Post-Game Talk: Pens v Rags 11/11/14 eating chalk > Steigerwald

[Winger for Hire]

Because while Erhoff was awful, Bortuzzo was a complete dumpster fire

At least Bortz was able to stay on his skates. Everytime I saw Erhoff he was sprawled out on the ice like a baby giraffe trying to skate. I can recall at least 2 times he fell down while pinching and caused possession to be lost and a break the other way starting.

 

[wgknestrick]

Pretty close but Crosby took one little stride.


Result shouldn't be that much of a surprise when you have that kind of difference in intensity to start the game (according to Rosen and Micheletti prior to the game, Rangers were coming of their worst game of the season, it showed).
And then Lundqvist shut down any kind of hope of come back later on.
This was kind of watching Rangers in playoff mode vs Pens in regular season mode.
Same def pairing (any combination of Ehrhoff Martin Bortuzzo) continue to be exposed by the quickest teams, not having Määttä out there obviously didn't help.

At least we got to see some shuffling with the lines, I expect to see more and more of and from Bennett.
Didn't like to see Adams having that much ice time towards the end.. I mean if you really want to see Lundqvist get his shutout, then yeah, he is your man..

Next game against the NYR should be pretty interesting.

Almost forgot about Martin instead of Ehrhoff on the top PP unit to start the 2nd, good thing they had the intermission to think this over..

Sid keeps pissing me off more and more.

 

[yuri28]

Dupuis should never, ever be in the top six with Bennett available.

Craig Adams has a 302 consecutive iron man streak going. Just unbelievable.


Please no KCD line, just get Bennett with Malkin and keep Hornqvist with Crosby.


Call up Megna.


Fleury just embarrassed by Lundqvist again, not even in same realm.


WTF

I'm not necessarly for splitting the KCH line despite the fact they've not gone that well at ES but you have to noted that when Horny was played with Geno yesterday, it almost always looked like it was a PP so dominant they looked together.
I think the best solution would be to put Kunitz with Geno and keep Horny with Sid.

 

[wolffy66]

Sid keeps pissing me off more and more.

Yeah, that was embarrassing effort.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

He did struggle and even Despres made a few bad plays. However - isn't that sort of to be expected by those two and not so much of the highly paid defenders?

Bort was terrible, but I remember Orpik/Scuds having days like that before they really hit their stride. If it becomes the norm - then we start looking elsewhere.

Agreed. Well said.

Spaling and Goc are solid guys but they are more easily replaceable for me.

Well, yeah but that's an obvious statement. What can we acquire for Brandon Sutter, versus what can we acquire for Nick Spaling or Marcel Goc? Those are the questions to ask.

Are we worse off without Sutter, but with whomever we get for the top six in any Sutter trade? Or are we worse off now? It's open for debate, imo.

Right. B/c he shouldn't get any leeway either coming from a garbage team to one where it's learning a brand new system.

He's also playing 20+ minutes as a shutdown guy. Despres and Bort are not.

I think if there's one thing to take away from last night's debacle, it's that Simon Despres needs to start getting more ice time. He didn't play a single shift on special teams last night. That's completely wrong.

 

[Shwag33]

Bortuzzo looked brutal in the winnipeg game as well.... I dont get where people say he's looked good up until this game.

He had a goal against buffalo, but it was literally impossible to look bad in that game.




I'm not giving up on him, saying he should be traded, whatever; just calling it as I see it...

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well, yeah but that's an obvious statement. What can we acquire for Brandon Sutter, versus what can we acquire for Nick Spaling or Marcel Goc? Those are the questions to ask.

Are we worse off without Sutter, but with whomever we get for the top six in any Sutter trade? Or are we worse off now? It's open for debate, imo.

It certainly is a good debate. It's becoming more clear that Sutter is a bigger part of this team then most think. I'd really only think about moving him when Sundqvist is ready to take over. That could be as early as next year though so thats good if Sutter IS moved.

I say start trading the old core. Kunitz, Dupuis, Fleury(won't happen for awhile), Letang, Martin. Mix in 1 of Domoulin/Harrington and possibly 1 of BB/KK. I'm sure you can keep teams on the phone with that list.

 

[billybudd]

Pretty close but Crosby took one little stride.

Take back my "10% responsible" comment about Letang on this play. He closed a lot more ground than I thought. Crosby's in the right place IF Letang had been back, but he had a full view of the ice and could see that he needed to have been looking for trailers.

Malkin's still primarily responsible for losing a race to Derek Stepan, of all people, but Nash needed to be Sid's guy here.

It certainly is a good debate. It's becoming more clear that Sutter is a bigger part of this team then most think. I'd really only think about moving him when Sundqvist is ready to take over. That could be as early as next year though so thats good if Sutter IS moved.

I say start trading the old core. Kunitz, Dupuis, Fleury(won't happen for awhile), Letang, Martin. Mix in 1 of Domoulin/Harrington and possibly 1 of BB/KK. I'm sure you can keep teams on the phone with that list.

"Is becoming" would be a better way of putting that. Prior to the trade deadline last year, the guy presently wearing #16 never made an appearance for this team. It's big for us that he's taken a step (or five).

 

[madinsomniac]

For a 5-0 loss, I wasnt that outraged. The Pens typically are mediocre in November. The last time they had a good one was in 10-11, when they started the month 3-4, but finished on a 7-0 streak. Last year they were 7-6 in November, in 2012 they were 6-7. The second month of the season is when you are still trying a lot of new tactics and adjusting to how people are countering you from your play in the first month.

Yes, bad play last night from a lot of Pens, but until its reapeated with some consistancy, it can just be chalked up to an off night...

 

[Gurglesons]

Malkin's still primarily responsible for losing a race to Derek Stepan, of all people, but Nash needed to be Sid's guy here.

I love how people were all over my ass for not blaming Letang there, last night.

"Is becoming" would be a better way of putting that. Prior to the trade deadline last year, the guy presently wearing #16 never made an appearance for this team. It's big for us that he's taken a step (or five).

He also hadn't played with a legitimate top 9 on his line until last trade deadline. He is one of the few players on our team over 6'0, he isn't a huge physical player, but he has an offensive knack and if we could surround him with players with a little more physical edge and size I think our third line could be just as good as it was with Staal. Look how he players with a player like Downie flanking him, and Downie is a midget compared to most players in the league.

 

[RehnX]

Well. Beau looked good.

 

[billybudd]

He also hadn't played with a legitimate top 9 on his line until last trade deadline. He is one of the few players on our team over 6'0, he isn't a huge physical player, but he has an offensive knack and if we could surround him with players with a little more physical edge and size I think our third line could be just as good as it was with Staal. Look how he players with a player like Downie flanking him, and Downie is a midget compared to most players in the league.

That's not quite true. Cooke was, on balance, better than anybody he's playing with now and Kennedy not a great deal worse. His play didn't improve when he was with legitimate top 9 players, either; it improved when he was with Gibbons, currently only in Columbus' lineup because 6 forwards are hurt. The trade rumors were the kick in the ass he needed, seems to me, and his lack of leverage in contract negotiations the exclamation point.

I see a big difference in effort level with him. In years past he'd get pushed to a dead stop when he encountered any body in his way. Now he's fighting through that. He's not always winning the battle, but he's winning some and at least he's engaging, which wasn't the case in the past.

 

[Night Shift]

Bortuzzo looked brutal in the winnipeg game as well.... I dont get where people say he's looked good up until this game.

He had a goal against buffalo, but it was literally impossible to look bad in that game.




I'm not giving up on him, saying he should be traded, whatever; just calling it as I see it...

I said this in another thread.. Bortuzzo's primary game should be hitting, getting in guys faces, and solid defense. He's proven he can hit and can fight, I don't know if that type of dman has a place in MJ's system (I figure why wouldn't he want a guy like that?). I feel as though these are more his strengths than trying to make him into a great puck mover(whatever you want to term it).

If he's not going to hit, if he's not going to play a heavy game, if he's not playing solid defensively then he's not a fit here.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's not quite true. Cooke was, on balance, better than anybody he's playing with now and Kennedy not a great deal worse. His play didn't improve when he was with legitimate top 9 players, either; it improved when he was with Gibbons, currently only in Columbus' lineup because 6 forwards are hurt. The trade rumors were the kick in the ass he needed, seems to me, and his lack of leverage in contract negotiations the exclamation point.

I see a big difference in effort level with him. In years past he'd get pushed to a dead stop when he encountered any body in his way. Now he's fighting through that. He's not always winning the battle, but he's winning some and at least he's engaging, which wasn't the case in the past.

Kennedy is pretty much a healthy scratch a year removed. Terrible, terrible player who only had a career here because of his chemistry with Staal and Dan B's love of small speedy grinders. Glorified AHLers were always one of the two wings flanking him. Cooke, I guess you can defend, but in my mind he was a completely neutered player his last year here. Plus, he put up some of his worst numbers in a career that last year. Not to mention, that was his first year playing on a true contender. He was never on a Canes squad that was even close to making the playoffs. Those types of things impact players as much as we want to pretend they don't.

 

[billybudd]

Kennedy is pretty much a healthy scratch a year removed. Terrible, terrible player who only had a career here because of his chemistry with Staal and Dan B's love of small speedy grinders. Glorified AHLers were always one of the two wings flanking him. Cooke, I guess you can defend, but in my mind he was a completely neutered player his last year here. Plus, he put up some of his worst numbers in a career that last year. Not to mention, that was his first year playing on a true contender. He was never on a Canes squad that was even close to making the playoffs. Those types of things impact players as much as we want to pretend they don't.

Whatever it is, he's finally playing like his last name suggests he should play. Better late than never.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I say start trading the old core. Kunitz, Dupuis, Fleury(won't happen for awhile), Letang, Martin. Mix in 1 of Dumoulin/Harrington and possibly 1 of BB/KK. I'm sure you can keep teams on the phone with that list.

There is no way I move Harrington, Bennett or Kapanen before I move Sutter. No way.

Agreed that I'd try to move Kunitz, Dupuis, Fleury, Martin, Dumoulin and Ehrhoff (maybe Letang) before Sutter, though.

 

[UnrealMachine]

- Glass delivering one of his patented late to the party cheap shot hits to Despres.
- Despres not being able to summarily destroy Glass afterwards. It felt like Bylsma won.

 

[Shrimper]

Sid keeps pissing me off more and more.

It is irritating when he has off games. Sometimes you can tell in the first period. I actually looked and in games this season and last where we have lost Sid has 6 G 10 A -22 this is in 34 games.

I dare say some of it is due to line-mates but some is down to effort/application surely?

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

It is irritating when he has off games. Sometimes you can tell in the first period. I actually looked and in games this season and last where we have lost Sid has 6 G 10 A -22 this is in 34 games.

I dare say some of it is due to line-mates but some is down to effort/application surely?

I see people post stats like this a lot and they never mean much to me. As it turns out there is a big correlation between a team's best player having a bad night and the team losing. It's not very surprising. Sid has bad games but he is still the most consistent player in the league by far.

 

[specialized]

There is no way I move Harrington, Bennett or Kapanen before I move Sutter. No way.

Agreed that I'd try to move Kunitz, Dupuis, Fleury, Martin, Dumoulin and Ehrhoff (maybe Letang) before Sutter, though.

They lose 1 game and your ready to trade the team away?

 

[mpp9]

Pens were 3-16-1 last season when Sid didn't record a point.

 

[TheSniper26]

It is irritating when he has off games. Sometimes you can tell in the first period. I actually looked and in games this season and last where we have lost Sid has 6 G 10 A -22 this is in 34 games.

I dare say some of it is due to line-mates but some is down to effort/application surely?

To me those numbers are more an indictment of the rest of the team than they are of Crosby. Basically, when Crosby carries the load we are a winning team and when he has an off night we're not. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the supporting cast.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Pens were 3-16-1 last season when Sid didn't record a point.

Like I said, big correlation between a team's best player having a bad night and the team losing.

 

[mpp9]

Like I said, big correlation between a team's best player having a bad night and the team losing.

That's a pathetic stat for a team calling itself a contender. Last year really needed to be a transition year. Play young guys, move pending UFAs.

 

[Fordy]

They lose 1 game and your ready to trade the team away?

what? he listed 5/6 players he would trade before sutter. that list pretty much hasn't changed for anyone since before the season