Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Ducks | 4-1 win | Geno rocks our socks |

[wgknestrick]

Agreed. I'd also hope it'd lead to moving Zucker because he's just not been a good fit there, and he's not really needed on the 3rd. Or, conversely, move ZAR and demote Zuck, but I don't think that's going to happen just because of the cap hit.

ZAR is way better than Zucker. ZAR is great because he can neutralize ANY L1 with Blueger and McGinn which leaves Crosby and Malkin's line with a focus on L2-L3 domination. If you are playing ZAR against a L3, then yes he has little value because he's neutralizing a small threat. I still want everyone here to understand that ZAR still outscores whatever opposition he is played against (58% GF% this season) while also having the most DZone starts and fewest offensive zone (his entire line does). He looks terrible doing it, flubs tons of chances, but still outscores and that is all that matters. When he's off the ice that line does score slightly more, but unfortunately also gets scored on WAY more. Net negative.


He helps drag McGinn and Blues (The 2 lowest red boxes) up towards the positive area while also having TOUGH assignments. There is absolutely value in that and that line keeps us from hating Crosby and Malkin's lines. They are too old to consistently win against top playoff L1s any more.

The most worrisome forwards are Simon, Carter, and Zucker with respect of actually outscoring the other team. Simon and Zucker don't really have any upside IMO, and Carter can hopefully get back to last year's form on Malkin's wing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't think I really care if ZAR stays or goes, to be honest. I'm just saying that if you have Carter on 2LW and ZAR on the 3rd, then there's absolutely no point keeping Zucker here because he's not going to play on L1 with Crosby or on L4.

 

[wgknestrick]

true, but 1 more Cup would be LEGENDARY

They are big underdogs against TOR, TBL, FLA, and CAR who are by far the best in the league and are in their core's prime. We are on the 2nd (WSH, VGK, COL, CGY) tier currently. BUT there are the players here to be on that top tier if Sully can make the "tough" decisions on the roster and bench a lot of salary. That backup goalie is a huge weakness and we don't have the muscle to protect him in a series against a TOR, FLA, or TBL.

 

[ColePens]

true, but 1 more Cup would be LEGENDARY

I think they already are legendary. I dont think it can be any more legendary with or without a 4th!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think anyone expects it. Hell at this point I'd just be happy to see hockey past the first round.

But man...

 

[K Fleur]

It’d be cool just to see them make some noise in the playoffs again.

But the season has been over since that random November game so it’s a moot point.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think they already are legendary. I dont think it can be any more legendary with or without a 4th!

4th cup puts them in the Gretzky and Messier conversation in terms of success together.

 

[vodeni]

ZAR is way better than Zucker. ZAR is great because he can neutralize ANY L1 with Blueger and McGinn which leaves Crosby and Malkin's line with a focus on L2-L3 domination. If you are playing ZAR against a L3, then yes he has little value because he's neutralizing a small threat. I still want everyone here to understand that ZAR still outscores whatever opposition he is played against (58% GF% this season) while also having the most DZone starts and fewest offensive zone (his entire line does). He looks terrible doing it, flubs tons of chances, but still outscores and that is all that matters. When he's off the ice that line does score slightly more, but unfortunately also gets scored on WAY more. Net negative.


He helps drag McGinn and Blues (The 2 lowest red boxes) up towards the positive area while also having TOUGH assignments. There is absolutely value in that and that line keeps us from hating Crosby and Malkin's lines. They are too old to consistently win against top playoff L1s any more.

The most worrisome forwards are Simon, Carter, and Zucker with respect of actually outscoring the other team. Simon and Zucker don't really have any upside IMO, and Carter can hopefully get back to last year's form on Malkin's wing.

No one disputes ZAR stats, he has not scored a goal in I don't know how many games, I just think if you put for example Zohorna or someone who can transition play faster and create more dangerous possessions in the offensive zone on that line and McGinn not much will change as far as defensive work goes but it will hugely improve %GF...imagine that going down L1 , L2, L3, L4...when everyone is healthy, Teddy will start looking like Bergeron there...

 

[Peat]

I'm not sure a 4th cup would hugely change their legacy in Pittsburgh but I think it'd be huge beyond it. I know Geno's talked very openly about wanting to be the first Russian with four cups. Tanger's HoF case would be hugely boosted too, and I think it'd change the conversation on Sid as the clear 5th best of all time.

I also think that the difference between at least getting close in the twilight years and never getting past the 1st round again might factor in a little. I mean, shit, you can see it in how we talk about things here. The difference between a 1st round loss and a Conference final loss would make a big difference to how we view the team this summer, and that will include the big three's legacy at least a little.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Another thing I noticed about Malkin coming back... did his knee surgery fix his shot? Compared to last year it seemed to have a LOT more zip, accuracy and efficiency as far as mechanics are concerned. That clapper was pretty vintage and looked fairly effortless and quick.

Obviously weight transference while shooting is absolutely a thing and a bum knee can really mess with that. I should know. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

[wgknestrick]

No one disputes ZAR stats, he has not scored a goal in I don't know how many games, I just think if you put for example Zohorna or someone who can transition play faster and create more dangerous possessions in the offensive zone on that line and McGinn not much will change as far as defensive work goes but it will hugely improve %GF...imagine that going down L1 , L2, L3, L4...when everyone is healthy, Teddy will start looking like Bergeron there...

But do you still play that line against L1s or do you sacrifice Crosby's line to those matchups and watch his +- start to plummet again? It's pretty clear (to me at least) that ZAR is the one who enables that line's "wet blanket" role. Blueger and McGinn are not a good GF% combination without him on it.

IMO, you are absolutely wasting Zohorna on that L3 with Blueger under C. Zohorna might be a perfect L2 wing IMO and I'd love to see him get some net front, crease time on PP2. Z with ERod at C would be great too. We can all agree that if PIT are going to dress a wing with a "Z" on their back, I'd much rather it be Zohorna than Zucker.

 

[wgknestrick]

Another thing I noticed about Malkin coming back... did his knee surgery fix his shot? Compared to last year it seemed to have a LOT more zip, accuracy and efficiency as far as mechanics are concerned. That clapper was pretty vintage and looked fairly effortless and quick.

Obviously weight transference while shooting is absolutely a thing and a bum knee can really mess with that. I should know. Just thought I'd mention it.

I think the time off allowed his shoulder to heal properly and he obviously strength trained it. His shot was absent for the entirety of last season, but looked great last night.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the time off allowed his shoulder to heal properly and he obviously strength trained it. His shot was absent for the entirety of last season, but looked great last night.

That could be a lot of it, too. I know at some point his elbow was banged up, as well. Clearly the time off was spent working pretty hard as well as rehabbing. 9 goals last year was a little worrisome, even in so few games. Particularly because you could tell he wasn't completely snakebit... there just wasn't the usual pop and quickness/efficiency-of-motion in his shot. If last night was any indication, he is hopefully on his way back to pacing closer to his old form in that department.

You get Malkin shooting like that the rest of the year and the powerplay... no matter how it's configured around the edges... is gonna clean up.

 

[Beau Knows]

It's so excited the way the team's been playing to have Malkin come back looking great.

I'm glad Burke has already talked about how we won't go all out at the deadline, this team doesn't need that much imo, a depth defenceman and a backup goalie would go a long way.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh also regarding that Sid/Malkin/Letang 16 seasons together stat?

They do it again next season and they are tied for first... all time... in ALL sports. 17 seasons for the trio of Jeter, Posada, and Rivera for the Yanks.

So, like... uh... light this f***ing candle, already Hex.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

That could be a lot of it, too. I know at some point his elbow was banged up, as well. Clearly the time off was spent working pretty hard as well as rehabbing. 9 goals last year was a little worrisome, even in so few games. Particularly because you could tell he wasn't completely snakebit... there just wasn't the usual pop and quickness/efficiency-of-motion in his shot. If last night was any indication, he is hopefully on his way back to pacing closer to his old form in that department.

You get Malkin shooting like that the rest of the year and the powerplay... no matter how it's configured around the edges... is gonna clean up.

Well it's nice to finally have a threat on that left circle again thanks to Erod. Malkin's top of the right circle possibility is back.
Now you've really stretched the box (Thatswhatshesaid) of the Pkers. We may see more of a bumper role from Jake since there presumably will be more space in the slot area.

I'm excited about the PP again after wishing we could just decline the penalty the first 15 games of the season. It was a real momentum suck

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well it's nice to finally have a threat on that left circle again thanks to Erod. Malkin's top of the right circle possibility is back.
Now you've really stretched the box (Thatswhatshesaid) of the Pkers. We may see more of a bumper role from Jake since there presumably will be more space in the slot area.

I'm excited about the PP again after wishing we could just decline the penalty the first 15 games of the season. It was a real momentum suck

Yeah TBH ERod occupying that LHW has really helped reinvigorate things quite a bit. Having an option for a one-timer over there opens things up.

 

[vodeni]

Yeah TBH ERod occupying that LHW has really helped reinvigorate things quite a bit. Having an option for a one-timer over there opens things up.

well, he did not manage to get in the position last night at all, For some reason after faceoffs Sid and Geno occupied that LW position and they did not have chance to set it properly. The x factor is Tanger's QBacking and trying to set up these two guys for onetimers. Thats the hard part.

 

[Andy99]

No one disputes ZAR stats, he has not scored a goal in I don't know how many games, I just think if you put for example Zohorna or someone who can transition play faster and create more dangerous possessions in the offensive zone on that line and McGinn not much will change as far as defensive work goes but it will hugely improve %GF...imagine that going down L1 , L2, L3, L4...when everyone is healthy, Teddy will start looking like Bergeron there...

and the extra benefits of not having L4 players who play only 3-4 minutes a night like Angello and Bjorkqvist did last night, thus allowing Sid and Carter to stop playing over 20 minutes a night…ideally Sid, G and Carter play about 18 minutes…Sully needs to trust a fourth line

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, I really don't get that L4 usage. But that's been a bone of contention for seasons now.

What's the point of even dressing a guy for 4-5 minutes if he's not a face puncher? If he's that great of a liability, shouldn't he not be in the lineup?

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I really don't get that L4 usage. But that's been a bone of contention for seasons now.

What's the point of even dressing a guy for 4-5 minutes if he's not a face puncher? If he's that great of a liability, shouldn't he not be in the lineup?

Those were are our 16th and 17th choice forwards. Them falling between "better than dressing nobody" and "not good enough to be used more than sparingly" shouldn't really be a surprise. It's not like Sully doesn't use his actual 4th line when fit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Those were are our 16th and 17th choice forwards. Them falling between "better than dressing nobody" and "not good enough to be used more than sparingly" shouldn't really be a surprise. It's not like Sully doesn't use his actual 4th line when fit.

I get that, but man, 5 minutes a night is literally like Krzysztof Oliwa-esque ice time. It's essentially double shifting Rodrigues anyhow, which IIRC is exactly what happened last night.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Glad that Geno had a good game. Its a start. I'm still not sold that he'll be a positive impact on this team over the long term though. Hes proven he can show up in spurts throughout his career - but i want to see him maintain positive play through 10+ games. It is crucial that he doesn't revert back to lazy "fly-by" Geno, as that will have a negative impact on the rest of the roster - especially Letang. Laziness is contagious

Is this sarcasm? It has to be right? You're talking about the Hall of Fame, 1,000 point scorer with three Cups, a Smythe, and every other award? Three 100 point seasons? Every season a PPG or more but one over 16 years? That player?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Oh also regarding that Sid/Malkin/Letang 16 seasons together stat?

They do it again next season and they are tied for first... all time... in ALL sports. 17 seasons for the trio of Jeter, Posada, and Rivera for the Yanks.

So, like... uh... light this f***ing candle, already Hex.

I personally think that's pretty cool, man. Make it happen.

 

[BigEezyE22]

I think the laughable thing... Sid/G/Letang don't need to prove a single thing. 2 are 100% ALL TIME greats and the other is a shoe-in HOFer in my opinion. They don't need to prove anything else in their career. If they somehow get more points and manage 1 more Cup - it really doesn't change their legacy in any way. Everything said above is legit set in stone.

Cup wins in 3 separate decades. Who else has done that?