Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Ducks | 4-1 win | Geno rocks our socks |

[Shady Machine]

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Carter - Malkin - Kapanen
ZAR - Blueger - McGinn
Zucker- E-Rod - Heinen

I'd personally swap out ZAR, but I'm trying to be realistic considering Sullivan loves ZAR and that line.

Damn that looks good assuming health and chemistry.

 

[vodeni]

On a semi-related Twitter note, it looks as though Madden and Kovacevic seem to be having a slapping match with each other.

could not happen to better people

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You know what it's probably a mistake but I'm gonna put a little respect on rondu's name for even showing up and talking shop today lol

I know it's been a weird year and a disappointing last few years in general but it's pretty tough not to be excited about what this team can do down the stretch. A team that was already great just got a big shot in the arm (contrary to some truly batshit commentary leading up to Malkin's return). Nothing is perfect and I still have a few big concerns but hey.

re: ZAR... in some ways it's like Zucker to me. How much more do we really have to see? I don't hate either guy but some truths have to be pretty evident at this point in time, yes? Maybe for Sullivan some tough truths?

 

[dogthateats]

I was hoping that Malkin’s return sparked some Jagr and Toews debate!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol Toews

Having to listen to fans put that guy in the same category as Sid/Geno for way-too-many-years was pretty insulting. Looks even worse now that he's an accomplice to...

Well I'll just let that one sit, huh?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I know haha.

Maybe I'm just a crazy fanatic that can't see the amazing benefit to ZAR like Sully can...he screams safe but in the sense of he won't provide offensively and if his defensive prowess has a lapse there's zero room for him to be a positive impact. Why do that when we have a potential option that can do fine defensively with more offensive potential?

Reason being it looks worse if it fails where as if ZAR fails the coach can say 'it was our best lineup option.'

Problem is a cup run will take a spark from unsung heroes. ZAR ain't it.

If memory serves, the BART line got skunked pretty often last playoffs. Realize it was a small sample size because largely that line had barely gotten scored on during the RS.

But I despise "defensive lines" because that means you don't have the damn puck. BART (or whatever you want to call Blu and Zar) isn't even in the same stratosphere as Staal-Cooke-Kennedy. And Sully had success with lines that were more offensive minded vs the contrary.

During the Cup runs he had 3 scoring lines plus Cullen (who was more than a defensive specialist even at that point in his career). It's like Sully has 180'd his approach to line configurations. I just don't get deviating so hard from what brought you success?

 

[ColePens]

You know what it's probably a mistake but I'm gonna put a little respect on rondu's name for even showing up and talking shop today lol

I know it's been a weird year and a disappointing last few years in general but it's pretty tough not to be excited about what this team can do down the stretch. A team that was already great just got a big shot in the arm (contrary to some truly batshit commentary leading up to Malkin's return). Nothing is perfect and I still have a few big concerns but hey.

re: ZAR... in some ways it's like Zucker to me. How much more do we really have to see? I don't hate either guy but some truths have to be pretty evident at this point in time, yes? Maybe for Sullivan some tough truths?

I always say a solid 40-60 games need to be played to really get the idea of how a player will fit. Zucker has tools we need/like, but it just doesn't fit this team. I agree. Not apples to apples comparison but he doesn't fit this team like Brassard didn't fit this team. Not comparing the players, just how obvious it sticks out that these players don't fit.

ZAR is different. He has purpose but it's just so bland.

 

[Beau Knows]

lol Toews

Having to listen to fans put that guy in the same category as Sid/Geno for way-too-many-years was pretty insulting. Looks even worse now that he's an accomplice to...

Well I'll just let that one sit, huh?

The guest list at this round table discussion will only get funnier as more time passes:



Arguably 4 of the 5 best players ever...and Toews.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I always say a solid 40-60 games need to be played to really get the idea of how a player will fit. Zucker has tools we need/like, but it just doesn't fit this team. I agree. Not apples to apples comparison but he doesn't fit this team like Brassard didn't fit this team. Not comparing the players, just how obvious it sticks out that these players don't fit.

ZAR is different. He has purpose but it's just so bland.

Yeah I agree with @Thats What She Said above. I truly don't hate ZAR. Ya know? He's "competent" and "safe." Coaches love that because it makes their job easier.

But playing it JUST "competent" and "safe" never really got people too far, right?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I was hoping that Malkin’s return sparked some Jagr and Toews debate!

Wait 'til we get to my thoughts on which Chicago deep dish place is actually good!

 

[ColePens]

Yeah I agree with @Thats What She Said above. I truly don't hate ZAR. Ya know? He's "competent" and "safe." Coaches love that because it makes their job easier.

But playing it JUST "competent" and "safe" never really got people too far, right?

Yep exactly. And I agree with @Thats What She Said as well about that line being a complete ghost/fraud when it mattered.

 

[Peat]

My issue is less for/against Kap than it is having a quicker and defensively responsible player as that 3rd wheel if Geno and Carter are a thing.

A quicker player than Kapanen?! I've got some bad news for you there chief...

Agreed. I'd also hope it'd lead to moving Zucker because he's just not been a good fit there, and he's not really needed on the 3rd. Or, conversely, move ZAR and demote Zuck, but I don't think that's going to happen just because of the cap hit.

This season I'm happy to see them roll Zuck and ZAR on the 3rd and 4th line. Next season I'd hand the spots to Zohorna and DOC (probably keep Simon around in case they don't take them), but right now I think they're doing well enough and I'm not jonesing to delete depth (although it'd be nice if both started shooting near their career numbers again).

On the basis of pure talent, I still maintain Geno's the best of his generation, just that Sid's more hardworking and Ovechkin is more physically gifted.

Toews can go to Giordanno's and eat shit.

I often feel that way then Sid does some stupid sleight of hand thing and I wonder about it. I sometimes think Geno's skillset looks flashier with the shot and the stickhandling, but that Crosby's co-ordination and balance is no less of a talent.

I also feel like mental consistency is probably the biggest edge (although maybe that's part of what you meant with hardworking). Geno's off-days and mistakes are probably overblown, but there's more of them compared to a fit Sid. Not only is it harder to knock his confidence, but the way Sid processes the game is just freaky.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, ultimately Sid's longevity and mental game puts him above the other two. I just wish Geno could have gotten some of Sasha's horse drugs for those longer seasons.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Yeah I agree with @Thats What She Said above. I truly don't hate ZAR. Ya know? He's "competent" and "safe." Coaches love that because it makes their job easier.

But playing it JUST "competent" and "safe" never really got people too far, right?

ZAR doesn't move the needle in any direction and I don't think a player like that has a place on this team. This isn't the 90s. Everyone needs to make an impact.

 

[NastyNick]

Glad that Geno had a good game. Its a start. I'm still not sold that he'll be a positive impact on this team over the long term though. Hes proven he can show up in spurts throughout his career - but i want to see him maintain positive play through 10+ games. It is crucial that he doesn't revert back to lazy "fly-by" Geno, as that will have a negative impact on the rest of the roster - especially Letang. Laziness is contagious

 

[Deport Ogie]

ZAR doesn't move the needle in any direction and I don't think a player like that has a place on this team. This isn't the 90s. Everyone needs to make an impact.

This is true and I get what you are trying to say but we are also now in a salary cap world so that adds a further need to balance. So while ZAR is bland and unflavored greek yogurt, he's also relatively cheap and safe which is preferable to cheap and shitty which we, as Penguins fans, are also well familiar with eh?

So I have no issue with replacing him but it has to be the right player. As others have said, we probably do have that player right now but in other years we have not.

 

[Peat]

If memory serves, the BART line got skunked pretty often last playoffs. Realize it was a small sample size because largely that line had barely gotten scored on during the RS.

But I despise "defensive lines" because that means you don't have the damn puck. BART (or whatever you want to call Blu and Zar) isn't even in the same stratosphere as Staal-Cooke-Kennedy. And Sully had success with lines that were more offensive minded vs the contrary.

During the Cup runs he had 3 scoring lines plus Cullen (who was more than a defensive specialist even at that point in his career). It's like Sully has 180'd his approach to line configurations. I just don't get deviating so hard from what brought you success?

BART controlled the chance battle, drew it against Barzal, put up 2 goals in 6 (one of them big) which is more than meeting 4th line expectations, and if the overall stats look bad it's probably on the goaltending.

Also, if we're comparing them to Cullen, then

BART vs NYI SF/60 37.89 GF/60 2.11 xGF/60 2.49
Cullen/Kuhn in 16 and 17 SF/60 23.73 GF/60 1.65xGF/60 1.73

BART's stats with NYI roasted Cullen/Kuhnhackl's attacking stats in the cup runs (Cullen's individual numbers are all lower than BART's too).

There's no shift in approach. They're the same unit purpose as Cullen, only with better offence. They usually had the puck.

As for Staal-Cooke-Kennedy in 08-09 - a line that had a 30.77 GF%, or a -5 in 211 minutes if you want to express it that way - they too had lower attacking stats than BART

I'm not married to ZAR-Blueger, but if we want to compare them to heroes of yore, I don't see a lot of room to criticise what they did - particularly from an offensive point of view.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Calling Letang a simpleton who's peer pressured into being lazy is a new one to me, to be honest.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Calling Letang a simpleton who's peer pressured into being lazy is a new one to me, to be honest.

It's the Super Genius cliff notes to xenophobia. He was making the same argument on the tweetbox yesterday about 30 minutes before the game started and Geno made him look like an idiot. Again.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Can we actually start like... citing examples of Malkin negatively impacting the team? When has this happened? This entire narrative is truly baffling to me... where did it come from?

This is Madden shit isn't it?

Like I'm not even mad just confused.

 

[dogthateats]

I thought Malkin played well but I want to see him play 1,000 career games with over a point per game average.
1,107 points in 941 games is a little lucky/lazy.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

BART controlled the chance battle, drew it against Barzal, put up 2 goals in 6 (one of them big) which is more than meeting 4th line expectations, and if the overall stats look bad it's probably on the goaltending.

Also, if we're comparing them to Cullen, then

BART vs NYI SF/60 37.89 GF/60 2.11 xGF/60 2.49
Cullen/Kuhn in 16 and 17 SF/60 23.73 GF/60 1.65xGF/60 1.73

BART's stats with NYI roasted Cullen/Kuhnhackl's attacking stats in the cup runs (Cullen's individual numbers are all lower than BART's too).

There's no shift in approach. They're the same unit purpose as Cullen, only with better offence. They usually had the puck.

As for Staal-Cooke-Kennedy in 08-09 - a line that had a 30.77 GF%, or a -5 in 211 minutes if you want to express it that way - they too had lower attacking stats than BART

I'm not married to ZAR-Blueger, but if we want to compare them to heroes of yore, I don't see a lot of room to criticise what they did - particularly from an offensive point of view.

Fair rebuttal. My eyes/rememberance just don't match what the stats are saying

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm just gonna come right out and say it... Cooke/Staal/Kennedy was overrated.

 

[Deport Ogie]

I thought Malkin played well but I want to see him play 1,000 career games with over a point per game average.
1,107 points in 941 games is a little lucky/lazy.

It's a fair cop. Also I think it's about damn time we see him in some games of consequence to see how he performs. Maybe a few game 7's or some playoff OT winners or something. Is it too much to ask that a supposed "generational superstar" be in a Conn Smythe discussion for once???

 

[ColePens]

Can we actually start like... citing examples of Malkin negatively impacting the team? When has this happened? This entire narrative is truly baffling to me... where did it come from?

This is Madden shit isn't it?

Like I'm not even mad just confused.

At best.. and i mean at absolute BEST - i would say I can lump him in with the entire team for not being great in the playoffs the last 3 years.

But we definitely know blaming 1 or 2 people for the last 3 years is absurd. 90% of the team each year can be called out.