Series Talk: PENS vs Montreal Canadiens Round 1 (Best Of Five) - Episode II: On a peur, très peur!

[Gurglesons]

Sheary is what he is: a one-dimensional 30-35 point forward.

Saying that Brendan Gallagher is a much, much better player isn't exactly a minority opinion.

Did anyone say otherwise? You seem to be the one taking this conversation into the Sheary is a “insert same argument you’ve been making since 17-18 to prop up a career AHLer and his 8 game sample size”.

Crosby won two Smythes with Sheary being his second most frequent line mate in both separate runs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Did anyone say otherwise? You seem to be the one taking this conversation into the Sheary is a “insert same argument you’ve been making since 17-18 to prop up a career AHLer and his 8 game sample size”.

The discussion is a comparison between 1st lines mentioned in an earlier graphic, and Sheary is the weakest individual link by a fair margin.

Do you disagree? If so, kindly explain.

 

[Gurglesons]

The discussion is a comparison between 1st lines, and Sheary is the weakest individual link by a fair margin.

Do you disagree? If so, kindly explain.

I’d argue the disparity between Sidney Crosby and Phillip Danault is the biggest issue in this comparison.

Crosby won two Smythes with Sheary being his second most regular line mate. Or does that 2 year sample not work for your narrative?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I’d argue the disparity between Sidney Crosby and Philip Danault is the biggest issue in this comparison.

That's a huge difference too, of course.

Those factors plus the chemistry angle make an argument for Montreal's trio reasonable. It's not a slam dunk or anything but I could see it, and I might be inclined to believe it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The "no hockey for 4+ months" thing is enough of a clean slate start for me to not really put much into evaluating how things may turn out. The regular season feels like it was decades ago.

On paper we should wipe the floor with them, but we don't know how either of our goalies will perform, or if our team has its usual slow start to the season.

It's going to be very odd watching sloppy, out of sync hockey be played for the Cup. Feels wrong, to be honest. The NHL playoffs are usually the best of the best when it comes to the sport. I can't imagine we'll be seeing anything close to that with this weird, forced, mid-summer tourney.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's a huge difference too, of course.

Those factors plus the chemistry angle make an argument for Montreal's trio reasonable. It's not a slam dunk or anything but I could see it, and I might be inclined to believe it.

I mean, I can’t say I’m surprised you think Conor Sheary tanks Crosby and Zucker so much a non-playoff team’s top line is somehow better.

What are your next surprising takes? Team would be better off playing Marino over Letang because he plays a “safer” game?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, I can’t say I’m surprised you think Conor Sheary tanks Crosby and Zucker so much a non-playoff team’s top line is somehow better.

The Rangers and Canucks weren't playoff teams when the season stopped either but they have great 1st lines. Teams don't make the playoffs for a lot of reasons besides their 1st lines.

Nowhere did I see you dispute that Sheary's the worst player of either line by a huge margin. Because it's not really disputable by any logic or metric.

As for the Habs' line, it's worth remembering that Danault plays a very similar game to Bergeron, and he's coached by Julien now too.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Rangers and Canucks weren't playoff teams when the season stopped either but they have great 1st lines. Teams don't make the playoffs for a lot of reasons besides their 1st lines.

Nowhere did I see you dispute that Sheary's the worst player of either line by a huge margin. Because it's not really disputable by any logic or metric.

As for the Habs' line, it's worth remembering that Danault plays a very similar game to Bergeron, and he's coached by Julien now too.

Bergeron scored more goals as an 18 year old than Danault ever has in his career.

Sheary is a perfectly fine third wheel as we have seen here in two cup wins. Is he Gallagher? No. But, few players in the league are.

Difference is center drives lines. The fact you are comparing Vancouver and NYRs lines to Zucker - Crosby is hilarious.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I’d argue the disparity between Sidney Crosby and Phillip Danault is the biggest issue in this comparison.

Crosby won two Smythes with Sheary being his second most regular line mate. Or does that 2 year sample not work for your narrative?

That was the most striking thing that popped up in that stat watch. Danault and Crosby have the same amount of points... only Crosby did it in 30 less games, and while recovering from a sports hernia.

 

[Andy99]

Jake Guentzel continues to make strides in recovery, joins teammates on the ice

looking at these groupings,Geno is getting disrespected again...it looks like he’s going to play with JJ again...please stop this nonsense Sully!

 

[Gurglesons]

That was the most striking thing that popped up in that stat watch. Danault and Crosby have the same amount of points... only Crosby did it in 30 less games, and while recovering from a sports hernia.

Yeah, but are you accounting for @Soggy Biscuit’s personal Sheary bias? Because when you factor that in all other information is irrelevant because he falls down and had a bad season one time.(in his bad season he scored 18 ES Goals btw).

 

[Ryder71]

Seeing Jake again gets me VERY EXCITED!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Bergeron scored more goals as an 18 year old than Danault ever has in his career.

That is true. It also doesn't change what I said.

They're both detail-oriented defensive centers that excel in the dot and shot suppression. That's the sort of center that typically fares better against Crosby than any other.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

While true, I sure as hell hope the players don’t feel the same way...

These are exactly the type of series’ that the Pens shit the bed in and everyone wonders WTF happened afterward.

Oh, sure! I want the players to take the Habs as seriously as possible.

I also want the coaching staff to realize how they can use our HUGE advantages over them. And that leads me to...

True, but it’s all about chemistry and how they can exploit the matchup.

Let them match Danault and Crosby. Hell, I'd actively seek that match up. It is their only card.

1) Sid can win it. As pointed out, even if I like that line, it is nothing special. A healthy Sid should dominate that match-up. Danault might be Bergeron-lite, but Tatar and Gallagher are not Marchand and Pastrnak.

2) Even if Danault wins the match-up, Geno should kill whoever he plays against. If Danault wins the match-up, get Letang away from that match-up and put him behind Geno. Accentuate your advantage elsewhere. Rust putting pressure on Petry forcing turn over after turn onver is something I will welcome.

The Danault line is their only line who has a good chance to win its match-up.

Their second, third and fourth line are not good enough.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, but are you accounting for @Soggy Biscuit’s personal Sheary bias? Because when you factor that in all other information is irrelevant because he falls down and had a bad season one time.(in his bad season he scored 18 ES Goals btw).

Sheary's an offense-only scoring winger that has cracked the 35 point barrier once in his career, and had 2 secondary assists in 12 games during his last playoff run with the team.

Considering him a weak link in a comparison with Montreal's top line doesn't require any personal animus, it only requires an understanding of the basic facts.

 

[Gurglesons]

That is true. It also doesn't change what I said.

They're both detail-oriented defensive centers that excel in the dot and shot suppression. That's the sort of center that typically fares better against Crosby than any other.

Danault is a good player. But this idea that he is a Bergeron level suppression machine is silly.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Bergeron scored more goals as an 18 year old than Danault ever has in his career.

Sheary is a perfectly fine third wheel as we have seen here in two cup wins. Is he Gallagher? No. But, few players in the league are.

Difference is center drives lines. The fact you are comparing Vancouver and NYRs lines to Zucker - Crosby is hilarious.

Patrice Bergeron is a hall-of-famer. Philip Danault is a VERY good 2-way center.

They indeed play a very similar game and Danault can be a match-up problem for Sid... but Danault is a poor man's Bergeron, not Bergeron himself, I agree.

Tatar and Gallagher are good players, but they are not Marchand and Pastrnak. I am not afraid of that match up, but pointing out that Danault can cause similar problems to Crosby that Bergeron would is true... he won't be able to score as much on Sid that Bergeron would... which is why I would let Julien have that match up if he wants it. At the very worst, Danault might win it, but Malkin will mope the floor with rookie Suzuki.

 

[Gurglesons]

Patrice Bergeron is a hall-of-famer. Philip Danault is a VERY good 2-way center.

They indeed play a very similar game and Danault can be a match-up problem for Sid... but Danault is a poor man's Bergeron, not Bergeron himself, I agree.

Tatar and Gallagher are good players, but they are not Marchand and Pastrnak. I am not afraid of that match up, but pointing out that Danault can cause similar problems to Crosby that Bergeron would is true... he won't be able to score as much on Sid that Bergeron would... which is why I would let Julien have that match up if he wants it. At the very worst, Danault might win it, but Malkin will mope the floor with rookie Suzuki.

Last years Islanders series is the only time I can think of that Sid had “trouble” in a series. Maybe 2009 Detroit. But Montreal has nobody close to those D pairings Sid was going up against. Weber is still a good D, but his defensive play has fallen off hard. Petry isn’t a defensive dynamo. Montreal will look to win the game by pushing play which is why it should be an easy win for the Pens if they don’t beat themselves as they have in the past.

Pulock and Peleck IMO are top three in terms of defensive D pairings in the league.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think the idea of forcing the Habs' best defensive and offensive line to play against Sid is great IF Sid's injury has healed enough for him not to be a liability. It was noticeable before the surgery and after his return, but 4 months of rest should work wonders for that.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Last years Islanders series is the only time I can think of that Sid had “trouble” in a series. Maybe 2009 Detroit. But Montreal has nobody close to those D pairings Sid was going up against. Weber is still a good D, but his defensive play has fallen off hard. Petry isn’t a defensive dynamo. Montreal will look to win the game by pushing play which is why it should be an easy win for the Pens if they don’t beat themselves as they have in the past.

Well, yeah, Weber is no 2009-Lidstrom, that's for sure. And he does not play with Rafalski either.

Sid will have Letang/Dumo behind him most likely and that should be a big advantage.

Letang usually contains Ovechkin pretty well (at least 5v5), Gallagher does not scare him.

I mean, on paper, we win that match-up rather easily. Pointing out that Danault is the type of player who COULD win the match-up is not far fetched. As I said many times, if we lose that series, it will be embarrassing. On paper, we should KILL them!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Danault is a good player. But this idea that he is a Bergeron level suppression machine is silly.

Their suppression #s are pretty similar, actually.

Bergeron suppresses more total shots against, but Danault suppresses more regular to high-danger shots.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think the idea of forcing the Habs' best defensive and offensive line to play against Sid is great IF Sid's injury has healed enough for him not to be a liability. It was noticeable before the surgery and after his return, but 4 months of rest should work wonders for that.

Even if he is not 100%. Let them have it. It is the only match up they could win. I prefer Sid against Danault, because I think Sid is less likely to be shutdown by a shutdown center than Geno could be... than again, Danault is not Couturier. Couturier could physically impose on Geno. Danault cannot do that, he is a cerebral player.

Let Geno destroy Suzuki. Hell, even give him Jake. Force Julien to adjust. If he does, Sid will destroy Suzuki.

Basically, I'll let Julien choose his poison no matter what. He has no match-up advantage, let him chase.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Last years Islanders series is the only time I can think of that Sid had “trouble” in a series. Maybe 2009 Detroit. But Montreal has nobody close to those D pairings Sid was going up against. Weber is still a good D, but his defensive play has fallen off hard. Petry isn’t a defensive dynamo. Montreal will look to win the game by pushing play which is why it should be an easy win for the Pens if they don’t beat themselves as they have in the past.

Pulock and Peleck IMO are top three in terms of defensive D pairings in the league.

Crosby was not enjoying himself against the Bruins in 2014, I am sure of that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby was not enjoying himself against the Bruins in 2014, I am sure of that.

Penguins outshot the Bruins in 3 of 4 games. A frustrating goaltending experience. But, not necessarily a tour de force by their team to suppress him.

I also think it is really weird to compare a Bruins core that has three SCF appearances to a Montreal core that has basically done nothing since Subban left.

 

[Andy99]

If Sully is smart, since we have home team advantage for three games, he should put ZAR-Blue-Tanev out against Danault’s line and keep Sid away from them...