Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Devils: #hate48

[KIRK]

This. This. And more of this.

My concern isn't that Bylsma is trying things or that he goes with certain line combinations he think will work. It's that he seems frustratingly stubborn about changing it up when his line combinations aren't working.

The insistence on playing Iginla on Malkin's LW and the refusal to even contemplate moving Iginla up to play with Crosby because he's convinced the Crosby/Kunitz/Dupuis line is unstoppable are examples of that stubbornness that I hope doesn't end up costing this team in the playoffs.

Remember 2009. After Bylsma became coach and tweaked Therriens system to be more north-south, less trapping, it became clear that Sykora couldn't cut it with Malkin and Feds. It took going down 2-0 to Washington to wake him the **** up about that, and then at least you had Fitzie to be the voice of reason. I hope it doesn't come to something similar this year, and I shudder to think what that stooge Granato's advice on lines will be if it does.

 

[KIRK]

I don't like Iginla with Malkin because even if they move Neal over to LW, that line still don't hunt because it is seriously short of board work, and hence puck control.

There's just nobody to do the dirty work with those 3, and we know from experience Malkin needs a dirty grinder type to be comfortable and playing his best.

Apparently, not everyone knows that.

 

[KIRK]

I know TK is getting a lot of heat, and well he should tonight. The guy is where offense goes to die.

This was the worst I've seen Dupuis look in a long time. A loooonnnnggg time. Couldn't keep possession, accept a pass, took a dumb penalty which led to a goal and wasn't his usual self on the fore and back ckeck.

Iggy looked completely lost out there in every area. Poor game from him as well.

The guys that stood out were Letang and Malkin. Both had great games. I love watching them when they have jump. Maffy played pretty good as well. Sutter had an off game and Jussi played well.

Not all that worried. Guys who usually are pretty consistent were the culprits. I can't wait for the playoffs to start. I'm sure we will be fine.

Oh yeah, each time I watch BB, I come away more impressed.

I think this was one of BB's weaker games, but I also think that had a lot more to do with Iginla at LW with Malkin than BB at RW.

 

[Pens1566]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you don't acquire Jarome Freaking Iginla and move him from RW to LW just for ***** and giggles. You keep him at the position he's played for years, and done quite well at btw.

Disco is losing me. I think the FO has given him his rope and he's going to hang himself with it.

 

[KIRK]

The Geno/Iggy/Neal line also needs some type of defensive skill on that line. I hate getting so pissed off before we even play one playoff game, but jesus.... how hard is it to see?

That line fails on so many levels. Let's check the sheet -
- Defensive issues? Check
- Forcing Iggy to the wrong side? Check
- Lack of chemistry? Check

It needs a puck retriever and defensive guy. It's why Bennett works on the LW.

I'll put it this way: If anyone OTHER than Bennett, Morrow, Jokinen, or Kunitz lines up on Malkin's LW for the playoffs, then that coaching decision will do more to slow down the Malkin line that the opposition will with its second defensive units.

 

[KIRK]

I hate getting dramatic, but I have a tough time disagreeing with you. At least the PP will have players in the right spot. I think.

I love getting dramatic, especially after I just posted last game about how Dupuis with Iggy and Malkin meant Duper-Sid-Iggy and Kunitz-Geno-Neal AND how Morrow playing with BB would hold for the playoffs. Yeah, even I actually was drinking the Bylsmaid.

 

[ColePens]

-anger about lineup decisions based on pure speculation - check

Do you want to add anything to discussion? I mean I can actually back it up by how they looked already. I can also back it up by Iggy playing the LW.

What can you bring to the table?

It needs a puck retriever and defensive guy. It's why Bennett works on the LW.

I'll put it this way: If anyone OTHER than Bennett, Morrow, Jokinen, or Kunitz lines up on Malkin's LW for the playoffs, then that coaching decision will do more to slow down the Malkin line that the opposition will with its second defensive units.

Beau or even Jussi, truthfully. There is a lot of strategy in how to create the best line up. DB is killing me here.

 

[mpp9]

I still maintain hope that Sid will turn it up a notch his first shift with Iggy. And then keep doing so every time they find each other together on the ice.

Sid's so good he can control lineups too.

 

[zero8771]

Do you want to add anything to discussion? I mean I can actually back it up by how they looked already. I can also back it up by Iggy playing the LW.

What can you bring to the table?




Beau or even Jussi, truthfully. There is a lot of strategy in how to create the best line up. DB is killing me here.

I guess the reality of it all is that there isnt much else to talk about until the playoffs start. We'll have to jsut see how it all pans out

 

[mpp9]

I guess the reality of it all is that there isnt much else to talk about until the playoffs start. We'll have to jsut see how it all pans out

Actually, there is. DB said during yesterday's game his lineup is based on what will happen when we're healthy.

He's willing to sacrifice the impact of a HOF RW by forcing him to the LW on a line that needs a puck retriever more than another sniper. It's utter nonsense and DB deserves to be called out on it until it changes.

 

[KIRK]

Do you want to add anything to discussion? I mean I can actually back it up by how they looked already. I can also back it up by Iggy playing the LW.

What can you bring to the table?




Beau or even Jussi, truthfully. There is a lot of strategy in how to create the best line up. DB is killing me here.

You know what's sad? You know that I've been one of the most vocal here about my doubts about Bylsma. BUT, he was starting to win me over. Some of the tactical adjustments. Even the lineup . . . I was pissed about his instincts, but what I thought that I had seen shaping up was Kunitz-Sid-Iginla as L1 and Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis as L3, which made me hope for Bennett-Malkin-Neal. I knew that there could be some tinkering with who played where, but I figured that DB was going to play Iggy with Sid (given how much he had been playing with Kunitz and then with Dupuis for Malkin's first game back) and that Bennett would dress. I can't believe how wrong I was. Or, put another way, I can't believe that I was overestimating Bylsma during my harshest critiques.

I just posted this elsewhere: If Bylsma does this, then HE-- not the goaltending, not the defense, not even the special teams or injuries-- will be the biggest impediment to the Pens reaching the finals.

Oh, and yes, I agree, Bennett or Jussi . . .

My lineup was Kunitz-Sid-Iggy, Bennett-Malkin-Neal, Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis, Cooke-Sutter-Adams. Have Jussi slot up some with Malkin and Neal (key draws, etc), and in those cases just transition seamlessly to the sweet Morrow-Dupuis-Bennett line. THAT is what I had thought was taking shape until Malkin came back.

Clearly, keeping Kunitz and Dupuis with Sid takes precedence over everything else, including playing a HOF RW out of position, making your third line a defensive liability by lining up a natural LW at RW and by depriving it of real speed, etc.

 

[zero8771]

Actually, there is. DB said during yesterday's game his lineup is based on what will happen when we're healthy.

He's willing to sacrifice the impact of a HOF RW by forcing him to the LW on a line that needs a puck retriever more than another sniper. It's utter nonsense and DB deserves to be called out on it until it changes.

Do you have a link to this. I couldnt find it

 

[mpp9]

Do you have a link to this. I couldnt find it

It was an in-game interview last night. I doubt there will be a quote online.

 

[chethejet]

Bylsma is George Siefert. He is not a big time head coach who can maximize talent. Shero has delivered players for him to position appropriately. One would think by now after four years he understands both the art and science of coaching. Do I think he is a bad coach, no. But this team with the ownership, capital and players for the most part reaching their prime deserve better.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

I was all excited about the Penguins playoff chances until I read this thread. Now I'm angry at DB and full of doubt

 

[KIRK]

Actually, there is. DB said during yesterday's game his lineup is based on what will happen when we're healthy.

He's willing to sacrifice the impact of a HOF RW by forcing him to the LW on a line that needs a puck retriever more than another sniper. It's utter nonsense and DB deserves to be called out on it until it changes.

Presumably he should watch game video afterwards to tell him what to do with his instincts.

 

[IcedCapp]

I just listened to the post game. I didnt hear him say this

I must be lying!!! you caught me!!!

Or he didn't say it during the post game (which I never said), and instead, said it during his in-game interview with Brian Englom.

But I'm probably lying.

 

[IcedCapp]

You know what's sad? You know that I've been one of the most vocal here about my doubts about Bylsma. BUT, he was starting to win me over. Some of the tactical adjustments. Even the lineup . . . I was pissed about his instincts, but what I thought that I had seen shaping up was Kunitz-Sid-Iginla as L1 and Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis as L3, which made me hope for Bennett-Malkin-Neal. I knew that there could be some tinkering with who played where, but I figured that DB was going to play Iggy with Sid (given how much he had been playing with Kunitz and then with Dupuis for Malkin's first game back) and that Bennett would dress. I can't believe how wrong I was. Or, put another way, I can't believe that I was overestimating Bylsma during my harshest critiques.

I just posted this elsewhere: If Bylsma does this, then HE-- not the goaltending, not the defense, not even the special teams or injuries-- will be the biggest impediment to the Pens reaching the finals.

Oh, and yes, I agree, Bennett or Jussi . . .

My lineup was Kunitz-Sid-Iggy, Bennett-Malkin-Neal, Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis, Cooke-Sutter-Adams. Have Jussi slot up some with Malkin and Neal (key draws, etc), and in those cases just transition seamlessly to the sweet Morrow-Dupuis-Bennett line. THAT is what I had thought was taking shape until Malkin came back.

Clearly, keeping Kunitz and Dupuis with Sid takes precedence over everything else, including playing a HOF RW out of position, making your third line a defensive liability by lining up a natural LW at RW and by depriving it of real speed, etc.

Real Talk, Kirk: would the Penguins be better off without the Iginla trade, if they are going to force Iginla - Malkin - Neal and Morrow - Sutter - Cooke?

I'll hang up and listen

 

[zero8771]

I must be lying!!! you caught me!!!

Or he didn't say it during the post game (which I never said), and instead, said it during his in-game interview with Brian Englom.

But I'm probably lying.

I wanted to hear the context. I'm trying to be optimistic. I didnt say you were lieing

 

[IcedCapp]

I wanted to hear the context. I'm trying to be optimistic. I didnt say you were lieing

I know.

edit: here's your context (I swear on the soul of my children): Englom said, "what is the thinking behind your lines tonight?" (and he included a bit about Iginla on the LW), Bylsma reply was, "Well, we expect to get people back and healthy, so our thinking is putting people where we expect them to be come playoff time" (paraphrased)

 

[nTsplnk*]

Sad this has to be said:

We'll probably be better if Neal didn't come back.

 

[Fordy]

You know what's sad? You know that I've been one of the most vocal here about my doubts about Bylsma. BUT, he was starting to win me over. Some of the tactical adjustments. Even the lineup . . . I was pissed about his instincts, but what I thought that I had seen shaping up was Kunitz-Sid-Iginla as L1 and Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis as L3, which made me hope for Bennett-Malkin-Neal. I knew that there could be some tinkering with who played where, but I figured that DB was going to play Iggy with Sid (given how much he had been playing with Kunitz and then with Dupuis for Malkin's first game back) and that Bennett would dress. I can't believe how wrong I was. Or, put another way, I can't believe that I was overestimating Bylsma during my harshest critiques.

I just posted this elsewhere: If Bylsma does this, then HE-- not the goaltending, not the defense, not even the special teams or injuries-- will be the biggest impediment to the Pens reaching the finals.

Oh, and yes, I agree, Bennett or Jussi . . .

My lineup was Kunitz-Sid-Iggy, Bennett-Malkin-Neal, Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis, Cooke-Sutter-Adams. Have Jussi slot up some with Malkin and Neal (key draws, etc), and in those cases just transition seamlessly to the sweet Morrow-Dupuis-Bennett line. THAT is what I had thought was taking shape until Malkin came back.

Clearly, keeping Kunitz and Dupuis with Sid takes precedence over everything else, including playing a HOF RW out of position, making your third line a defensive liability by lining up a natural LW at RW and by depriving it of real speed, etc.

I said the day before last night's game that I finally thought Bylsma had figured it out. Then he **** all over me for having confidence in him.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And I like
Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Bennett - Sutter - Dupuis

Better than
Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal

I actually like.

Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Bennett - Jokinen - Dupuis
Cooke, Sutter, Kennedy

Switch in Glass, Adams, Vitale, Jeffrey as needed.

 

[#66]

Has Iginla looked that good on RW, as a Penguin, that a move to the left has everybody up in arms?

I think its more about him not fitting the Penguins and Malkin than anything.

 

[Fordy]

Has Iginla looked that good on RW, as a Penguin, that a move to the left has everybody up in arms?

I think its more about him not fitting the Penguins and Malkin than anything.

Yeah, he had a goal in four straight until last night.

I do think he doesn't fit Malkin at all.