Series Talk: Pens vs. Habs --- THIS IS IT!!

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Lol JJ tomorrow boys

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My issue is that your concerns are based on projections that involve our 23 and 24 year olds actively getting worse.

Pettersson is succeeding in his role as a 2nd pair d right now, as he did in the regular season. There's no reason to think he should be moved down to the 3rd pairing based on his effectiveness so far.

Marino produced like a #1 at ES as a rookie, with projected totals comparable to Fox and Hughes - young blueliners universally considered offensive studs.

We only have so many assets to trade, and many more pressing roster holes. Another young defenseman who could project to score 50 points would be nice, but absolutely a luxury at this point.

Petts is a better option than anyone else for the 2LD role, but that doesn't make him the right option. Particularly moving forward when I talk about needing to solidify the future top pairing. And it's not projecting guys to get worse, it's assuming, mainly in Marino's case, that he probably isn't going to turn into a 60pt+ guy from the blueline while still being able to play the calm, controlled defensive game that made him the best blueliner we've had all season. ES production is fantastic, but you're gonna need your #1 blueliner to be a significant asset to your power play too. Maybe Marino's big jump in production comes from more time on the top PP unit, assuming he excels there.

As for the assets, I agree. We're thin as is, that's why I want to focus all the effort into cementing the blueline's future. Sid's RW shouldn't cost a ton if we manage to find the right guy. A guy like Dupuis or Hagelin on the RW would be pretty much perfect, imo. The third line, again, is a complete shitshow so I have no idea how to even approach revamping that entire unit. I do think we need to start with a 3C of pretty significant degree, one way or another--either defensive specialist or a guy who brings offensive depth that tips the scales in our favor when it comes to matchup Hell for the opposition--and build around that. I know Hornqvist brings his game wherever he is, but I've been wondering whether or not it's worth spending north of $5 million/yr on a guy who is essentially a full-time 3rd liner and PP specialist.

I don't think the future of the 2LD spot is a luxury addition whatsoever. I really think it's the most pressing issue for the foreseeable future, because in a couple short years, that pairing will take over the top pairing minutes/role when Letang's wheels start to go. Again, I think the inevitable slowdown or retirement of Letang is going to be harder for us to deal with than the slowdown of Sid or Geno. I pretty much assume Sid's going to be an effective player one way or another until he hangs 'em up. Be it as a scoring line guy, or a defensive/matchup guy down the road. I think Geno's skill probably sees him producing well into his mid to late 30s (albeit not at a $9.5 million/yr clip). Once Letang starts to lose the one thing that enables his entire game, his skating, he's going to be rough to watch.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Lol JJ tomorrow boys

He’s going to spend all night thinking about it to go with McCann back in and maybe 7D.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Lol JJ tomorrow boys

Sullivan's a master of saying a bunch of words while not actually saying anything.

 

[Shaffer]

Sheary-Crosby-Tanev
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
McCann-Guentzel-Hornqvist
Marleu-Bluegar-ZAR/Lafferty

 

[Andy99]

He’s going to spend all night thinking about it to go with McCann back in and maybe 7D.

that’s probably his idea of a big move, lol...should I put McCann back in? Should I sit the worst defenseman in the league? Hmmmm, let me think about that...

he should put wing pairs together that work...Zucker-Sheary and Jake-Rust...McCann and Horny with someone who can lug the puck...
Zucker-Sid-Sheary
Jake-G-Rust
McCann-ERod-Horny/Tanev
BARF (Or with Horny)

at minimum one of JJ or Schultz should sit, or ideally, Riikola-Ruh...one option is to play with five D and double shift Marino

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

that’s probably his idea of a big move, lol...should I put McCann back in? Should I sit the worst defenseman in the league? Hmmmm, let me think about that...

Lafferty or E-Rod...
...McCann or Lafferty
...E-Rod or McCann

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Andy99]

Joe Starkey: Here’s how the Penguins can win this series

 

[Gurglesons]

Lafferty or E-Rod...
...McCann or Lafferty
...E-Rod or McCann

Decisions, decisions.

Pettersson - Schultz
Johnson - Marino

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Whatever changes Sully does or doesn't make, I don't think it'll be enough. Coaching decisions have not been good, but the roster issues are the bigger issue, imo.

Even if we manage to sneak out of the qualifiers, we're gonna get absolutely steamrolled in the 1st round.

 

[Andy99]

Report: Penguins 'leaning' toward starting Tristan Jarry for must-win game

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Whatever changes Sully does or doesn't make, I don't think it'll be enough. Coaching decisions have not been good, but the roster issues are the bigger issue, imo.

Even if we manage to sneak out of the qualifiers, we're gonna get absolutely steamrolled in the 1st round.

Not to mention it might be a better impetus for needed change. If we lose to Montreal, the organization might finally get over themselves and look at the obvious flaws in the roster and fix it. But if we beat Montreal and then lose to Boston/Tampa, they might just see it as losing to a strong foe and nothing big needs to happen other than minor tweaks.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not to mention it might be a better impetus for needed change. If we lose to Montreal, the organization might finally get over themselves and look at the obvious flaws in the roster and fix it. But if we beat Montreal and then lose to Boston/Tampa, they might just see it as losing to a strong foe and nothing big needs to happen other than minor tweaks.

Yeah, I genuinely hope we are bounced. It'll be better for this team in the long run, imo. Much better.

Forest fire needed for new growth, yadda yadda.

 

[Andy99]

He didn’t guarantee a win though [sad face emoji]

Geno also didn’t sound particularly confident in this piece and clearly has too much “respect” for Price and not enough for his abilities...

Evgeni Malkin: Playing 'right' is key to extending Penguins' season

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Geno's this close to breaking out offensively. He's getting tons of high quality chances, he just hasn't been able to bury the puck yet.

That being said, I think he's also extremely frustrated, and a couple quick goals by the Habs tomorrow could result in an absolute unraveling of this team's discipline and desire to win.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Petts is a better option than anyone else for the 2LD role, but that doesn't make him the right option. Particularly moving forward when I talk about needing to solidify the future top pairing.

Well, he's already doing a good job as a #4D as a sophomore. I'm not sure what else one can reasonably expect from him in that role. It's hardly inconceivable that if he keeps progressing, he could continue complementing Marino in a top pairing role.

Dumo hadn't even secured an NHL role when he was Pettersson's age.

And it's not projecting guys to get worse, it's assuming, mainly in Marino's case, that he probably isn't going to turn into a 60pt+ guy from the blueline while still being able to play the calm, controlled defensive game that made him the best blueliner we've had all season. ES production is fantastic, but you're gonna need your #1 blueliner to be a significant asset to your power play too. Maybe Marino's big jump in production comes from more time on the top PP unit, assuming he excels there.

Right. So Marino has already shown he can produce like a #1 at ES as a rookie, and hasn't had an opportunity to prove himself on the PP. So wouldn't it be more prudent to say "TBD" instead of assuming he will fail there and go out and spend assets on a role that Marino may well be able to fill?

As for the assets, I agree. We're thin as is, that's why I want to focus all the effort into cementing the blueline's future. Sid's RW shouldn't cost a ton if we manage to find the right guy. A guy like Dupuis or Hagelin on the RW would be pretty much perfect, imo. The third line, again, is a complete shitshow so I have no idea how to even approach revamping that entire unit. I do think we need to start with a 3C of pretty significant degree, one way or another--either defensive specialist or a guy who brings offensive depth that tips the scales in our favor when it comes to matchup Hell for the opposition--and build around that. I know Hornqvist brings his game wherever he is, but I've been wondering whether or not it's worth spending north of $5 million/yr on a guy who is essentially a full-time 3rd liner and PP specialist.

And each of these is more pressing than Marino-Petts, isn't it?

I don't think the future of the 2LD spot is a luxury addition whatsoever. I really think it's the most pressing issue for the foreseeable future, because in a couple short years, that pairing will take over the top pairing minutes/role when Letang's wheels start to go. Again, I think the inevitable slowdown or retirement of Letang is going to be harder for us to deal with than the slowdown of Sid or Geno. I pretty much assume Sid's going to be an effective player one way or another until he hangs 'em up. Be it as a scoring line guy, or a defensive/matchup guy down the road. I think Geno's skill probably sees him producing well into his mid to late 30s (albeit not at a $9.5 million/yr clip). Once Letang starts to lose the one thing that enables his entire game, his skating, he's going to be rough to watch.

Considering everything else that ails this team, spending considerable assets on the sort of defenseman you want to add doesn't make sense to me when Petts and Marino have been as good as they've been. But we've all got our little obsessions, I guess.

 

[Big Poppa Pump]

Zucker - Crosby - Horn
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust
McCann - Rodrigues/Blueger - Tanev
Lafferty - Rodrigues/Blueger - Sheary

Letang - Dumo
Marino - Pettersson
Ruhwedel - Riikola

Jarry

PP1
Rust - Horn - Malkin - Crosby - Letang

PP2
Guentzel - Zucker - McCann - Blueger/Tanev - Marino

 

[JackFr]

If it's up to me, I run

Zucker - Crosby - Sheary
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust
McCann - Rodrigues - Hornqvist
Aston-Reese - Blueger - Tanev

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Marino
Riikola - Ruhwedel

Jarry

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Joe Starkey: Here’s how the Penguins can win this series

Good ideas. Will Sully make those changes? Probably not.

 

[K Fleur]

This team is a paper tiger.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well, he's already doing a good job as a #4D as a sophomore. I'm not sure what else one can reasonably expect from him in that role. It's hardly inconceivable that if he keeps progressing, he could continue complementing Marino in a top pairing role.

Dumo hadn't even secured an NHL role when he was Pettersson's age.

We also had the luxury of a prime Sid, Geno and Letang when we landed Dumo, so the need wasn't as pressing. And no, I'm not satisfied with Petts' play, and think we should strive to improve on that spot. He's routinely getting worked by smaller, faster guys. He doesn't provide enough offensively or in transition to make up for that. His defensive lapses are glaring, and tend to be costly. He's a bottom pairing guy right now, imo, forced into a middle pairing role because of how poorly our other blueliners are playing.

Right. So Marino has already shown he can produce like a #1 at ES as a rookie, and hasn't had an opportunity to prove himself on the PP. So wouldn't it be more prudent to say "TBD" instead of assuming he will fail there and go out and spend assets on a role that Marino may well be able to fill?

I don't think Marino's production is up to snuff for the #1 blueliner on a team chasing Cups. I think it's impressive, especially as a 23 year old rookie, but I would feel a whole lot better about the near and distant future if he and Letang weren't the only guys doing anything offensively from the blueline. And again, Letang's production and impact are going to drop off sooner rather than later. And no, again, I don't think going out and getting another stud blueliner (if possible) can result in any sort of negative. Our blueline's been a massive weakness for years, and with the big three approaching a drop off, it's important to shore it up. We've got wingers in Jake, Zucker and Rust that'll be around well into Sid/Geno's twilight. After we tinker with the 1RW spot, we're basically done in the top-6 for the Sid/Geno era.

And each of these is more pressing than Marino-Petts, isn't it?

No.

Considering everything else that ails this team, spending considerable assets on the sort of defenseman you want to add doesn't make sense to me when Petts and Marino have been as good as they've been. But we've all got our little obsessions, I guess.

What else do we spend assets on? A 3C? A 1RW that doesn't even need to be an expensive pickup anyway? I don't think either role is going to cost us a lot, nor are they as pressing now or heading into the future as the 2LD spot. We've got Poulin and Legare who may be able to step into the top-6 in a year or so. We've got one guy in PO Joseph, who I haven't exactly heard rave reviews about when it comes to his development on the ice or with regard to his physique.

Unless you want to get a guy like Kadri's caliber to be the 3C, I don't think that'll be an expensive acquisition either. As we've learned, it's about finding the right guy, not the most expensive guy (cough, Brassard, cough).

 

[Andy99]

This team is a paper tiger.

Pride comes before a fall....

 

[K Fleur]

Pride comes before a fall....

This team is so lame that I feel like I’ve almost matched your level of pessimism Andy

 

[Andy99]

This team is so lame that I feel like I’ve almost matched your level of pessimism Andy

I don’t know Fleur...you might even be more pessimistic rn...lol

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Don't tell me that so many Montreal fans, not to mention other fan bases that we hate much more, upset about this doesn’t soften the blow of the Pens on the brink.

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noun

1. pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
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