Series Talk: Pens vs. Habs --- THIS IS IT!!

[vikingGoalie]

I thought both goalies played well, a slight nod to Jarry. But it's Murray's net to start, with a short leash.
It's hard to extrapolate from this game as it was mainly just a get your skating legs and timing back affair.

Marino, holy crap has any team found a future legit #1 defensemen for a 6th round pick before? We will see but to my eyes he is our #1 defensemen once Letang slows down a bit more, heck at times now he looks like our best defensemen. This kid is so effortless at times, what a find.

Sid, he was obviously using this game as a feeling out process for his healing/repaired hernia. He might have skated at 100% only a few shifts the whole game. The real key here is how does he feel today?

Geno was in exhibition game mode, until he got checked. Then he was in get on my back we are winning this game mode, easily our best forward. How the heck does Zucker get "player of the game from our home announcers?" Zucker was barely noticeable in this game other then cleaning the garbage up. I hope him and geno click soon because Zucker/Sid was pretty good for a span there and Jake/Geno was lethal. When do we try that?

Sheary was noticeable, and had a pretty good game.

Overall it's a pretty meh result, nothing to fret about. The flyers are a fast team and we still played most of the game in their end, the ice has to be sorted out it was awful.
Bad ice will hurt us more then our opponent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ice looked pretty shit, to me. That's at least one big reason why both teams looked like slugs.

Hopefully they can get that sorted but I doubt it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Nah, it was 4 of their defenders. They ran with 7 D last night, and Kulak, Mete, Ouellett and Fleury got smacked around.

Chiarot-Weber was good, Petry was okay and the other 4 D got hammered.

I very obviously need more caffeine as I read Petry as two people.

 

[The Old Master]

Ice looked pretty shit, to me. That's at least one big reason why both teams looked like slugs.

Hopefully they can get that sorted but I doubt it.

bad ice is a big factor. but they seemed to do better at the end of the game, when the ice should of been the worst. if i was the coach i might have to sit a few players just to send a message.

 

[RSPens]

I wonder if playing a hand full of games before the next round will be a good thing for us. We will have some games to work out some kinks. Where as whokev we play next will have only had one game to get the Ball rollin'

There is also a round robin seeding for the other teams. So including the one exhibition game that each team plays, the other teams play 4 games. At worst this is 2 games less than the 6 a team playing in the qualifying round may have to play or is equal to the 4 if they sweep their opponent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Based on an exhibition game?

Who would you sit?

The Penguins live and die on speed and a quick transition game. I'm not trying to make excuses but if the surface is a giant slushee it certainly kneecaps a lot of what they probably want to do. But I guess that's playing hockey in August for you. Though I was told no fans in attendance would magically solve this problem.

 

[Andy99]

You have to realize that HFPens is insanely jaded and will complain about almost anything

If the Penguins play an entire series like that minus the dumb turnovers (specifically ones like the Malkin turnover), they'll easily beat the Habs and will probably beat the Flyers. It may not be enough to beat the Bruins and Lightning, you definitely need a functional PP to win those series, but it's at least enough to get to the 2nd or 3rd round.

Let me ask you a question around here that I’ve been asking but no one seems to answer directly—if the Pens are only good enough to reach the EC 2nd round or ECF but no further, isn’t it better to lose to MTL now and keep our first round pick? I think it is and MTL fans feel the same...if you know your team has a small chance of ever getting to the SCF, isn’t it better to lose immediately?

 

[Peat]

Ice looked pretty shit, to me. That's at least one big reason why both teams looked like slugs.

Hopefully they can get that sorted but I doubt it.

From an Athletic article:

On the other hand, ice quality seems like it’ll be an issue. Summer in Toronto is still summer, and three games a day is still a lot. By the end of Flyers-Penguins, stuff was a mess. None of the players complained all that much — shocking stuff — and the most interesting bit came from Flyers coach Alain Vigneault.
“Usually it takes a good week of skating (on an ice rink) for the ice to be good,” he said. “So I see it getting better, even though it is hot, it is humid and there’s going to be a lot of activity.”



Guess we'll see whether Vigneault is taking out of his posterior or not.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think he's trying to be hopeful and put a positive spin on it but I suppose we'll see. It certainly doesn't make much sense at all to me that somehow conditions improve the more it's used and the hotter it gets as the days go on. But I don't manage ice surfaces professionally and I've never watched NHL hockey in August so this is all a bit new to me, as well.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Habs have no depth. If our depth and higher talent cannot overcome them...

Their D is basically Weber, Petry and a bunch of jobbers. Even Petry is not that good. Offensively, sure, but defensively, he kinda sucks. Weber is too old to be playing 30 minutes a night. We should be able to sustain pressure in their zone.

They have one good forward lines and a few good players... but their best forward would be like... our 5th? Even with Domi on L4, their bottom 6 is atrocious. The Suzuki line could be good, but is not good enough to beat Sid OR Geno. The Danault line could win its match up... and Sully will probably nullify that by deploying BART against Danault.

 

[RSPens]

Let me ask you a question around here that I’ve been asking but no one seems to answer directly—if the Pens are only good enough to reach the EC 2nd round or ECF but no further, isn’t it better to lose to MTL now and keep our first round pick? I think it is and MTL fans feel the same...if you know your team has a small chance of ever getting to the SCF, isn’t it better to lose immediately?

The problem with this is that JR, Sully, the players, the owners, most fans...see them as being a contender until Geno and Sid retire, so no, accepting a qualifying round loss because you want a draft pick is not going to happen around here. Until Sid is gone its cup or the season was a failure.

 

[Andy99]

The problem with this is that JR, Sully, the players, the owners, most fans...see them as being a contender until Geno and Sid retire, so no, accepting a qualifying round loss because you want a draft pick is not going to happen around here. Until Sid is gone its cup or the season was a failure.

i know none of the players would want that or try to lose..same with management...I’m just saying, as a fan, I don’t see the Pens as good enough to win the Cup and I’d like them to have a better chance at Lafreniere

 

[Scandale du Jour]

i know none of the players would want that or try to lose..same with management...I’m just saying, as a fan, I don’t see the Pens as good enough to win the Cup and I’d like them to have a better chance at Lafreniere

If I had to rank my desired outcomes:

1) Win the Cup
2) Lose against the Habs and win the lottery
3) Win the conference, lose the SCF
4) Lose in the second round
5) Lose in the first round
6) Lose against the Habs and lose the lottery

If 6 happens, I am not keeping the pick unless I am convinced I can add a player that will help VERY soon.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let me ask you a question around here that I’ve been asking but no one seems to answer directly—if the Pens are only good enough to reach the EC 2nd round or ECF but no further, isn’t it better to lose to MTL now and keep our first round pick? I think it is and MTL fans feel the same...if you know your team has a small chance of ever getting to the SCF, isn’t it better to lose immediately?

The Penguins are inarguably good enough to win a cup, though. If they maintain their 5v5 play to the level it can be and have a functional powerplay and goaltending, this team is definitely going deep and can win a cup.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

One positive I do have to mention from the game was Malkin. With his two assists.

 

[Peat]

I think he's trying to be hopeful and put a positive spin on it but I suppose we'll see. It certainly doesn't make much sense at all to me that somehow conditions improve the more it's used and the hotter it gets as the days go on. But I don't manage ice surfaces professionally and I've never watched NHL hockey in August so this is all a bit new to me, as well.

It tentatively makes sense for me that a surface - more general than ice so super tentative - might get less prone to the top edge coming off for more use? Maybe?

Let me ask you a question around here that I’ve been asking but no one seems to answer directly—if the Pens are only good enough to reach the EC 2nd round or ECF but no further, isn’t it better to lose to MTL now and keep our first round pick? I think it is and MTL fans feel the same...if you know your team has a small chance of ever getting to the SCF, isn’t it better to lose immediately?

I don't think there's really such a thing as good enough to reach the last 8/4 but no further. I think the margins at the top of the game are thin enough, and the game is random enough, that if you get there that you have a chance. Maybe it exists for a few teams who would have to play absolutely out of their skin just to win one series, but that's a distinct minority in the playoffs. Certainly not us. If the team gets together enough to get past the 1st/2nd round, it's good enough to go all the way with a reasonable amount of luck (which every team requires).

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, if I'm JR, I'm talking to Sheary about an extension now before he has the chance of going on a run in the playoffs. Sheary has looked legitimately great since coming back to the Penguins and he looks primed to go on a run in the playoffs. If Sheary's running at a half PPG or higher in the playoffs, I don't see a justification for not re-signing him.

If I had to bet, I'd say that Sheary wants to stay in Pittsburgh and would probably value term over money. I'd make that bet if I was JR.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Also, if I'm JR, I'm talking to Sheary about an extension now before he has the chance of going on a run in the playoffs. Sheary has looked legitimately great since coming back to the Penguins and he looks primed to go on a run in the playoffs. If Sheary's running at a half PPG or higher in the playoffs, I don't see a justification for not re-signing him.

If I had to bet, I'd say that Sheary wants to stay in Pittsburgh and would probably value term over money. I'd make that bet if I was JR.

I do not dislike Sheary as much as most... but I would not want to lock myself into playing him as RW1... which is the only place he really fits on this team. We need to upgrade on him to maximize Jake and Sid, IMO.

Do you see him playing LW3? Can we justify the cost if we have to play him there?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I do not dislike Sheary as much as most... but I would not want to lock myself into playing him as RW1... which is the only place he really fits on this team. We need to upgrade on him to maximize Jake and Sid, IMO.

Do you see him playing LW3? Can we justify the cost if we have to play him there?

I see him playing LW3 if Poulin pushes him to LW3, just like he was playing LW3 with Brassard/Sheahan and Hornqvist in his last season in Pittsburgh. In fact, that seems to be the absolute best way to set up the top-9 going forward. Have Poulin ease his way in on the 3rd line and Sheary be a placeholder with Crosby, and when Poulin's ready for top-6 duty, bump Sheary down to the 3rd line.

This also doesn't talk about the expansion draft. Re-signing Sheary gives Seattle another attractive forward option that may prevent them from taking a goalie or someone like Blueger.

 

[905PENS]

There is also a round robin seeding for the other teams. So including the one exhibition game that each team plays, the other teams play 4 games. At worst this is 2 games less than the 6 a team playing in the qualifying round may have to play or is equal to the 4 if they sweep their opponent.

How does the round robin even work I'm totally confused by it...act like you're telling it to a child because apparently I'm drawing a blank here

 

[Peat]

The Penguins are inarguably good enough to win a cup, though. If they maintain their 5v5 play to the level it can be and have a functional powerplay and goaltending, this team is definitely going deep and can win a cup.

This team spent a large portion of the season as one of the best defensive teams. It also has four ppg forwards. The idea that a team in that position isn't good enough to win the Cup takes a lot of rationalisation - a lot of focusing on weaknesses and questions and handwaving away of strengths (and other teams' weaknesses and questions). Obviously we're probably not winning because that's how it works but a "don't even bother picking up the dice" chance? That is some weapons grade refusal to be optimistic, or even realistic.

One positive I do have to mention from the game was Malkin. With his two assists.

I laughed but I'm not giving this a like damnit. In fact, boo this man!

I do not dislike Sheary as much as most... but I would not want to lock myself into playing him as RW1... which is the only place he really fits on this team. We need to upgrade on him to maximize Jake and Sid, IMO.

Do you see him playing LW3? Can we justify the cost if we have to play him there?

I see him playing LW3 if Poulin pushes him to LW3, just like he was playing LW3 with Bjugstad and Hornqvist in his last season in Pittsburgh. In fact, that seems to be the absolute best way to set up the top-9 going forward. Have Poulin ease his way in on the 3rd line and Sheary be a placeholder with Crosby, and when Poulin's ready for top-6 duty, bump Sheary down to the 3rd line.

This also doesn't talk about the expansion draft. Re-signing Sheary gives Seattle another attractive forward option that may prevent them from taking a goalie or someone like Blueger.

Empo, you're getting Sheary and Simon confused. Sheary was gone by the time Bjugstad was here. Sheary's third line with Horny was with Sheahan, which was dope in a short sample. And Sheary's generally been great with Hornqvist. I'm not sure it's my favourite option but the idea of Sheary and Hornqvist together is something I'm pretty happy with. It does give a bit of playmaking to the line, which is my one big demand.

I'm not entirely sure I trust Sheary to make this seem a good idea all play-off though...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I see him playing LW3 if Poulin pushes him to LW3, just like he was playing LW3 with Bjugstad and Hornqvist in his last season in Pittsburgh. In fact, that seems to be the absolute best way to set up the top-9 going forward. Have Poulin ease his way in on the 3rd line and Sheary be a placeholder with Crosby, and when Poulin's ready for top-6 duty, bump Sheary down to the 3rd line.

This also doesn't talk about the expansion draft. Re-signing Sheary gives Seattle another attractive forward option that may prevent them from taking a goalie or someone like Blueger.

Fair enough... depending on the price.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Empo, you're getting Sheary and Simon confused. Sheary was gone by the time Bjugstad was here. Sheary's third line with Horny was with Sheahan, which was dope in a short sample. And Sheary's generally been great with Hornqvist. I'm not sure it's my favourite option but the idea of Sheary and Hornqvist together is something I'm pretty happy with. It does give a bit of playmaking to the line, which is my one big demand.

I'm not entirely sure I trust Sheary to make this seem a good idea all play-off though...

You're right I'm mixing some stuff up, I'm getting Bjugstad and Brassard mixed up. The Penguins ran a lot with Sheary-Brassard-Hornqvist in 2018, and you're also right with Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist.

That's fair to question Sheary in that way, but Sheary has looked great since coming back to the Penguins. Whether Sheary stays depends on how he does in the playoffs, so if he does well, I think you have to find a way to make it work. Especially if he's willing to re-sign at a good price.

 

[ColePens]

2 things look to be a potential downfall in the postseason.

1) Powerplay/special teams: It is a big deal to have teams win the Cup. Gonchar had MASSIVE goals for us in 2009. We know the powerplay is important. @KIRK said in even the scrimmages there is NO movement. NO movement. And I hate giving that guy credit. But it had even less movement yesterday. It needs movement. Simple as that.

2) Goaltending/defense: Both need to be in sync. If you had to ask me right now based on the LIMITED action I see - Jarry looks better. But Murray is legit a big time player who has a track record better than some full careers. So it's hard to not go back to that well. It happens.

Both need to get going big time.

 

[Hamurai]

If I had to rank my desired outcomes:

1) Win the Cup
2) Lose against the Habs and win the lottery
3) Win the conference, lose the SCF
4) Lose in the second round
5) Lose in the first round
6) Lose against the Habs and lose the lottery

If 6 happens, I am not keeping the pick unless I am convinced I can add a player that will help VERY soon.

I would move #6 to #3 just based on getting that pick back. I agree we should probably then move it to make the team better for 2021.