GDT: Pens vs Blue Jackets

[Dipsy Doodle]

The bottom line is that you can criticize Neal's all-around play if you like, or his inability to score without scoring line centers. What you can't do is knock his production with Geno at any time of year, because it was always there.

Regular season, playoffs, whenever.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You obviously haven't watched all Pens games last year.
Stop only looking at the stats and watch the games instead.

I watched all but maybe 10. And highlights of those.

Malkin is lucky if he's the fourth best player on the roster, last year.

This poster nailed it on the head. Judging by your name, you're probably a Malkin fan more than a Penguins fan. From watching a lot of the games last year, Malkin wasn't our best player. Not even close.

I certainly wasn't happy with Crosby's play (only Letang and Fleury were great last year), but he was still better than Malkin. At 4th, you get into a Hornqvist vs Malkin debate for me personally. I'd sway either way, Hornqvist outplayed what I expected and Malkin underachieved, but I don't know if that meant Hornqvist>Malkin last year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not really a Neal apologist. Though I'm not quite the, uh... not-fan that you are, my friend. I gave him plenty of flak for his ******** behavior while he was here. But he and Malkin were a natural fit, despite whatever warts both have. Malkin doesn't seem to have any natural fits on this whole roster (that he's allowed to play with).

As simple as it seems... that's really the only point I am making. They are in trouble if they can't figure it out.

 

[billybudd]

He had 1 point in 4 games, including a goal in the final game before DB switched lines. That's hardly untenable considering how productive the duo had been. The lines were switched up to get Crosby going.



It doesn't matter in the slightest how his production was divvied up. Criticizing a guy for putting up multi-point games in the playoffs is nitpicking at its finest.

The insinuation is that Neal shredded an overmatched Sens team in a series of blowouts, but went to sleep against almost everyone else. Not that any of that matters.

At the end of the day, Neal's gone, 72's here and 81 would have stolen Nealer's spot on the powerplay, anyway, which was where he did half of his damage. It's probably a waste of time to litigate a year old trade that both franchises liked up until yesterday in a Pens v Jackets game day thread (not that you're the one who started this).

 

[Ugene Magic]

Easiest hint ever: Malkin asked to play with Crosby.

Hmm, wonder why.

Neal was also shun on the PP.

 

[plaidchuck]

The org just cant get it together. Every year the same thing, they want to.be a possession team. They want four scoring lines.

Talk is indeed cheap.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Neal was also shun on the PP.

With all that battle he showed in front of the net?

Poor Neal.

Instead of kisses, he gets kicks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It doesn't matter in the slightest how his production was divvied up. Criticizing a guy for putting up multi-point games in the playoffs is nitpicking at its finest.

Neal was held off the scoreboard in 13 of 22 games with Malkin (meaning he had all 17 points in 9 separate games, 8 of which came in 3 games against Ottawa). Scoring in bunches isn't a good thing, especially someone who is as useless as Neal is if he's not producing. Based on that, he was useless in 60% of games. That's unacceptable.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think you might want to rewatch all the Pens games where both were playing.
Sid was a bit better in the first 10-15 games but then, it was Geno who was along with Fleury consistently our best player and especially our most dominant one...until he got injured.
If he didn't score more points, it was only due to injury and because he was playing with 3rd liners for most of season.

No, its because Crosby played better hockey than Malkin did. I watched the games too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At the end of the day, Neal's gone, 72's here and 81 would have stolen Nealer's spot on the powerplay, anyway, which was where he did half of his damage. It's probably a waste of time to litigate a year old trade that both franchises liked up until yesterday in a Pens v Jackets game day thread (not that you're the one who started this).

Again... this has nothing to do with one game. And I don't want Neal back at this point. It just irks sometimes that the guy gets so utterly **** on, now. And frankly that wasn't really what I was driving at, anyway. I'm not pining for Neal... I'm tired of a dysfunctional second line and moron coaches.

 

[yuri28]

This poster nailed it on the head. Judging by your name, you're probably a Malkin fan more than a Penguins fan. From watching a lot of the games last year, Malkin wasn't our best player. Not even close.

I certainly wasn't happy with Crosby's play (only Letang and Fleury were great last year), but he was still better than Malkin. At 4th, you get into a Hornqvist vs Malkin debate for me personally. I'd sway either way, Hornqvist outplayed what I expected and Malkin underachieved, but I don't know if that meant Hornqvist>Malkin last year.

Well, just go to watch all the last season Post Game ratings in this board alone and then, come back at me.
Guess what? Geno was more often than not one of our best players (much much more than what stats would show-and yet he had i think the biggest point streak of any Penguin player last year-)....until he got injured.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I watched all but maybe 10. And highlights of those.

Malkin is lucky if he's the fourth best player on the roster, last year.

Yep, I'd say Malkin was closer to Hornqvist than Crosby.

 

[yuri28]

No, its because Crosby played better hockey than Malkin did.

Well argumented opinion.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again... this has nothing to do with one game. And I don't want Neal back at this point. It just irks sometimes that the guy gets so utterly **** on, now. And frankly that wasn't really what I was driving at, anyway. I'm not pining for Neal... I'm tired of a dysfunctional second line and moron coaches.

Hey now, I was the original A-1 founder of the "Hate James Neal" club starting back in Feb 2013.

Give me my just dues and you can have some of my ice cream.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well argumented opinion.

Crosby played better defense, he scored more, and he was better at possession. He was better at pretty much everything.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hey now, I was the original A-1 founder of the "Hate James Neal" club starting back in Feb 2013.

Give me my just dues and you can have some of my ice cream.

I KNOW where you get your ice cream.

And I want nothing to do with it.

Honestly I was more or less done with the guy after like... the third suspension. But right or wrong... that was Malkin's dude. And he hasn't gotten back to that level, yet. Probably never will.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

When did Neal play primarily with Sutter? I thought Neal played with Jokinen and Malkin in the 2013-14 playoffs. -edit- Ah, we loaded up with Sid and Geno on L1, Jokinen - Sutter - Neal on L2 in the Rangers series.

Neal played with Jokinen and Geno for the Columbus series. In the Rangers series, Neal's linemates were; Geno/Jokinen in games 1 and 2. Split time with Geno and Sutter in game 3. Went with Sutter in games 4, 5, 6, and was back with Geno and Jokinen for game 7.

So, if anything, he wasn't with "Sutter in 2014." It was Sutter for 3 and a half games of an entire post-season. And oddly enough, Sutter and Jokinen had 4 points over the 3.5 games that line was together. Nealer? One assist.

I don't know. You cannot tell me Neal lived up to par, let alone exceeded the expectations of a scoring line winger on this team while he was here. For the playoffs, that is. He just didn't.

He had one goal and no assists in six games through the Columbus series, and 1g, 2a, 3pts through 7 games of the Rangers series. Those are just two series, but they fit the bill for the majority of his time as a Penguin in the post season.

His totals (omitting the 7 games with Letestu in 2010-11 for sake of argument);

31GP (27.5 with Geno) - 10g, 10a, 20pts

The bulk of his 20pts came in a two-game explosion against Ottawa (5g, 4a, 9pts). Not discounting that production, but to point out that nearly half of his points came in two games. An anomaly in the data.

29GP (25.5 with Geno) - 5g, 6a, 11pts

How in the world is that acceptable production for a guy like Neal, alongside arguably the best player in the world at any given time, with top PP time?

And this is strictly arguing production. It's not touching on the fact that he was a lazy floater, prone to stupid, petulant penalties, and idiotic cheap-shots. The dude stunk it up in the post-season, and punched his own ticket out of town.

 

[yuri28]

Crosby played better defense, he scored more, and he was better at possession. He was really better at pretty much everything.

Playing almost 10 more games with more minutes and overall FAR better linemates ....thanks god he scored more!
And coming back about the linemates, i remember one serie of games (i think it was when he had his record point streak of any Pens player last season) when he was really in god mode but it wasn't much showed in the stats because of really crap linemates (or incompatibility with them).
Oh and your claiming about Sid being better at keeping the puck last season.....i'd like to know where it came from.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Speaking of Malkin, I was actually disappointed enough in his play last year that I don't consider him a unanimous top-5 player anymore. I really hope he gets back to that level, but he has taken some steps back in recent years due to injuries and losing Neal (who did help him somewhat, even though Neal just leeched off him).

Crosby also produced more than Malkin last year while being used as the shutdown center, so I don't even know why it's a debate right now. Crosby easily had a better season than him last year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Speaking of Malkin, I was actually disappointed enough in his play last year that I don't consider him a unanimous top-5 player anymore. I really hope he gets back to that level, but he has taken some steps back in recent years due to injuries and losing Neal (who did help him somewhat, even though Neal just leeched off him).

That isn't even a controversial opinion, anymore.

Or shouldn't be.

And I doubt he gets back there.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

tbh, I think some of the Neal criticism is too harsh and some of the defending is too kind. Great shot, great chemistry with Malkin and great at using his shot. Lazy, prone to doing ridiculously stupid things and a player you knew was better than he brought 95% of the time if he'd try harder. Him trying to make the Olympic team was damning, his play before and after the roster was announced was a kick in the face for this team.

I'm happy with Hornqvist, but still wish we'd gotten something like a 2nd in the trade. For the team Hornqvist-Kessel>Neal-Kessel and Hornqvist-Perron-Kessel>Neal-Perron-Kessel

Now get me Boedker for Kunitz, Bennett (gone anyway, may as well not Despres it) and a 2nd or whatever.

Crosby played better defense, he scored more, and he was better at possession. He was better at pretty much everything.

Not better and being Geno!!! Which is worth 1000b0 points. Duh.

 

[yuri28]

Speaking of Malkin, I was actually disappointed enough in his play last year that I don't consider him a unanimous top-5 player anymore. I really hope he gets back to that level, but he has taken some steps back in recent years due to injuries and losing Neal (who did help him somewhat, even though Neal just leeched off him).

Crosby also produced more than Malkin last year while being used as the shutdown center, so I don't even know why it's a debate right now. Crosby easily had a better season than him last year.

And while having Horny and Perron while Geno had.....Blake ****ing Comeau, Spalling or sometimes Kunitz/ Bennet/ Horny.
And Sid outscored him by 14 pts playing 8 games more so he actually barely outscored him in pt/game, which is not very impressive for a player of Sid's caliber, especially when you compare his TOI and his linemates to Malkin's last year.
And yes, both had a relatively poor year by their high standards and that was part of our problems.

 

[Ugene Magic]

With all that battle he showed in front of the net?

Poor Neal.

Instead of kisses, he gets kicks.

Point being, it was a lot deeper then what we know of.

It has a lot to do with the person then the stat line. It was a cruel year for Neal. From 2013 into 2014.

Missing tons of games (1st month of the season, concussion(march), Suspension and whatever else you can pile on.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I KNOW where you get your ice cream.

And I want nothing to do with it.

Honestly I was more or less done with the guy after like... the third suspension. But right or wrong... that was Malkin's dude. And he hasn't gotten back to that level, yet. Probably never will.

Whatever kid. More for me.

Point being, it was a lot deeper then what we know of.

It has a lot to do with the person then the stat line. It was a cruel year for Neal. From 2013 into 2014.

Missing tons of games (1st month of the season, concussion(march), Suspension and whatever else you can pile on.

Let's just say he brought all of that on himself, save the March concussion.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

tbh, I think some of the Neal criticism is too harsh and some of the defending is too kind. Great shot, great chemistry with Malkin and great at using his shot. Lazy, prone to doing ridiculously stupid things and a player you knew was better than he brought 95% of the time if he'd try harder. Him trying to make the Olympic team was damning, his play before and after the roster was announced was a kick in the face for this team.

I'm happy with Hornqvist, but still wish we'd gotten something like a 2nd in the trade. For the team Hornqvist-Kessel>Neal-Kessel and Hornqvist-Perron-Kessel>Neal-Perron-Kessel

Now get me Boedker for Kunitz, Bennett (gone anyway, may as well not Despres it) and a 2nd or whatever.




Not better and being Geno!!! Which is worth 1000b0 points. Duh.

I'd do that Boedker deal in a heartbeat. If for no other reason, to simply get rid of Kunitz and get more speed into the top six.

As for the Neal-Hornqvist trade, it was originally going to be Neal + 22nd overall (PIT) + 23rd overall (JR had a deal lined up with COL to get that pick, wishful thinking is that it involved Kunitz) for Hornqvist + Spaling + 11th overall. Nashville didn't want to mess with picks, so it was a players-only deal.