Series Talk: Pens vs. Habs --- THIS IS IT!!

[Big Friggin Dummy]

MP played 2nd pair minutes all year and both his production and metrics are good. His pairing hasn't allowed a goal through 3 playoff games.

If he's regularly getting worked - something I haven't seen evidence of - it's not manifesting itself in a quantifiable way over a large sample size in the regular season or a small sample size when it matters most.



Marino's ES pace as a rookie was 32.

Pietrangelo's in '18-'19 was 29.
Carlson's in '17-'18 was 36.
Schultz's in '16-'17 was 33.

Having 2 blueliners who can produce like Marino and Letang (and understanding that the former will likely increase and the latter decrease over the next few years) is a luxury in itself. The middle pairing's getting it done but our wing group isn't, and no minor tinkering is going to fix the PP.



It's proven a lot more difficult than most anticipated to replace both Bonino and Kessel.

If I had my say about how we spent our assets, they'd clearly go to those weaknesses rather than a top 4 that looks pretty well set up for the next few years based on the numbers.

We've replaced Kessel with Zucker. And what little drop off we've seen in terms of production is made up for, in droves, with play away from the puck. I'm glad Kessel's gone, dude was a turd.

As for Bonino; no argument there. That's a position that's proven difficult to fix, but we've got an idiot at the GM desk so, y'know. I still don't think it should be an overly expensive position to fill. It won't be dirt cheap or anything, but I don't think it'll prove super costly. Like the 1RW situation, it's more about finding the right guy as opposed to the "best" guy. If we decide what identity we want our third line to be, we have a much more clear vision of how to build it. If we want it to be a shutdown, defensive unit, or if we want it to be a unit we can use to overwhelm the opposition with scoring depth and create a matchup Hell--we need to decide and go out and find that guy via trade.

We'll never agree on Petts and the 2LD situation though, so I think we're probably done here. We'll just be running in circles forever.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t really know what else you want from Pettersson as a #4D or like what people are expecting. Or like what we are going to get from someone else in that role without paying 5+ mil.

I also don’t understand how our top six wings are issues right now. Guentzel and Rust are PPG and Sheary and Zucker have 2 points each in 3 games.

 

[Turin]

How do we time travel to create:

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Bonino-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Cole-Schultz

 

[Gurglesons]

How do we time travel to create:

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Bonino-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Cole-Schultz

Kuhn - Cullen - Fehr was much better than BART.

 

[Turin]

Kuhn - Cullen - Fehr was much better than BART.

I mean in 2020. I’ll take Cullen all day but he’s unable to hockey at this point.

 

[Al Smith]

MP played 2nd pair minutes all year and both his production and metrics are good. His pairing hasn't allowed a goal through 3 playoff games.

If he's regularly getting worked - something I haven't seen evidence of - it's not manifesting itself in a quantifiable way over a large sample size in the regular season or a small sample size when it matters most.



Marino's ES pace as a rookie was 32.

Pietrangelo's in '18-'19 was 29.
Carlson's in '17-'18 was 36.
Schultz's in '16-'17 was 33.

Having 2 blueliners who can produce like Marino and Letang (and understanding that the former will likely increase and the latter decrease over the next few years) is a luxury in itself. The middle pairing's getting it done but our wing group isn't, and no minor tinkering is going to fix the PP.



It's proven a lot more difficult than most anticipated to replace both Bonino and Kessel.

If I had my say about how we spent our assets, they'd clearly go to those weaknesses rather than a top 4 that looks pretty well set up for the next few years based on the numbers.

I thought MP was bad in G2, but OK in G1 and G3. My main issue with him in G2, and other times since he arrived here is he tends to panic and throw the puck out of the zone too quickly to the other team. I don't know how that translates in advanced stats, but that's my main issue with him. Interestingly, that's what Sully criticized cough drop about at some point last year, IIRC, and MP is almost as bad (but Riiko has some other issues). I'd rather see MP as a third-pairing guy, but he and Marino as our second pair are the least of our issues.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

No team has ever won a series where Jack Johnson played for them. That might be the most impressive achievement of his career.

LA started winning Cups once they got rid of his ass

OH MY GOD HOW IS THIS REAL!?!?

 

[Al Smith]

OH MY GOD HOW IS THIS REAL!?!?

Interesting. I wonder how many other players share this distinction.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

All I care about is just not seeing Jack Johnson play another game for this organization ever again, I don't even trust him enough to be a permanent healthy scratch in Wheeling.

 

[Peat]

I mean in 2020. I’ll take Cullen all day but he’s unable to hockey at this point.

You just said we're time travelling already goddamnit.

I think it’s time for JR to go tbh. His work since 2017 has not been pretty. As much as I hate Sullys decision making, he’s shown he can be a great coach and plus he just signed an extension, so I don’t see him going anywhere.

Thing is his work since the Florida trade has been really solid, and his skillset (ability to make tons of trades without a bunch of value to work with) is just what we need. I know we're suffering for a bunch of his 'get tough' actions still, but the probable best guy to fix that is the Rutherford who signs Tanev and gets Bjugstad and McCann for Sheahan and Brassard etc.etc.

And honestly, looking at what's going on, that third pairing is his horrible dirty work, and Marleau mightn't have been a great rental shout after all, but this thing where we screw up a bunch of great opportunities or don't lock down a 3-1 lead isn't really him.

 

[Gurglesons]

You just said we're time travelling already goddamnit.



Thing is his work since the Florida trade has been really solid, and his skillset (ability to make tons of trades without a bunch of value to work with) is just what we need. I know we're suffering for a bunch of his 'get tough' actions still, but the probable best guy to fix that is the Rutherford who signs Tanev and gets Bjugstad and McCann for Sheahan and Brassard etc.etc.

And honestly, looking at what's going on, that third pairing is his horrible dirty work, and Marleau mightn't have been a great rental shout after all, but this thing where we screw up a bunch of great opportunities or don't lock down a 3-1 lead isn't really him.

You mean he should get props for moving Brassard and Sheahan for two scratches lol?

 

[Peat]

You mean he should get props for moving Brassard and Sheahan for two scratches lol?

Bjugstad's injured, not a scratch, and McCann getting scratched for a game due to meh performance isn't as big a deal for me as his whole general performance.

 

[JackFr]

Their fans are obnoxious about their team right now.

Canucks all the way.

ah yes the notoriously great Canucks fanbase

 

[Gurglesons]

Bjugstad's injured, not a scratch, and McCann getting scratched for a game due to meh performance isn't as big a deal for me as his whole general performance.

Weren’t you arguing with me about how trades are based on how they ended up? We’ve won 0 playoff games with McCann and Bjugstad.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Trading Kahun and the Simon injury has certainly hurt the bottom 6, both in production and speed. Kahun had 27 points in 50 games getting 13 minutes a game with no pp time and playing in the bottom 6. The guy could create on his own, something severely lacking in the current depth players.

I will honestly never understand that trade. For all JR did to improve the team in the off-season he went backwards at the deadline. If he really wanted Sheary back he certainly could've been had for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

[Peat]

Weren’t you arguing with me about how trades are based on how they ended up? We’ve won 0 playoff games with McCann and Bjugstad.

And we might not have ever made them if we'd had Brassard and Sheahan instead. They've contributed to the team and in McCann's case will continue to do so, either as trade bait or a player.

Trading Kahun and the Simon injury has certainly hurt the bottom 6, both in production and speed. Kahun had 27 points in 50 games getting 13 minutes a game with no pp time and playing in the bottom 6. The guy could create on his own, something severely lacking in the current depth players.

I will honestly never understand that trade. For all JR did to improve the team in the off-season he went backwards at the deadline. If he really wanted Sheary back he certainly could've been had for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Reports said the original version of the trade was for picks but Botterill decided he had to have a player back, so no, couldn't have. Right now I'd say Sheary's top 6 performances are justifying the gamble.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

ah yes the notoriously great Canucks fanbase

Yep.

 

[Andy99]

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Interesting. I wonder how many other players share this distinction.

Probably a lot. Taylor Hall, Auston Matthews and the rest of their core, Eichel and co, Florida’s core, etc. What separates JR’s pride and joy is that he’s played almost 1000 NHL games... Ron Hainsey comes to mind but he’d never made the playoffs before his cup run with the Pens.

What really makes JJ is that he’s played 937 games, has made the playoffs 5 times (plus whatever this mess is qualified as), has played 10+ seasons and the timing. Einstein dodged Carolina’s run by not signing, was traded from LA before they won and he’s seen the Pens go from back to back cups and a 2nd round exit to getting swept and probably losing the play in round. Columbus has done better after him, too. And he made the US Olympic team.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Probably a lot. Taylor Hall, Auston Matthews and the rest of their core, Eichel and co, Florida’s core, etc. What separates JR’s pride and joy is that he’s played almost 1000 NHL games... Ron Hainsey comes to mind but he’d never made the playoffs before his cup run with the Pens.

What really makes JJ is that he’s played 937 games, has made the playoffs 5 times (plus whatever this mess is qualified as), has played 10+ seasons and the timing. Einstein dodged Carolina’s run by not signing, was traded from LA before they won and he’s seen the Pens go from back to back cups and a 2nd round exit to getting swept and probably losing the play in round. Columbus has done better after him, too. And he made the US Olympic team.

You want to talk about someone living off their draft pedigree, it's JJ. Wouldn't be shocked if teams felt sorry for him because of the financial fiasco with his parents either

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Jack Johnson Career 5v5 Playoff Stats as a Penguin:
GP: 6
G: 0
A:0
PTS: 0
+/-: -7
CF%: 46.67%
FF%: 42%
GF: 1
GA: 8
xGF%: 35.18%

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You want to talk about someone living off their draft pedigree, it's JJ. Wouldn't be shocked if teams felt sorry for him because of the financial fiasco with his parents either

That and “omg, big and physical!” *excited squeal* from GMs and coaches.

 

[PensandCaps]

Offensively? He sure as hell isnt.

Yah he is.

quite easily too

 

[PensandCaps]

I don’t really know what else you want from Pettersson as a #4D or like what people are expecting. Or like what we are going to get from someone else in that role without paying 5+ mil.

I also don’t understand how our top six wings are issues right now. Guentzel and Rust are PPG and Sheary and Zucker have 2 points each in 3 games.

Sheary and Pettersson have to yet to be on ice for a goal against.

Sheary leads all penguins in corsi

 

[66-30-33]

JJ owes us all some therapy sessions.

YOU OWE US!!!!!