Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Devils - Wow... that happened

[AjaxTelamon]

i would love for rutherford to bring in two top six forwards. i just don't think it's gonna be possible, and i'd rather get one homerun than two lesser lights. in that situation you have to put beau in the top six. dupuis-sutter-bennett would be a great third line. i don't think dupuis-sutter-downie/comeau is THAT much of a downgrade.

as long as we're bringing in at least one guy, this is a can't lose situation

on another note... i might give sutter kunitz quicker than bennett. unless we ditch kunitz at some point that third line is going to be kunitz-sutter-dupuis, i'd have to assume. maybe as soon as a year

If you don't give Sutter BB, then you'd better give him Comeau. I can't imagine a bigger possession black hole than Kunitz/Sutter/Dupuis. I don't know if I can watch 11m worth of dudes who can't pass the puck to one another.

I don't know what you do with Kunitz if his skills degrade any further and he gets any lazier. He won't be an effective bottom sixer with his only redeeming skill being an above average wrist shot. You just hope he turns it up in the playoffs I guess.

 

[steveg]

i would love for rutherford to bring in two top six forwards. i just don't think it's gonna be possible, and i'd rather get one homerun than two lesser lights. in that situation you have to put beau in the top six. dupuis-sutter-bennett would be a great third line. i don't think dupuis-sutter-downie/comeau is THAT much of a downgrade.

as long as we're bringing in at least one guy, this is a can't lose situation

on another note... i might give sutter kunitz quicker than bennett. unless we ditch kunitz at some point that third line is going to be kunitz-sutter-dupuis, i'd have to assume. maybe as soon as a year

I agree, Dupuis-Sutter-Downie/Comeau is not THAT much of a downgrade on the third line; I also see the logic of Dupuis-Sutter-Kunitz line, with Bennett in the top 6. Bottom line is, we are very close...but JR needs to bring in at least one wing -- and hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[steveg]

If you don't give Sutter BB, then you'd better give him Comeau. I can't imagine a bigger possession black hole than Kunitz/Sutter/Dupuis. I don't know if I can watch 11m worth of dudes who can't pass the puck to one another.

I don't know what you do with Kunitz if his skills degrade any further and he gets any lazier. He won't be an effective bottom sixer with his only redeeming skill being an above average wrist shot. You just hope he turns it up in the playoffs I guess.

I guess in my mind there is a chance that if Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis were a line, that Kunitz would be FORCED to work a bit harder, as it wouldn't be as easy for him to see himself as a "sniper" on an elite line, with an elite center.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I guess in my mind there is a chance that if Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis were a line, that Kunitz would be FORCED to work a bit harder, as it wouldn't be as easy for him to see himself as a "sniper" on an elite line, with an elite center.

If you put Kunitz on that line, I think there's a chance he doesn't get another shot all year long. He's in full on Orpik saving up mode now.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I don't care who the center is, I don't want to see Kunitz and Dupuis on the same line ever.

 

[Boocock]

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Kunitz's minutes decrease during the regular season so he can save his strength for the playoffs.

 

[mpp9]

I don't care who the center is, I don't want to see Kunitz and Dupuis on the same line ever.

And if they end up on our 3rd line next year?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Ogre --

I fully agree with what you are saying. Sid and Geno need to ABSOLUTELY be put in the best possible positions to succeed. THAT is what is best for the team, and it is maximizing the greatest advantage that the Pens have (two all-world centers) over the other teams in the league.

WITH THAT SAID, your "**** Sutter" statement makes sense in the context of talking about harming Sid/Geno's lines. BUT -- the BEST THING for the team (and I know you agree with this) is to HAVE Dupuis and Bennett on Sutter's line AND have wingers on Geno's line that maximize his skills. I know this is not saying anything that is not blatantly obvious, but I REALLY hope that our GM and management see things as we do -- that the BEST THING for team is to have three very solid scoring lines, and we have ALL THE PIECES to pull this off, EXCEPT for being at least one (if not two) wings short for the second line.

Dupuis-Crosby-Hornqvist
Bennett-Malkin-Kunitz
Comeau-Sutter-Spaling

or something similar, is marginally acceptable, IMO. BUT...

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
trade-Malkin-trade
Dupuis-Sutter-Bennett, OR, as a second best,

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
trade-Malkin-trade
Dupuis-Spaling-Bennett (if Sutter is a trade piece)

is very, very solid (especially if Kunitz wakes up).

I really hope we can keep Sutter, though, and make the third line a legit scoring line. PLUS, with Dupuis-Sutter-Bennett, IF BB gets injured, it's easier to move a Spaling or a Comeau or a Downie onto the third line, and still have a VERY FORMIDABLE top-two lines, as opposed to relying on BB to be a key top-6 guy (until he proves to be more durable). BB as one of Geno's wings, and thus relieving management's need to find Geno a wing, is not the ideal scenario IMO.

My bottom line is, we are obviously a better team, MUCH tougher to match up against, with Sutter centering a third, quality scoring line, than we are with Sutter being minimized and stacking all of the scoring talent we have on the top-two lines.

I completely agree with this. My point was just that if we only add one wing, we simply cannot keep both Dupuis and Bennett out of the top 6. We can't do it.

Or hope Downie suddenly becomes better. I don't view that as very likely. Realistically, we don't have the cap space or roster spots to bring in 2 top-6 forwards (none of Spaling, Goc, Comeau or Downie should be scratched) unless someone gets hurt. If something like that were to happen (as in Downie gets hurt), I would completely be for bringing in 2 top-6 guys.

That's fine. But you can't have both Bennett and Dupuis with Sutter then. Unless, as you said, someone like Downie suddenly becomes a better player than Dupuis or Bennett. But it seems sort of silly to expect that. Dupuis-Sutter-Downie/Comeau would be plenty good as a 3rd line in that situation.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And if they end up on our 3rd line next year?

Try to trade Kunitz before anyone realizes he's a 3rd liner in that situation. I don't think he's at that point though.

 

[Waffle Fries]

And if they end up on our 3rd line next year?

Try to trade Kunitz before anyone realizes he's a 3rd liner in that situation. I don't think he's at that point though.

I agree with Ogre. I will add that with his current style of play, once Kunitz can't manage in the top six anymore, I don't think he'll be effective anywhere in the lineup.

 

[JTG]

Is it just me, or is Ehrhoff invisible? I expected a lot more from the guy, but with how he has been playing, I'm sort of glad we only have him for 1 year. At this rate, he isn't a Martin replacement, IMO.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i think we are in the process of watching kunitz's precipitous guerin-like decline.

 

[mpp9]

Is it just me, or is Ehrhoff invisible? I expected a lot more from the guy, but with how he has been playing, I'm sort of glad we only have him for 1 year. At this rate, he isn't a Martin replacement, IMO.

Not using him on the 1st unit PP. And they're playing him in a shutdown role. For now, I'm fine with him being invisible. Martin is pretty invisible when he's playing well too.

 

[Ogrezilla]

i think we are in the process of watching kunitz's precipitous guerin-like decline.

just like last October

 

[billybudd]

Is it just me, or is Ehrhoff invisible? I expected a lot more from the guy, but with how he has been playing, I'm sort of glad we only have him for 1 year. At this rate, he isn't a Martin replacement, IMO.

When the coach is giving you brutal D zone starts, invisible isn't the worst thing in the world to be.

He's not getting trapped or scored on, which could be considered a win. Last I checked, he and Martin have been on for exactly one even strength goal against, which is a very good thing with the assignments they're pulling.

 

[Ogrezilla]

When the coach is giving you brutal D zone starts, invisible isn't the worst thing in the world to be.

He's not getting trapped or scored on, which could be considered a win. Last I checked, he and Martin have been on for exactly one even strength goal against, which is a very good thing with the assignments they're pulling.

indeed.

 

[ColePens]

Is it just me, or is Ehrhoff invisible? I expected a lot more from the guy, but with how he has been playing, I'm sort of glad we only have him for 1 year. At this rate, he isn't a Martin replacement, IMO.

He's also been terrible in the d-zone and fumbles the puck a lot. So has Martin, though. I can't tell if he's just terrible or if it's a system thing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He's also been terrible in the d-zone and fumbles the puck a lot. So has Martin, though. I can't tell if he's just terrible or if it's a system thing.

I don't know that I can agree. They have been scored on what, once all year? That doesn't happen with terrible d-zone play.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

He's also been terrible in the d-zone and fumbles the puck a lot. So has Martin, though. I can't tell if he's just terrible or if it's a system thing.

It might be selective memory but I am under the impression that he did that a lot more right at the beginning of the season.

 

[StaalForOne]

He's also been terrible in the d-zone and fumbles the puck a lot. So has Martin, though. I can't tell if he's just terrible or if it's a system thing.

Kunitz was never the best stickhandler, even in his career years he would mishandle pucks from time to time. Im obviously a fan of his so I'm willing to give him more time to get it together. He's still producing and he's not a liability.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

It might be selective memory but I am under the impression that he did that a lot more right at the beginning of the season.

He's steadied quite a bit, and being invisible in his current role is great. It's pretty funny people calling Ehrhoff garbage when we got to watch Orpik and Scuderi last year.

Ehrhoff's advanced stats are pretty solid too, albeit in limited sample size.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Kunitz was never the best stickhandler, even in his career years he would mishandle pucks from time to time. Im obviously a fan of his so I'm willing to give him more time to get it together. He's still producing and he's not a liability.

I think he was talking about Ehrhoff.

Kunitz has started slow before and turned it on so it could easily happen again, but it's not a secret he's playing a lazy, or at the very least a slower, style recently. It's pretty frustrating to watch.

 

[StaalForOne]

I think he was talking about Ehrhoff.

Kunitz has started slow before and turned it on so it could easily happen again, but it's not a secret he's playing a lazy, or at the very least a slower, style recently. It's pretty frustrating to watch.

Yea, I misread that. I will agree that Kunitz's game has changed a lot since he was first acquired.

I was impressed with Hoff in his pre season games, but he has looked a bit shaky in the past few. New team, new system though so give it time.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is getting that elite wing for Crosby/Malkin still as big a priority or need to do well in the playoffs?

The Pens currently lead the league in scoring:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20152ALLSAAAll&sort=avgGoalsPerGame&viewName=summary

Now granted, an eight goal game against NJ skewed those results but before that they had 25 goals in 7 games which would still put their goals per game average as third in the NHL.

I am not calling the Pens favorites, and I certainly would love to see another elite wing to play in the top six, even a couple more.

But the point of another elite wing was to stop teams from shutting the Pens down completely when Crosby and/or Malkin were taken out of the equation. I think that this team has skinned that cat another way.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Is getting that elite wing for Crosby/Malkin still as big a priority or need to do well in the playoffs?

The Pens currently lead the league in scoring:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20152ALLSAAAll&sort=avgGoalsPerGame&viewName=summary

Now granted, an eight goal game against NJ skewed those results but before that they had 25 goals in 7 games which would still put their goals per game average as third in the NHL.

I am not calling the Pens favorites, and I certainly would love to see another elite wing to play in the top six, even a couple more.

But the point of another elite wing was to stop teams from shutting the Pens down completely when Crosby and/or Malkin were taken out of the equation. I think that this team has skinned that cat another way.

Thoughts?

We are going to have this debate again?