Post-Game Talk: Pens v Rags 11/11/14 eating chalk > Steigerwald

[Shwag33]

Not enough minus's for Bortuzzo.


Brutal.... i'm not convinced he's a long term roster player. He's physical and we lack that, but so far he sucks. If anyone should sit for harrington it's him. I know he's just coming back, but he's really never been that great. Overrated by this board mainly cause he's young and hits people.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Not enough minus's for Bortuzzo.


Brutal.... i'm not convinced he's a long term roster player. He's physical and we lack that, but so far he sucks. If anyone should sit for harrington it's him. I know he's just coming back, but he's really never been that great. Overrated by this board mainly cause he's young and hits people.

We'll see. His max potential is a great bottom pair guy so I'm not too worried about it one way or the other.

 

[Shwag33]

We'll see. His max potential is a great bottom pair guy so I'm not too worried about it one way or the other.

I agree, but everyone has him penciled in our lineup forever; when he hasn't proven himself enough yet.

 

[ColePens]

Not enough minus's for Bortuzzo.


Brutal.... i'm not convinced he's a long term roster player. He's physical and we lack that, but so far he sucks. If anyone should sit for harrington it's him. I know he's just coming back, but he's really never been that great. Overrated by this board mainly cause he's young and hits people.

He did struggle and even Despres made a few bad plays. However - isn't that sort of to be expected by those two and not so much of the highly paid defenders?

Bort was terrible, but I remember Orpik/Scuds having days like that before they really hit their stride. If it becomes the norm - then we start looking elsewhere.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I agree, but everyone has him penciled in our lineup forever; when he hasn't proven himself enough yet.

I don't think many people have him pencilled in long term. I know I don't.

However, he has been playing well up until this game, so I'm not sure why anyone would really get on his case.

As much as I like Harrington, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have fared much better last night when most of the team was imploding.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe I just didn't pay a ton of attention to Bortuzzo last night, but I don't think he was any more awful than Ehrhoff.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

He did struggle and even Despres made a few bad plays. However - isn't that sort of to be expected by those two and not so much of the highly paid defenders?

Bort was terrible, but I remember Orpik/Scuds having days like that before they really hit their stride. If it becomes the norm - then we start looking elsewhere.

Good point, easy to take an outing or two and write guys off, which we used to jump all over that DB guy for.

This was a bad game. The team never committed to play the type game it would take to win. Some nights the tick tack toe passes won't be there, and i hope this game was one the team can learn from. How many guys passed up open one time shots to make a more ideal play only to have a rangers player slide in and block it?

Credit to the rangers for their effort and defense last night. we had no breathing room, and no control of the center of the the ice in any zone. We were chasing, and closed off to the walls.

Would have liked to see the team dump and hit more against a team who is jamming the ice real well. I don't believe it was a trap being employed for much of the game, but just excellent man marking. Get it deep, take a ranger out of the play, work the cycle.

Also thought our 4th line looked bad. IDK if it's adams goc or the combo, but they aren't skilled enough to play a 3rd line caliber shift. They aren't physical enough to serve another purpose. Sure the PK is important and has been good. But i just can't believe adams and goc are so vital to it that the wheels would come off without them. We have many smart responsible players we could lean on. I'de rather have a 4th line with an identity.

 

[SEALBound]

Bortuzzo was brutal last night yes, but so were a lot of dmen. Ernhoff was bad, Martin was meh, as was Despres. Letang had his moments but was unimpressive as well. Everyone flat out sucked last night. If they could have played in the 1st the way they did in the 3rd, it could have been different...course Lundqvist was absolutely phenomenal last night.

Bortuzzo makes a lot of sense to keep for a number of reasons. We sorely lack the big, bruising dman. He is essentially Orpik's replacement. Stick him on the 3rd pairing if you must, but I believe he will be a contract controllable asset to the defense moving forward.

Letang-Maatta
Despres-Pouliot
Bortuzzo-Harrington

Or whatever pairings you want, is a solid defense. That also leaves a couple of them out as trade bait, namely Martin, Ernhoff, Dumoulin, and Sammy.

Beyond that, I hated the fact that Duper was put back with Sid...but I understood the move. I just hope its VERY short term. Was also criminal that Bennett only got 4th line minutes with a look here and there on the 3rd line. He is too badly needed in the Top 6 at this moment. Maybe be a trade that changes, but moving forward, he needs to be put there. All in all, he played a decent game to boot. It was refreshing to see that kind of jump and skill on the 4th line. Assuming there is a trade, a bottom 6 of:

Duper-Sutter-Downie
Comeau-Goc-Spaling

Could be really good moving forward. We just need the other missing pieces. Wonder how a Bennett-Malkin-Hornqvist line would look...?

 

[mpp9]

I don't think many people have him pencilled in long term. I know I don't.

However, he has been playing well up until this game, so I'm not sure why anyone would really get on his case.

As much as I like Harrington, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have fared much better last night when most of the team was imploding.

Eh. I just have a problem with everyone ganging up on the vets and totally ignoring the mistakes the younger guys make.

Despres and Bort had a few brutal turnovers. But the post-game is full of, "Ehrhoff is terriblez".

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'm finding it hard to get overly worked up about this loss. These types things are what I expected to see in the early part of the season. We are trying to be a puck possession team that gives the players more options with the puck than blindly firing it up ice as quickly as possible. There will be natural growing pains when the opposing team pressures and forces us to make decisions faster than normal because the good habits that lead to quick decision making haven't been formed yet. The more they gel as a team in this system and inherently know where each other should be, the better they will be at handling what the Rangers threw at them yesterday.

 

[SEALBound]

Eh. I just have a problem with everyone ganging up on the vets and totally ignoring the mistakes the younger guys make.

Despres and Bort had a few brutal turnovers. But the post-game is full of, "Ehrhoff is terriblez".

Fair enough. However, if you don't agree that Ernhoff was equally as brutal, you missed the game. The expectations of a $4mil vet and a young dman is different. Despres and Bortuzzo can make a few mistakes here and there is it can be chocked up to growing pains. Ernhoff is at the stage of his career where such errors bear more scrutiny.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Sutter is really showing to be a not so easily replaced 3C.
He can handle the fast, big bodied playoff'esque games. Laid out some good hits last night. One of the better forwards for me in this one and in the playoff'esque game in Winnipeg.

Spaling and Goc are solid guys but they are more easily replaceable for me.

 

[mpp9]

Fair enough. However, if you don't agree that Ernhoff was equally as brutal, you missed the game. The expectations of a $4mil vet and a young dman is different. Despres and Bortuzzo can make a few mistakes here and there is it can be chocked up to growing pains. Ernhoff is at the stage of his career where such errors bear more scrutiny.

Right. B/c he shouldn't get any leeway either coming from a garbage team to one where it's learning a brand new system.

He's also playing 20+ minutes as a shutdown guy. Despres and Bort are not.

 

[mpp9]

Sutter is really showing to be a not so easily replaced 3C.
He can handle the fast, big bodied playoff'esque games. Laid out some good hits last night. One of the better forwards for me in this one and in the playoff'esque game in Winnipeg.

Spaling and Goc are solid guys but they are more easily replaceable for me.

Yep. He's a significantly better player than Goc. Kid is getting better and better.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'm finding it hard to get overly worked up about this loss. These types things are what I expected to see in the early part of the season. We are trying to be a puck possession team that gives the players more options with the puck than blindly firing it up ice as quickly as possible. There will be natural growing pains when the opposing team pressures and forces us to make decisions faster than normal because the good habits that lead to quick decision making haven't been formed yet. The more they gel as a team in this system and inherently know where each other should be, the better they will be at handling what the Rangers threw at them yesterday.

Well said. The C's weren't deep enough. There was zero option to come up the middle because of it. D were trying to outskate the forecheck which wasn't working either. Need quick safer decision making with that support.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Well said. The C's weren't deep enough. There was zero option to come up the middle because of it. D were trying to outskate the forecheck which wasn't working either. Need quick safer decision making with that support.

I just saw a comedy of bad decision making last night. People in the wrong places, defensemen passing to spots they thought teammates would be, etc. All that stuff was caused by the Rangers forcing them into quick decisions. Once they all know where to be and where everybody else will be in any given situation, they'll eat teams like the Rangers alive because they'll catch those teams with odd numbers going the other way. It just takes time.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Eh. I just have a problem with everyone ganging up on the vets and totally ignoring the mistakes the younger guys make.

Despres and Bort had a few brutal turnovers. But the post-game is full of, "Ehrhoff is terriblez".

I don't think Bort played that well and I have no problem bagging on him for last night. I think people just need to take things on a whole. He's played well up until last night, so it's kind of silly to act as if he has been an abortion out there.

I also think people are harder on vets because they are suppose to be the stabilizing forces in games like this. You expect inexperienced guys to make mistakes. When vets like Ehrhoff, Martin, Scuds and Letang make mistakes, it's more frustrating to see.

 

[chethejet]

bad game all around. But it is one game in a series after winning 7 in a row. Move on, every one was below the line.

 

[wolffy66]

The Rags were really all over the pens at the start of this one so its hard to blame MAF but I'm going to be a bit critical of him. He allowed 3 goals, on what, 4 or 5 shots at one point? He played decently but a few saves there and it may have been a different game. We didn't weather that storm and you have to do that sometimes, especially on the road.

That 1st period felt like a playoff game. In a bad sort of way.

 

[wgknestrick]

I don't think Bort played that well and I have no problem bagging on him for last night. I think people just need to take things on a whole. He's played well up until last night, so it's kind of silly to act as if he has been an abortion out there.

I also think people are harder on vets because they are suppose to be the stabilizing forces in games like this. You expect inexperienced guys to make mistakes. When vets like Ehrhoff, Martin, Scuds and Letang make mistakes, it's more frustrating to see.

Bort had just as many points as Sid did last night.

Which piece of **** smells the worst? Entire team stunk it up outside of maybe Sutter.

 

[Fordy]

no idea why bortuzzo is getting more **** than ehrhoff and ehrhoff is getting the buffalo excuse. doesn't bortuzzo get the bylsma excuse? dude's played 3 games in this system. ehrhoff has 14.

 

[Shady Machine]

no idea why bortuzzo is getting more **** than ehrhoff and ehrhoff is getting the buffalo excuse. doesn't bortuzzo get the bylsma excuse? dude's played 3 games in this system. ehrhoff has 14.

Fair point. Why don't we just say everyone sucked and let's put it behind us

 

[drpepper]

Couldn't watch the game last night, so I am just catching up.

All the defensemen looked like **** last night.

Johnston's breakout system as currently applied and executed looks horrible against fast teams that forecheck. Pens had the same problem with the Jets. The defensemen don't make a pass quick enough, the forwards aren't in support positions when and where they need to be, and either the forwards or the dmen turn the puck over.

I don't know if time will help this issue or if Johnston needs to re-think his breakouts when against such high pressure.

I don't know if Malkin and Hornqvist are going to work as well together as I had hoped. Hornqvist shoots too much, and the line would need a really good puck retriever.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

no idea why bortuzzo is getting more **** than ehrhoff and ehrhoff is getting the buffalo excuse. doesn't bortuzzo get the bylsma excuse? dude's played 3 games in this system. ehrhoff has 14.

Because while Erhoff was awful, Bortuzzo was a complete dumpster fire

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

Crosby was closer to Nash when they reached the blue line than Letang was. When Nash made his break, Letang hustled around Sid while Sid's feet never moved, and it was too late by then. Crosby's feet didn't move once in an effort to backcheck on Nash.

Pretty close but Crosby took one little stride.


Result shouldn't be that much of a surprise when you have that kind of difference in intensity to start the game (according to Rosen and Micheletti prior to the game, Rangers were coming of their worst game of the season, it showed).
And then Lundqvist shut down any kind of hope of come back later on.
This was kind of watching Rangers in playoff mode vs Pens in regular season mode.
Same def pairing (any combination of Ehrhoff Martin Bortuzzo) continue to be exposed by the quickest teams, not having Määttä out there obviously didn't help.

At least we got to see some shuffling with the lines, I expect to see more and more of and from Bennett.
Didn't like to see Adams having that much ice time towards the end.. I mean if you really want to see Lundqvist get his shutout, then yeah, he is your man..

Next game against the NYR should be pretty interesting.

Almost forgot about Martin instead of Ehrhoff on the top PP unit to start the 2nd, good thing they had the intermission to think this over..