Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Rangers | loss | Blowout loss

[Victor Z]

Bourque should understand that its tough to be a lone wolf in the physical department. You are a lone wolf, will be singled out for destruction by the oppositions pack.

soff team... one guy isn’t changing that

That's why bringing in some talentless jarhead like Ryan Reaves was never going to be any kind of solution, even if our wussy coach was willing to utilize him.

I'm well aware that there was never any thought of replacing Sully prior to last season, however:

That's also why I was advocating for someone like Gallant to replace Sullivan although that was hardly a fashionable take. One PLAYER isn't going to turn a soft team of wimps into demons on ice, but one COACH can "change the culture" (to use a fashionable phrase) by demanding that this team -- as a WHOLE -- play like every other team is allowed to and not just stand there while the other team steamrolls their goalie, or while their captain (or anyone else) lays on the ice after a cheap shot to the head, and so on, and so on....

Maybe Gallant wouldn't have accomplished that goal here, because perhaps this soft, weak, country club team is terminally soft and weak until a whole new generation of players (and a new coach) arrives, but of the available options Gallant had the best chance.

"Changing the culture" in the case of the Penguins means more than just doing so in the room. It means doing so on the ice as well (the Game Managers), which is one more reason why bringing in a token goon like Reaves or Laraque is totally pointless and even counterproductive -- that goon won't be allowed to even sneeze without going to the penalty box.

The coach has to be willing to endure the mountain of penalties that will accumulate before the refs finally move into "we can't call EVERYTHING" mode -- which is exactly their philosophy regarding any physical team which beats up on the Pens with the refs' blessings.

 

[ronduguayshair]

No it’s not a stars job to carry the team. Not even Mario in his prime could do that.

But if you want to keep the feedback respective to this particular game than yes the stars were not good.

I totally disagree. It is the stars job

 

[ronduguayshair]

I know it doesn’t fit your agenda, but Sid had as much responsibility for goal 1 as Jarry and while Geno took the penalty, if Dumo makes an easy clear and Jarry stops a point blank shot, then the goal never happens…lots of players take penalties and it’s on the Pk and goalie to bail them and some times they don’t…hazards of a hockey game…after the first period, the forwards tried too hard to get back in the game because it was clear the D was awful and injured and the goalies sucked…tried too much and left repeated rush opportunities…end of the story for this game…you’re putting it all on Geno is incorrect as usual and part of your schtick…move on

I blamed the core. The leadership. That’s on sid.

Malkin took the penalty that blew our momentum. Not sid.

 

[Coastal Kev]

That's why bringing in some talentless jarhead like Ryan Reaves was never going to be any kind of solution, even if our wussy coach was willing to utilize him.

I'm well aware that there was never any thought of replacing Sully prior to last season, however:

That's also why I was advocating for someone like Gallant to replace Sullivan although that was hardly a fashionable take. One PLAYER isn't going to turn a soft team of wimps into demons on ice, but one COACH can "change the culture" (to use a fashionable phrase) by demanding that this team -- as a WHOLE -- play like every other team is allowed to and not just stand there while the other team steamrolls their goalie, or while their captain (or anyone else) lays on the ice after a cheap shot to the head, and so on, and so on....

Maybe Gallant wouldn't have accomplished that goal here, because perhaps this soft, weak, country club team is terminally soft and weak until a whole new generation of players (and a new coach) arrives, but of the available options Gallant had the best chance.

"Changing the culture" in the case of the Penguins means more than just doing so in the room. It means doing so on the ice as well (the Game Managers), which is one more reason why bringing in a token goon like Reaves or Laraque is totally pointless and even counterproductive -- that goon won't be allowed to even sneeze without going to the penalty box.

The coach has to be willing to endure the mountain of penalties that will accumulate before the refs finally move into "we can't call EVERYTHING" mode -- which is exactly their philosophy regarding any physical team which beats up on the Pens with the refs' blessings.

But you had Reaves leading a pack of Cole and others I can’t remember. Funny that sully had no use for Cole either. Cole was huge in both of those cups.

 

[Pancakes]

The problem with this team is there's a number of issues going on:

1) Jarry sucks since coming back from the injury.

2) Carter and Dumoulin suck and are causing goals against every single night

3) Granlund has not moved the needle at all since coming over. In fact I'm not so sure that our bottom six isn't worse now than it was. McGinn and Blueger might have actually been better than Granlund/Bonino, painful as that is to type.

4) Our bottom six scoring is still nonexistent. If our top six doesn't score, we don't win.

5) Sullivan seems unwilling or unable to recognize the issues. He's still running Jarry ragged hoping he can work his way through the struggles. On the surface that might make sense...if Jarry doesn't get going, we will sink in the playoffs. The problem is, his struggles now are costing us points. And our playoff spot is not secure. We might not get there if this keeps up. And meanwhile Sullivan also continues to throw Carter and Dumoulin out in high profile situations night after night.

6) At the org level, top to bottom, there's a severe issue with properly evaluating players. If Sullivan and Hextall both thought that Granlund, Carter, etc can help....what is causing them to think that way? They're clearly wrong. And some of these moves (Granlund) were obviously bad ideas even from the start. Why do bad moves keep being made?

7) Where is FSG in all this? What do they think of everything? Do they even understand the issues with the team? Is Hextall going to be fired? Would they consider removing Sullivan? Or are they going to let it burn and only make changes when they feel it in revenues?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There’s way too much blame on the coaching and lower tier players for my liking.

In a 6-0 game I’m the only one questioning the stars. After a bad penalty by #71 the team came unraveled. Then Letang had an egregious pinch then 3-0 and game over. Then a bad power play or two. I thought line #1 played hard but that’s it. O’Connor had some moments too.

The stars were allowed to score some goals.

Serious question. When have you EVER blamed Sullivan for ANYTHING? With you it's always the player's fault. Always. Yet if they win and look good (with the PLAYERS playing well), it's because of Sullivan's genius coaching.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

7) Where is FSG in all this? What do they think of everything? Do they even understand the issues with the team? Is Hextall going to be fired? Would they consider removing Sullivan? Or are they going to let it burn and only make changes when they feel it in revenues?

No. They don't know squat about hockey. They just made an investment and trust the people running the team.
They also like Sullivan when dealing with him face to face, hence the extension and the weird timing of it.

I think Hextall's gone if they miss or lose in a miserable fashion. He wasn't an FSG hire.
Sully's probably safe because of his contract and relationships. He's good with people.
I can't see no one being held accountable, and Hex is the obvious target. Burke is gone if Hex goes. Maybe Vellucci and Hennes as well. Reirden got the 2 year extension so I think he's safe.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Serious question. When have you EVER blamed Sullivan for ANYTHING? With you it's always the player's fault. Always. Yet if they win and look good (with the PLAYERS playing well), it's because of Sullivan's genius coaching.

Coaching never has meant less in the nhl. There’s hardly any practices.

Sullivan doesn’t tell Letang to make stupid pinches. Or Malkin not to shoot on the power play.

The best coaches in the league have shocker good goaltending.

 

[Gurglesons]

Coaching never has meant less in the nhl. There’s hardly any practices.

Sullivan doesn’t tell Letang to make stupid pinches. Or Malkin not to shoot on the power play.

The best coaches in the league have shocker good goaltending.

Yeah Bednar’s goaltending the last few years is remarkable.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

I still think it’s a bit premature to criticize FSG. Our media has put them on blast which has resulted in the rest of the fanbase putting them on blast. But they’ve only been here for little over a year. They didn’t bring Hextall in. Feel like you don’t hear from ownership with other teams throughout the league during the season. Only thing we know about them is that they love Sullivan unfortunately.

If it’s October and Hextall/Sullivan are still here, rip them away. Just feel like it may be a little early now.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The ownership group may be new here, but they know how Google works.

They can see the last few years before they invested. They could easily fire people right now, based on that.

 

[Pancakes]

Here's this week's schedule if you want to clench your butt:

Us: vs Ott (home), vs Col (away), vs Dal (away), vs Wsh (home)

NYI: vs Tor (home), vs CBJ (away), vs Buf (home)

Fla: vs Det (away), vs Phi (away), vs Tor (home), vs NYR (home)

expected results (ie, beating the teams you should beat) would have us going 2-2, NYI going 2-1, FLA going 2-2.

who knows what actually happens though, especially with this team

 

[Pens x]

I blamed the core. The leadership. That’s on sid.

Malkin took the penalty that blew our momentum. Not sid.

Yea, that penalty caused us to lose 6-0.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Coaching never has meant less in the nhl. There’s hardly any practices.

Sullivan doesn’t tell Letang to make stupid pinches. Or Malkin not to shoot on the power play.

The best coaches in the league have shocker good goaltending.

So then coaching has zero effect? Then why defend Sullivan at all and act like he's a good coach when any random dude with high school hockey coaching experience can get the same results since it's 100% dependent on the players and not the guy behind the bench? After all, coaching ability doesn't affect results, right? Just whatever coach has awesome goaltending?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah Bednar’s goaltending the last few years is remarkable.

Colorado doesn't win the Cup if Kuemper doesn't put up that spectacular .902 goaltending performance in the playoffs.

 

[Ugene Magic]

hate to debate these issues with people unwilling to understand a basic premise...whose fault is that jake and bunch of other forwards are playing only in the offensive zone, the minute the puck change direction they stop skating...Players? or coaches? Maybe players in one game or two game, but after 60 games, one becomes the wonder maybe there is someone at fault...and this bulshit about injuries...this team has not been healthier like ever...last two games happened, but the defense wasn't any better with Petry or Rutta, if you don't see this as a system and TEAM EFFORT issue, I don'yt know what to tell you...and there is only one way to change that...accountability...in any line of work...and that is a forbidden word right now

Here's the thing, though. Stuff that nobody will ever look at. They ran this top six like they are still young and can carry a team because, the bottom six is/was basically useless most games. The minutes will divulge the truth there. They needed goals, and they were playing from behind, a lot. Especially late in games. You know how this team goes, even getting an early lead isn't going to mean they'll have it late in the game. I agree it's team effort with a heavy dose of decision making more than it's a system thing. The system doesn't mean squat if they can't make good decisions on the fly.

You may think they have been healthy, and that's true for the top six, but you may want to stroll down memory lane to the injuries this year. Mainly at the top of the list is one Kristopher Letang. Only 6 players on the entire team have played the entire season save a game or so. Crosby, Malkin, Rakell, Rust, Pettersson and Dumoulin. Some are close and not injury laden like POJ, but the bottom six saw some lengthy injuries to Blueger, Poehling and Archibald and then there was that time period you didn't have one starting RD at all. Multiple times with Letang/Petry so far, Ruuta's was lengthy and then you have Jarry's.

That all factors into running your top six and top D into the ground.

 

[Pens x]

I still think it’s a bit premature to criticize FSG. Our media has put them on blast which has resulted in the rest of the fanbase putting them on blast. But they’ve only been here for little over a year. They didn’t bring Hextall in. Feel like you don’t hear from ownership with other teams throughout the league during the season. Only thing we know about them is that they love Sullivan unfortunately.

If it’s October and Hextall/Sullivan are still here, rip them away. Just feel like it may be a little early now.

See Sullivan’s extension. So, you have this coach who has been underachieving in the playoffs for the last half decade, who still had two years left on his contract. Why the f*** do you extend him????

You have a GM that is unable to write down his “master” plan, but you keep him? Why?????

How can you not criticize FSG?

 

[wheelz87]

In the past 5 games, we have exactly one goal from a non top 6/Letang — granlunds 2 on 1 to make the score 5-1. Absolutely ridiculous.

I say ride with Casey. Jarry clearly is broken. No it probably won’t matter.

 

[vikingGoalie]

This last game those first two goals neither where all that difficult to make the save and compared to the ones being stopped by igor where much easier saves.
Sure losing 6-0 is not all on Jarry. The carter/dumo show is actively hurting us, you'd think you'd avoid at all costs having them on the ice at the same time. Still..
Igor did a classic prime MM, other team is buzzing some key saves are made. Our team (during cup runs) would then find their game and dominate the other team.
It's utterly demoralizing to a team when you dominate a team that is actually better then you and you come away down 0-2. It changes the entire dynamic of the game playing a good team down by 2.

i'd rather be proven wrong and see Jarry flourish and the pens win. But I called this over and over again. Jarry and CDS is not a duo you can rely on. Sure they are both streaky and when playing at their peaks are really good. But that's not what you want from a starter, being consistent is key.

No one will call Jarry out, or say something but that locker room has to be at the point now where they have no confidence in their goalie, and that *REALLY* wears on a team. This keeps up we aren't making the playoffs.


I'm still astonished that we got granlund at 5M, WTF? We could've had JT Miller at that number by most accounts. Rest of the metro loaded up with talent, we got older and wasted cap space for years. I wish ownership would fire a shot across the bow now, Fire hextall now.don't wait until the end of season. Let the rest that remain know that everyone is on the accountability train.

 

[Icarium]

The system doesn't mean squat if they can't make good decisions on the fly.

Hard to make good decision when the system is one that is impossible for the current roster to keep with for more than 40 minutes. Usually even less than that. It's almost like the team needs a different system or plan B at least. All teams make mistakes and plenty of them. Good teams use strategies which maximizes their potential. Bad teams live in the past and/or find excuses for their losses.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

So f***ing stupid to say coaching isn't the issue especially as a pens fan. When all our recent cups have come from coaching change that year.

 

[Pens x]

This last game those first two goals neither where all that difficult to make the save and compared to the ones being stopped by igor where much easier saves.
Sure losing 6-0 is not all on Jarry. The carter/dumo show is actively hurting us, you'd think you'd avoid at all costs having them on the ice at the same time. Still..
Igor did a classic prime MM, other team is buzzing some key saves are made. Our team (during cup runs) would then find their game and dominate the other team.
It's utterly demoralizing to a team when you dominate a team that is actually better then you and you come away down 0-2. It changes the entire dynamic of the game playing a good team down by 2.

i'd rather be proven wrong and see Jarry flourish and the pens win. But I called this over and over again. Jarry and CDS is not a duo you can rely on. Sure they are both streaky and when playing at their peaks are really good. But that's not what you want from a starter, being consistent is key.

No one will call Jarry out, or say something but that locker room has to be at the point now where they have no confidence in their goalie, and that *REALLY* wears on a team. This keeps up we aren't making the playoffs.


I'm still astonished that we got granlund at 5M, WTF? We could've had JT Miller at that number by most accounts. Rest of the metro loaded up with talent, we got older and wasted cap space for years. I wish ownership would fire a shot across the bow now, Fire hextall now.don't wait until the end of season. Let the rest that remain know that everyone is on the accountability train.

Agreed, I don’t know how you keep Hextall employed at this point. He’s worse at his job than Jeff Carter is at playing hockey. There just isn’t any accountability in this organization, unless of course you are a young or AHL player.

Enough with the Burke press conferences, the Sully post game conferences or the weird one off Hextall press conferences - FSG has to step in at some point and let the fans know this is completely unacceptable.

 

[The Old Master]

Here's the thing, though. Stuff that nobody will ever look at. They ran this top six like they are still young and can carry a team because, the bottom six is/was basically useless most games. The minutes will divulge the truth there. They needed goals, and they were playing from behind, a lot. Especially late in games. You know how this team goes, even getting an early lead isn't going to mean they'll have it late in the game. I agree it's team effort with a heavy dose of decision making more than it's a system thing. The system doesn't mean squat if they can't make good decisions on the fly.
That all factors into running your top six and top D into the ground.

the system can limit those decisions on the fly and sometimes it make those decisions for you.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Hard to make good decision when the system is one that is impossible for the current roster to keep with for more than 40 minutes. Usually even less than that. It's almost like the team needs a different system or plan B at least. All teams make mistakes and plenty of them. Good teams use strategies which maximizes their potential. Bad teams live in the past and/or find excuses for their losses.

Systems are great when you have a solid foundation. What system do you purpose for being behind in games or give up goals soon after you take a lead?

Because, this team doesn't hold onto leads for more than a period, maybe two at best. There's only two maybe three at best, and when you're behind as often as this team is it's kind of the system is out the window because you need to score and take chances all the time.

 

[the penitent]

I still think it’s a bit premature to criticize FSG. Our media has put them on blast which has resulted in the rest of the fanbase putting them on blast. But they’ve only been here for little over a year. They didn’t bring Hextall in. Feel like you don’t hear from ownership with other teams throughout the league during the season. Only thing we know about them is that they love Sullivan unfortunately.

If it’s October and Hextall/Sullivan are still here, rip them away. Just feel like it may be a little early now.

Anyone with an even remote understanding of hockey would fire Hextall the day after the season ends. If they didn't realize that he spent part of the TDL cleaning up his own salary cap mess, and the rest of it creating a brand new mess, then they're simply not paying attention. And, given that the future is now for this team, if they were paying attention, Sullivan would have been replaced to try to spark the team