Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Cats| Loss | Save 15% or more of mistakes by switching from Letang

[OtherThingsILike]

Team gives up four goals, yet again.
'We really need secondary scoring'.
Wrong lesson.

 

[Icarium]

How the f*** did give a penalty to Marino for holding rather than Blueger for cross-checking? Not that it mattered but it puzzled me quite a bit.

We are way too lackadaisical at home, we expect either Jarry to stand on his head or the PP to win us games, the last time we took the lead early at home was a month and a half ago, IIRC. If we pull this shit in the playoffs, we will lose early for sure. Nice to see Guentzel scoring 5 on 5 but Ekblad put two pucks in his own net and we still scored only three against a team which played the previous day and is not exactly the best defensive team in the league.

We did create some chances but Malkin isn't 25 any more and can't really be relied upon to score regularly with these linemates. Kapanen barely even shoots any more, let alone score. I don't know what the answer is but if you are a winger playing with Evgeni Malkin who has a hop in his step and you are still a ghost, you just suck period. Put Zohorna out there or pick some rando from waivers or from WBS, can't be any worse.

 

[Trade]

We are way too lackadaisical at home, we expect either Jarry to stand on his head or the PP to win us games, the last time we took the lead early at home was a month and a half ago, IIRC

That first goal was a prime example of this.

It was seriously one of the worst goals that have been scored on us all year. I don’t care that it was batted out of the air…we had four skaters around him in our own zone and no one laid a finger on him. Kappy even back-checked just so he could calmly glide by him.

When we play hard on the puck, we’re extremely tough to beat. When we play like we couldn’t be f***ed to tie up a stick or shove someone in front of our net, we’re the out-in-round-one embarrassment we’ve seen for a few years.

 

[Victor Z]

You're correct, they could get very lucky with matchups this year and it won't be an issue.

But if they match with FLA or TB ouch, possible ouch with Bos and Wash.... but good matchups vs NYR, Car or Tor.

But having said all of that, the pens are the softest of the 8. And their stars have been pushed too hard for too many years and all have very short fuses.

The Pens are always the softest of any group of teams, playoffs or otherwise, and I'm not so sure that Carolina counts as a favorable matchup for the Pens. Maybe not even the Rangers.

 

[Victor Z]

Slight minus, though it didn't exactly cost us this particular game is Sullivan's absolute love affair with having ZAR next to Blueger and McGinn.

I hate ZAR with a passion and it's not even his fault. It's goddamn Sullivan's fault for how he uses him.

Demote ZAR, shoot him into the sun, whatever.... and replace him with somebody even remotely competent in the O-zone, and suddenly L3 with Teddy and McGinn becomes a legitimate threat (at least by the standards of NHL 3rd lines). With ZAR it's just another 4th line, and we hardly need two of those.

 

[Icarium]

That first goal was a prime example of this.

It was seriously one of the worst goals that have been scored on us all year. I don’t care that it was batted out of the air…we had four skaters around him in our own zone and no one laid a finger on him. Kappy even back-checked just so he could calmly glide by him.

That was probably still better defending than few other chances we allowed in the first ten minutes. A Panther player would go behind the net, pass to someone in the slot and our players would be all "When is the game starting?". If it had been just this season, I wouldn't mind it, the lead we have in the standings is pretty much insurmountable but we have seen this movie before and know how it ends.

 

[orby]

As I expected, Jarry's stats coming back down to earth is exposing some significant issues. I think this past 3 game stretch shows that this team COULD be good in the playoffs...but they are not a true contender, at least as currently constituted. The second line needs to be more of a scoring threat, among other things.

Not directly related to the game, but...discounting his slow start (2 points in his first 7 games when he was clearly not 100%), Crosby has scored 52 in 39. That's a 113 point pace. Pretty good for a 34 year old! It'd be shame if he keeps up that strong level of play for the remainder of the year and the team blows it in round 1 again.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The Pens are always the softest of any group of teams, playoffs or otherwise, and I'm not so sure that Carolina counts as a favorable matchup for the Pens. Maybe not even the Rangers.

I was trying to not to be TOO negative..... I agree.

 

[ColePens]

Kap is really really really really really bad right now. It's tough to watch him and he deserved his benching. The guy can't do a thing out there. I mean there is not a single thing he does that is right. He's just in an ultimate slump.

Marino also has dropped off a cliff. Man it's frustrating to see it. We cannot go into the playoffs with Marino/Pets as the 2nd pairing. We need defensive help more than anything.

I know you were spending a lot of times in doors due to COVID. Glad to hear you could make it out.

Once my dad got vaccinated (cancer) back waaay in Feb 2021, my life returned to normal. I'm blessed to be healthy from working out. My mom and I agreed to go to every game Patric Hornqvist was in town.

 

[Andy99]

I just think the Pens have too many flaws…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Ron Hextall and Mike Sullivan need to figure out this depth scoring thing

 

[Beau Knows]

Our top 4 forwards are playing great, but that's not going to be enough.

With Carter looking terrible after getting his contract, Rodrigues reverting back to himself and Kapanen probably needing a change of scenery - I don't trust the rest of the forward group to contribute much in a playoff series.

 

[molon labe]

so you'd rather have a corpse of Carter and Boyle than Geno...

So it's just a faceoff thing?

It just seems like a diminishing returns idea for the sake of a like 4ish percent bump in faceoffs. No disrespect I just don't get it.

Malkin on the wing? Seriously?

What is that supposed to solve? How exactly would that make us more than a one line team? Does anyone honestly think Malkin playing at center is the problem?

A suggestion like that deserves nothing but indignant rhetorical questions.

It's putting Teddy at 2C. Not ditching/dropping Malkin.

- Carter is too laterally slow for Geno's wing. Straight line speed is fine but Geno floats all over the place, and expects his linemates to bail him out when he flicks the puck away, runs out of space, or changes his position 3 times in a shift. Carter aint that guy.
- Geno's scoring chances at even strength are best created by floating around for open space....literally what a good winger does. He's playing C and acting like a wing once he enters the zone. His creativity isn't drawing guys to him and passing around as much as finding open ice and/or passing before the defense pulls to him. Heinen is wearing horse blinders (worst vision on the team outside of Petterson and McGinn) - and Carter looks lost on his wing. Nobody knows what he's trying to accomplish out there. Having Teddy drive the play and feed Malkin (while covering the defensive issues) is a better approach.
- Carter likes to mosey to center ice and chip the puck in. Geno likes to bully (friend and foe) folks off the puck. It's not unusual to have Geno crowd a board with one of our guys on the puck just to get the puck...then try a reverse pass when it doesn't work out. These two don't really mesh. Carter works better with Sid (similar role to Rust) than with Geno...or just on his own line.

Boyle is perfectly serviceable as a 4C. ESPECIALLY in a slower playoff series. His last several games have proven he can handle that with guys like ZAR and Simon. Preferably Simon gets sent to the moon. Carter and/or ERod are serviceable as 3C's. There's room for Geno to get out of the C spot if he/they were willing.

 

[molon labe]

I mean, this is literally how every playoff team goes. Tampa barely got past the Isles last season.

There is a reason they say you need a lot of luck.

I agree. The issue is that we don't do what good teams do - force our style of play on a game (like we did in 16/17). Opposing teams are figuring out how to shut down the Pens' best chances of success and the team isn't built for any sort of plan B. We don't have balance - we have one dish served 3.5 different ways. Big reason folks have always championed a big power forward... Game slows down, our guys get held with no chance at calls being made....and it's over. We pray for 2-1 games and Jarry playing out of his mind.

Sure, every now and then a crappy team will ignore that and play run and gun with us- but the last several years have proven otherwise. Tampa can play run and gun and also happily play a heavy brand of hockey. We don't have that luxury. Each and every time it's brought up people rage quit over the idea of getting any 'slower'.

It's likely too late - but it might be time to admit the 3/4 lines can't play this style of hockey...and arguably line 2 is teetering. I know the coaches have those geared to play a different style and put them in different scenarios....but the personnel on those lines don't really fit the bill. Line 4 often looked dominant but is a zero threat scoring. Whatever you want to call our line 3...they're not run and gun and not sustained zone time while getting pinched or hit heavily. Not sure what they are.

 

[JRS91]

Team gives up four goals, yet again.
'We really need secondary scoring'.
Wrong lesson.

They have 19 goals in their last 8 games. 15 of those goals have come from four guys.

Jarry can't carry you every game and neither can the defense. You win in the playoffs by having good depth.

 

[Andy99]

I agree. The issue is that we don't do what good teams do - force our style of play on a game (like we did in 16/17). Opposing teams are figuring out how to shut down the Pens' best chances of success and the team isn't built for any sort of plan B. We don't have balance - we have on dish served 3.5 different ways. Big reason folks have always championed a big power forward... Game slows down, our guys get held with no chance at calls being made....and it's over. We pray for 2-1 games and Jarry playing out of his mind.

Sure, every now and then a crappy team will ignore that and play run and gun with us- but the last several years have proven otherwise. Tampa can play run and gun and also happily play a heavy brand of hockey. We don't have that luxury. Each and every time it's brought up people rage quit over the idea of getting any 'slower'.

It's likely too late - but it might be time to admit the 3/4 lines can't play this style of hockey...and arguably line 2 is teetering. I know the coaches have those geared to play a different style and put them in different scenarios....but the personnel on those lines don't really fit the bill. Line 4 often looked dominant but is a zero threat scoring. Whatever you want to call our line 3...they're not run and gun and not sustained zone time while getting pinched or hit heavily. Not sure what they are.

I agree for the most part, and this is both an indictment of the coaching along with our personnel, even if you don’t see it that way…against both Carolina and Florida we are slow to establish our forecheck while they got to theirs first…again, that’s because we aren’t the fastest team anymore and are one of the oldest…Sully’s system is entirely based upon establishing the forecheck first…we will absolutely lose (unless our goalies stand on their heads) playing against faster teams…we can change our style to accommodate this and play a more passive NZ clog against those teams but Sully refuses to do this…no idea why…we will lose again in the POs and he will be a large reason why…we can’t change out most forwards lol

 

[The Old Master]

It's putting Teddy at 2C. Not ditching/dropping Malkin.

- Carter is too laterally slow for Geno's wing. Straight line speed is fine but Geno floats all over the place, and expects his linemates to bail him out when he flicks the puck away, runs out of space, or changes his position 3 times in a shift. Carter aint that guy.
- Geno's scoring chances at even strength are best created by floating around for open space....literally what a good winger does. He's playing C and acting like a wing once he enters the zone. His creativity isn't drawing guys to him and passing around as much as finding open ice and/or passing before the defense pulls to him. Heinen is wearing horse blinders (worst vision on the team outside of Petterson and McGinn) - and Carter looks lost on his wing. Nobody knows what he's trying to accomplish out there. Having Teddy drive the play and feed Malkin (while covering the defensive issues) is a better approach.
- Carter likes to mosey to center ice and chip the puck in. Geno likes to bully (friend and foe) folks off the puck. It's not unusual to have Geno crowd a board with one of our guys on the puck just to get the puck...then try a reverse pass when it doesn't work out. These two don't really mesh. Carter works better with Sid (similar role to Rust) than with Geno...or just on his own line.

Boyle is perfectly serviceable as a 4C. ESPECIALLY in a slower playoff series. His last several games have proven he can handle that with guys like ZAR and Simon. Preferably Simon gets sent to the moon. Carter and/or ERod are serviceable as 3C's. There's room for Geno to get out of the C spot if he/they were willing.

could work, but do you think we have a coach that would try it?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I hate stats like that, its really deceiving, thats like looking at save percentage, GAA, shooting percentage, etc. You really need to filter it into a minimum games played or amount taken or something like that to be viable. Taking 2-3 faceoffs a game is way different than taking 10-15 a game. Way to easy to manipulate the stats without a minimum amount of data. Its why I dont like comparing faceoff stats unless its comparing players who primarily play center or goalie stats unless they are starters.

Carter has been primarily center though? Played C a lot in his career as well.
That's who I'm talking about here, not ZAR

He's good in the dot. Malkin is not. If they're together on a line I think it's pretty clear who should be taking them...

 

[vodeni]

Crosby's actual goals have always exceeded his expected goals. More of a flaw in the metric than him getting lucky

my point was not that Sid is lucky, its that he plays with guys that can actually score, Geno on the other hand have soem chances created but they just can't score, you should even see the HDCF vs goals scored on High danger chances...the bottom line we could definitively use some skill on that line

 

[vodeni]

It’s so funny how our media acts like L1 and L4 are powerhouse lines and L2 and L3 are trash. Granted L1 was great tonight. But Jesus Christ L4 sucks ass. Move Blueger up to L3 with Carter and McGinn and Role the ZAR - Boyle - Simon line next game.

Scratch Kappy and go Heinen - Malkin - Rodrigues

I'd just flip ERod and Carter, ERod seems lost all the confidence and I don't see him getting it back with Geno...maybe playing with Teddy would be better

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree. The issue is that we don't do what good teams do - force our style of play on a game (like we did in 16/17). Opposing teams are figuring out how to shut down the Pens' best chances of success and the team isn't built for any sort of plan B. We don't have balance - we have one dish served 3.5 different ways. Big reason folks have always championed a big power forward... Game slows down, our guys get held with no chance at calls being made....and it's over. We pray for 2-1 games and Jarry playing out of his mind.

Sure, every now and then a crappy team will ignore that and play run and gun with us- but the last several years have proven otherwise. Tampa can play run and gun and also happily play a heavy brand of hockey. We don't have that luxury. Each and every time it's brought up people rage quit over the idea of getting any 'slower'.

It's likely too late - but it might be time to admit the 3/4 lines can't play this style of hockey...and arguably line 2 is teetering. I know the coaches have those geared to play a different style and put them in different scenarios....but the personnel on those lines don't really fit the bill. Line 4 often looked dominant but is a zero threat scoring. Whatever you want to call our line 3...they're not run and gun and not sustained zone time while getting pinched or hit heavily. Not sure what they are.

I mean, we’ve put on some clinics against the best teams in the East. The 3 games against Florida and 2 games against Carolina were incredibly close and largely lost because of stabbing ourselves in the foot. For example. Last night we played a fairly even game aside from the 1st period same thing happened against Carolina last week except reverse. Earlier in the season we did poorly in the last two minutes to blow a game against the Cats.

The roster is an issue, but the reality is our best players dictate and often they are simply playing bad two way hockey.

 

[jmelm]

I imagine Kapanen gets traded before the deadline. Don’t see us doing much else and honestly that’s probably the right move.

Moving out KK and replacing him with any DOC or even Big Z in no way could be anything but a huge improvement. If we get assets for KK, that’s a bonus.

 

[dingo71]

I was super excited for this game but had to catch it on replay. I managed to avoid all sports information for 3 hours but as I was waiting on the replay to drop on ESPN+ I mindlessly opened up the browser on my phone and immediately got hit with the final score

Looks like we played an okay game with again too many passengers. I like the idea of getting Boyle rest here and there but please for the love of god no more Simon. If we’re to make a run we’re going to need one or two young guys to step up, let’s give them a shot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's putting Teddy at 2C. Not ditching/dropping Malkin.

- Carter is too laterally slow for Geno's wing. Straight line speed is fine but Geno floats all over the place, and expects his linemates to bail him out when he flicks the puck away, runs out of space, or changes his position 3 times in a shift. Carter aint that guy.
- Geno's scoring chances at even strength are best created by floating around for open space....literally what a good winger does. He's playing C and acting like a wing once he enters the zone. His creativity isn't drawing guys to him and passing around as much as finding open ice and/or passing before the defense pulls to him. Heinen is wearing horse blinders (worst vision on the team outside of Petterson and McGinn) - and Carter looks lost on his wing. Nobody knows what he's trying to accomplish out there. Having Teddy drive the play and feed Malkin (while covering the defensive issues) is a better approach.
- Carter likes to mosey to center ice and chip the puck in. Geno likes to bully (friend and foe) folks off the puck. It's not unusual to have Geno crowd a board with one of our guys on the puck just to get the puck...then try a reverse pass when it doesn't work out. These two don't really mesh. Carter works better with Sid (similar role to Rust) than with Geno...or just on his own line.

Boyle is perfectly serviceable as a 4C. ESPECIALLY in a slower playoff series. His last several games have proven he can handle that with guys like ZAR and Simon. Preferably Simon gets sent to the moon. Carter and/or ERod are serviceable as 3C's. There's room for Geno to get out of the C spot if he/they were willing.

Malkin always works better when he can create from the middle of the ice.

Any configuration that takes him away from that makes the Pens a worse team.

 

[Turin]

Team gives up four goals, yet again.
'We really need secondary scoring'.
Wrong lesson.

It was the Panthers. They’re a juggernaut offense. The Pens need to be able to score with the best offenses. Also, if the forwards below GCR get more involved that’s defense.

 

[ColePens]

It's unfair to criticize TB and his line last night but they keep going back to the well of TB/ZAR and man oh man it looked BAD last night. That line looked awful in the playoffs w/ Tanev. I think we keep forcing TB somewhere where he may be awesome elsewhere. I just want that mandatory 4th line w/ ZAR role maybe adjusted.