because there's no danger of being stepped up on, so they can play with a lot of pace. Yesterday Miller saw Malkin flying towards him while stationary, he didn't even move, just moved the puck to the side because he knew Malkin would just do a fly by. Zucker, Rakell and Archibald are the only players I see making an effort to finish their checks. I could tell the only player the Rangers were aprehensive of holding the puck too long against was Zucker.

Same thing by the defence. I only ever see Pettersson clearing the front of the net. Other teams players just camp around. Dumoulin and POJ have tunnel vision and constantly lose their guy behind them because they're looking to see where the play is going. I still think Pettersson is the Pens best defencemen in terms of his gap, positioning, stick lanes, clearing the net and ability to read plays. His mistakes come from underestimating his lack of athleticism to get where he knows he should be.

I think a coaching change would help solely because it would throw out other teams perception and game planning against the Pens. Because all these losses the Pens are getting beat the same way

 

[TNT87]

I'm beyond complaining. What's been allowed to continue and fester is beyond ridiculous.

If the majority of fans feel what I feel right now which is not anger it's disinterest. Then they are f*****. The team deserves to miss the playoffs and I hope the attendance drops.

If the ownership doesn't give a s*** neither will I.

I'm feeling apathetic as well. This team is directionless. There is no plan but that doesn't come as a surprise since Hextall couldn't give an answer when ownership initially asked him that question last year. I will continue to have a hopeless feeling with this team until everyone in the coaching staff and front office is gone.

 

[Andy99]

The problem stems from the Pens being soft. Other teams players dance around with their heads down because there's no danger of being stepped up on, so they can play with a lot of pace. Yesterday Miller saw Malkin flying towards him while stationary, he didn't even move, just moved the puck to the side because he knew Malkin would just do a fly by. Zucker, Rakell and Archibald are the only players I see making an effort to finish their checks. I could tell the only player the Rangers were aprehensive of holding the puck too long against was Zucker.

Same thing by the defence. I only ever see Pettersson clearing the front of the net. Other teams players just camp around. Dumoulin and POJ have tunnel vision and constantly lose their guy behind them because they're looking to see where the play is going. I still think Pettersson is the Pens best defencemen in terms of his gap, positioning, stick lanes, clearing the net and ability to read plays. His mistakes come from underestimating his lack of athleticism to get where he knows he should be.

I think a coaching change would help solely because it would throw out other teams perception and game planning against the Pens. Because all these losses the Pens are getting beat the same way

There’s a lot of truth to this, but I don’t think Geno or Sid have ever played a tight checking game and they’re especially not going to do so at ages 35-36…as a whole though, yeah, we don’t play a system that is tight checking and we’re not up on opposing players, especially their defenders, forcing them to make mistakes…we play a very passive D system..I have to say I think this is on Sullivan and not the players, but it’s hard to know…management got the type of players Sullivan wanted…if we change the approach, do we have those players? It’s worth finding out because it’s not working as is…

 

[Terrapin]

The problem stems from the Pens being soft. Other teams players dance around with their heads down because there's no danger of being stepped up on, so they can play with a lot of pace. Yesterday Miller saw Malkin flying towards him while stationary, he didn't even move, just moved the puck to the side because he knew Malkin would just do a fly by. Zucker, Rakell and Archibald are the only players I see making an effort to finish their checks. I could tell the only player the Rangers were aprehensive of holding the puck too long against was Zucker.

Same thing by the defence. I only ever see Pettersson clearing the front of the net. Other teams players just camp around. Dumoulin and POJ have tunnel vision and constantly lose their guy behind them because they're looking to see where the play is going. I still think Pettersson is the Pens best defencemen in terms of his gap, positioning, stick lanes, clearing the net and ability to read plays. His mistakes come from underestimating his lack of athleticism to get where he knows he should be.

I think a coaching change would help solely because it would throw out other teams perception and game planning against the Pens. Because all these losses the Pens are getting beat the same way

Wait, I've been told here for years that physicality means nothing. All we need is speed speed speed! Well, we don't have that anymore either.

 

[TimmyD]

Wait, I've been told here for years that physicality means nothing. All we need is speed speed speed! Well, we don't have that anymore either.

No, you’ve been told having a guys who’s sole purpose is being a face puncher and taking retaliatory cheap shots at guys means nothing and is useless… and that’s still very much true… having guys who can actually play productive shifts of hockey and also punish the opponent physically definitely aren’t useless, but they also don’t grow on trees either

 

[Pens x]

How some of you are beginning to feel now is how I’ve felt since they announced Sleepy was hired…it’s been an exhausting 2+ years with that dumbass wrecking this team, and Sully continuing to be an idiot.

Sully should have been banished after the Habs playoff series; Hextall should never have been hired in the first place.

 

[Terrapin]

No, you’ve been told having a guys who’s sole purpose is being a face puncher and taking retaliatory cheap shots at guys means nothing and is useless… and that’s still very much true… having guys who can actually play productive shifts of hockey and also punish the opponent physically definitely aren’t useless, but they also don’t grow on trees either

Wrong. For starters, I don't believe I've ever once called for a team of Jon Scott's. I have advocated for more physical players who can punch faces if needed. Guys like Wilson, Jeannot, a Foligno, etc. And each time I was told 'he doesn't fit our system!'

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think they're losing purely because they're soft as baby shit. I think they're losing because outside of like 5 guys on the entire roster--shit, the entire organization (FO + coaching staff)--everyone is varying degrees of underwhelming or downright f***ing abysmal at their job.

The team being pathetic when it comes to physicality is just a sweet bonus!

 

[DearDiary]

I don't think they're losing purely because they're soft as baby shit. I think they're losing because outside of like 5 guys on the entire roster--shit, the entire organization (FO + coaching staff)--everyone is varying degrees of underwhelming or downright f***ing abysmal at their job.

The team being pathetic when it comes to physicality is just a sweet bonus!

Being soft means you're giving the other team a lot of time, space and open routes to make plays, greatly lowering their chances of making mistakes. You know the other team has gameplanned you when they stand still while your teams player has them lined up.

A solid checking player that comes to mind is Tanev, who was always aggressive on his defensive assignments. He created a lot of chances simply from making the high defender panic. That's huge in a static playoff game, where everyone is looking for that 1 panic mistake.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

After watching Bruins / Buffalo... Sully should be fired as soon as possible.

Speed doesn't matter if your Players have no idea where they should be on the ice...

Watching that game....

The Bruins gave away no crazy 3 v 1's... they gave away a 2 v 1 but Defender pushed them outside to low % area
The Bruins don't just speed into zone with no support, they slowed down just a step to get 2 or 3 into zone.
The Bruins forecheck dump is so much better than anything the Pens do, it actually has a purpose / position.
The Bruins rarely over skate the goal, on every attack 1 or 2 Bruins are in the crease...
The Bruins constantly skate around/above the crease don't just stand their either....
The Bruins don't sell out to score and leave free 2 v 1. Defense was always "holding the correct line"
Oh, and there Goalie made his 2-3 above average saves...

We can barely do any of this for 1 period of a game. Everything about our systems, the players in the system, etc. is bad right now.

Hextall should be gone because whomever was in charge from TDL on has zero clue. The Players and Coaches system does not mesh at all.

Sully and assistants should be gone. We've changed out his assistants and it's still rotten. Our players aren't coached up to be in right position or play smartly.

I'm not saying we'll win but anything else will be better than our shitty / disorganized 5v5 play, power play, defense, and goal tending.

 

[Andy99]

Being soft means you're giving the other team a lot of time, space and open routes to make plays, greatly lowering their chances of making mistakes. You know the other team has gameplanned you when they stand still while your teams player has them lined up.

A solid checking player that comes to mind is Tanev, who was always aggressive on his defensive assignments. He created a lot of chances simply from making the high defender panic. That's huge in a static playoff game, where everyone is looking for that 1 panic mistake.

Yes, what doesn’t get acknowledged is how much this is scheme related…it’s not just an individual player deciding to do it when you’re there is a board battle or something…go check out how the Rangers changed how they played us from the first two games…they did not play one on one coverage as much earlier…last two games they had one on one matchups and everyone clogged the NZ and when/if we got thru with the puck, they tightly checked their man, which is playoff hockey…we haven’t even started playing playoff hockey…do we have the speed to get on opposing players quickly and be hard to play against them? Not looking good but it doesn’t matter if Sullivan refuses to change how they play

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Team should've cleaned house in 2020 when JR was years into his psychosis and Sully's decisions in back to back playoffs cost this team any shot. But Mario and his pedo-adjacent billionaire bud cared even less than FSG does, if you can even imagine that.

Hell, if JR didn't shit his pants and throw a tantrum before stomping off, I'd bet he's still here f***ing things up right now.

 

[BusinessGoose]

TBH, Mario and Co were checked out by 2015...they couldn't find a buyer.. Then accidentally won two cups real quick and held on for even more money

Exploring in 2015

Mario Lemieux, Ron Burkle exploring sale of the Penguins - Inside Pittsburgh Sports

Everything the Penguins have done this summer has been financially driven and here's the reason why as believed: From Bob McKenzie of TSN: [Pittsburgh Penguin owners Ron Burkle and Mario Lemieux have hired Morgan Stanley to explore the possibility of selling some or all of the NHL franchise. It...

insidepittsburghsports.com

Then canceling early 2016 "at least 700mil but burkle nixed it"

Mario Lemieux mad over messed-up Penguins sale

Hockey legend Mario Lemieux is miffed at billionaire investor Ron Burkle for messing up the sale of the Pittsburgh Penguins, The Post has learned. After six months of trying to sell the team, the t…

nypost.com

Sold to FSG for about 900mil

I'm not saying anything bad about mario and co and i don't blame them for the team today. But they already wanted out, and FSG doesn't give a shit. So we're f***ed.

 

[The Old Master]

Watching that game....

The Bruins gave away no crazy 3 v 1's... they gave away a 2 v 1 but Defender pushed them outside to low % area
The Bruins don't just speed into zone with no support, they slowed down just a step to get 2 or 3 into zone.
The Bruins forecheck dump is so much better than anything the Pens do, it actually has a purpose / position.
The Bruins rarely over skate the goal, on every attack 1 or 2 Bruins are in the crease...
The Bruins constantly skate around/above the crease don't just stand their either....
The Bruins don't sell out to score and leave free 2 v 1. Defense was always "holding the correct line"
Oh, and there Goalie made his 2-3 above average saves...

this is hockey 101 every player on the team knows this and yet.

 

[ronduguayshair]

So then coaching has zero effect? Then why defend Sullivan at all and act like he's a good coach when any random dude with high school hockey coaching experience can get the same results since it's 100% dependent on the players and not the guy behind the bench? After all, coaching ability doesn't affect results, right? Just whatever coach has awesome goaltending?

Selective reader comprehension left to be desired.

Yea, that penalty caused us to lose 6-0.

It certainly changed the momentum. Watch the games. Outside of pushing a narrative you don't offer much insight.

 

[Pem]

Sullivan's man crushes on Carter and Dumo has gone from comical to down right pathetic at this point, he's either incredibly delusional or the biggest f***ing blind mark on the planet.

Name the replacements for each.

 

[Gurglesons]

Name the replacements for each.

At this point we don’t have one for Dumo due to injuries.

Heinen - Poehling - Granlund
Hallander - DOC - Archibald.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Name the replacements for each.

I think this thing could take over passing duties from center Jeff Carter

And we can swap defenseman Brian Dumoulin with this