Confirmed with Link: PENS/STARS TRADE: Brenden Morrow, 2013 3rd<--> Joe Morrow, 2013 5th + contract talk

[Dupree13]

I see a lot of people defending the trade. But if somebody posted Morrow for Morrow as a proposal yesterday morning, not one person here would have called it fair value and most people would have been indignant at the proposal.

It says something that when the initial reaction from everybody here when this deal was first reported was to think that it couldn't possibly be right.

We're all trying to talk ourselves into it now (some more succesfully than others). But unless 90+ % of the people on this board are clueless (which perhaps can't be ruled out) then Shero made a really terrible trade value-wise.

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

Also worth considering, who did Morrow play with in Dallas these days? I'm sure they don't compare to Malkin and Neal offensively. In fact, kinda interesting to note that Morrow's offensive numbers seem to have dropped off rapidly after Neal was traded to Pittsburgh. Perhaps the two played on a line together before the trade?

Assuming no on this, though I don't know for certain.

Neal was playing LW, same as Morrow, in Dallas. Only moved to RW after arriving in Pittsburgh.

 

[Darth Vitale]

This tells you, don't trust dallas fans opinions.

I can agree with this some, but we sort of rehabilitated Niskanen if we're being brutally honest. And Niskanen is young / has his whole career in front of him. Morrow has his whole career behind him... so yah... Dallas fans might not be that reliable a judge of talent on this one but they're not that much different from any other fan base including ours.

 

[Pens1566]

For the matter of this argument, niskanen and morrow are not totally different.

Dallas talked **** on both of them after and before the trade. Based on what dallas fans said Pens fans were expecting niskanen to be in the AHL.

This tells you, don't trust dallas fans opinions.

The respective points in their careers does make them totally different. Along with Niskanen being a throw in and Morrow being the main point of the deal.

Niskanen was/is still very early in his career and had legit upside. Morrow is very obviously on the downhill side of a career and is physically nowhere near what he once was.

 

[chethejet]

The problem is if this guy just doesn't have it anymore, when do you pull the plug and make a bad situation worse by trying to justify the trade.

 

[Richard]

We won't know if it was a fleecing until Joe Morrow has played at least a season in the NHL. Let's just get that out of the way, no matter how painful it was to trade him (I did not like the trade for the record, and was not on the "get BMorrow" bandwagon).

The fact that you've watched Brendan Morrow a lot gives you some credibility here but there are a number of possible scenarios that play out. The one I suspect Shero is hoping for is Brendan Morrow sees this as one last shot to get a Cup and leaves it all on the ice, doing whatever dirty jobs the team requires of him in the playoffs, maybe chipping in a few deflections on the PP, etc... and that Joe Morrow, while good, was redundant among our prospects on the whole. Obviously his shot was not redundant in any sense, including on the big team.

What really bugs me, especially now that the Iginla price is alleged to be "two prospects and a pick", is why didn't we use Morrow to trade for the much better old guy? The one would could conceivably have a couple years left and still produce at a good rate? He may yet do that, but the idea that Joe Morrow will not be used in that equation, bugs me some.

We'll see. I just want Morrow to make one of our lines tougher to play against in the playoffs and chip in a few clutch goals. 3, 4... whatever he can muster. Whetehr this goes down as Shero's worst trade will depend a lot on Joe Morrow and on how far we go this playoff.

Listen, I understand that after the first two picks in the draft, EVERYONE is battling less than .300. I understand that Joe Morrow is not a sure thing. Fine.

My problem is that this is a wasted asset. You use someone like Joe Morrow to obtain a player who will make an impact on your team.

You could have gotten a guy like Chimera or Torres or Reasoner for cheap and gotten you 4th line hustle and "veteran" leadership.

You use Morrow to get a Yandle or Iggy. Period. You don't trade him for a glorified checker.

Wasted asset. Terrible asset management. Morrow is no better than Kennedy or Cooke. Would you give up a blue chip asset for either of them?

I didn't think so....


Btw, Morrow is likely worse. Who trades their captain when still in playoff contention? ....

 

[Darth Vitale]

Chet: That will be 100% on the coach if it happens. If Bylsma sees him struggling out there game after game and leaves him in, and it costs us important games or worse a playoff series, he should and probably will be canned.

 

[Killswitch7187]

I see a lot of people defending the trade. But if somebody posted Morrow for Morrow as a proposal yesterday morning, not one person here would have called it fair value and most people would have been indignant at the proposal.

It says something that when the initial reaction from everybody here when this deal was first reported was to think that it couldn't possibly be right.

We're all trying to talk ourselves into it now (some more succesfully than others). But unless 90+ % of the people on this board are clueless (which perhaps can't be ruled out) then Shero made a really terrible trade value-wise.

It is a bad trade, value wise. But as I've said before, that doesn't make it a bad trade. Dejan said it best in his article, that you make trades to win games, not to win the trade itself. (At least in regards to contending teams.)

However, I wouldn't put much stock into posters from HFBoards, even with the majority being rather knowledgeable. Fanbases fall in love with prospects, and I'm guilty of that as well. Someone's Joe Morrow, is my Pouliot (Which if he were to be traded, I'd admittedly be bummed out). However, it comes down to winning the cup, and people can't downplay that this trade improves our chances to win it all.

Dallas no question wins this deal in the long-run, but who's to say we can't win from it as well?

 

[Sypher04]

We won't know if it was a fleecing until Joe Morrow has played at least a season in the NHL. Let's just get that out of the way, no matter how painful it was to trade him (I did not like the trade for the record, and was not on the "get BMorrow" bandwagon).

The fact that you've watched Brendan Morrow a lot gives you some credibility here but there are a number of possible scenarios that play out. The one I suspect Shero is hoping for is Brendan Morrow sees this as one last shot to get a Cup and leaves it all on the ice, doing whatever dirty jobs the team requires of him in the playoffs, maybe chipping in a few deflections on the PP, etc... and that Joe Morrow, while good, was redundant among our prospects on the whole. Obviously his shot was not redundant in any sense, including on the big team.

What really bugs me, especially now that the Iginla price is alleged to be "two prospects and a pick", is why didn't we use Morrow to trade for the much better old guy? The one would could conceivably have a couple years left and still produce at a good rate? He may yet do that, but the idea that Joe Morrow will not be used in that equation, bugs me some.

We'll see. I just want Morrow to make one of our lines tougher to play against in the playoffs and chip in a few clutch goals. 3, 4... whatever he can muster. Whetehr this goes down as Shero's worst trade will depend a lot on Joe Morrow and on how far we go this playoff.

fwiw, I'm not convinced Morrow cannot have a few more good years in the tank. He serves a very specific role and I believe he may well thrive again with two great offensive players in Neal and Malkin. I really cannot see Bylsma putting him anywhere else.

Also, I don't believe, by any means, that we're out on Iginla. These solidifies Geno's line. Time to solidify Sid's. As much as I like Dupuis, a lot of that Sid's lines offense dies on his stick.

 

[Shwag33]

The respective points in their careers does make them totally different. Along with Niskanen being a throw in and Morrow being the main point of the deal.

Niskanen was/is still very early in his career and had legit upside. Morrow is very obviously on the downhill side of a career and is physically nowhere near what he once was.

Go back to the boards and read through the niskanen threads. He had no upside at the time... at least until we saw him play for about 2 weeks then were like hey this guy isnt half bad on our team.


Seriously, the arguments being used for niskanen now are legit, but back then just like this trade, the guy is a washed up bum.

 

[Darth Vitale]

My problem is that this is a wasted asset. You use someone like Joe Morrow to obtain a player who will make an impact on your team.

That pretty much exactly my point and I said it last night too. IF we're going to trade Morrow, we could've packaged him for a MUCH better player (IMO). Iggy, Oshie... whoever we go after.

You could have gotten a guy like Chimera or Torres or Reasoner for cheap and gotten you 4th line hustle and "veteran" leadership.

Don't disagree with this but I won't be shocked at all if Shero still gets a player of this type.

You use Morrow to get a Yandle or Iggy. Period. You don't trade him for a glorified checker.

No way would PHX trade Yandle for Morrow (a young sure thing for a young not-sure thing). Iggy I agree he could've been packaged in that type of deal and said as much in the lines you quoted.

Wasted asset. Terrible asset management. Morrow is no better than Kennedy or Cooke.

If that's true then I'll be the first to say it a week from now after we've watched some games and the first to say this is a real mistake on Shero's part. So far it feels like one but I'm willing to let thigns play out a bit first before saying anything unequivocally. Hopefully Shero doesn't compound the problem by not acquiring someone better.

 

[Shwag33]

The trade may not work out, but people should give it a few weeks before freaking out.


I woulda preferred iginla, but it tells me the asking price is waaay too high. Feaster is going to hang on to him and get nothing... talk about terrible GM.


If iginla goes for something similar i'd be upset.

 

[JQR]

I see a lot of people defending the trade. But if somebody posted Morrow for Morrow as a proposal yesterday morning, not one person here would have called it fair value and most people would have been indignant at the proposal.

It says something that when the initial reaction from everybody here when this deal was first reported was to think that it couldn't possibly be right.

We're all trying to talk ourselves into it now (some more succesfully than others). But unless 90+ % of the people on this board are clueless (which perhaps can't be ruled out) then Shero made a really terrible trade value-wise.

Depends on what your values are. What was Joe going to bring to the table in the playoffs this season? The answer is nothing. How many competent vet wingers are available on the market right now? The answer is very few. So RIGHT NOW, the value for the Pens makes this a legit trade, especially considering the number of other good defensive prospects at our disposal.

If Joe was THE ONLY prospect? Yeah, I could see that being a dumb move. The fact is, all these prospects are ultimately assets, and sometimes you have to move them to get what you need.

 

[Dupree13]

I do understand the "future vs now" point of view. But clearly there is something inherently fallacious in it.

Using that logic, any asset that's not in he NHL should be considered expendable for the sake of guys that will contribute to a Cup run right now. So even if you had to give up Pouliot and Maatta also in the deal, so be it for the sake of winning now. But obviously nobody would make that claim. So asset value and thoughts of the future are still very much in play and must be considered.

So trying to gloss over a bad value move under the blanket of "present vs future" is just lazy and doesn't work. You could still mount a defense of the trade but not that easily.

 

[Dying Alive]

We won't know if it was a fleecing until Joe Morrow has played at least a season in the NHL. Let's just get that out of the way, no matter how painful it was to trade him (I did not like the trade for the record, and was not on the "get BMorrow" bandwagon).

The fact that you've watched Brendan Morrow a lot gives you some credibility here but there are a number of possible scenarios that play out. The one I suspect Shero is hoping for is Brendan Morrow sees this as one last shot to get a Cup and leaves it all on the ice, doing whatever dirty jobs the team requires of him in the playoffs, maybe chipping in a few deflections on the PP, etc... and that Joe Morrow, while good, was redundant among our prospects on the whole. Obviously his shot was not redundant in any sense, including on the big team.

What really bugs me, especially now that the Iginla price is alleged to be "two prospects and a pick", is why didn't we use Morrow to trade for the much better old guy? The one would could conceivably have a couple years left and still produce at a good rate? He may yet do that, but the idea that Joe Morrow will not be used in that equation, bugs me some.

We'll see. I just want Morrow to make one of our lines tougher to play against in the playoffs and chip in a few clutch goals. 3, 4... whatever he can muster. Whetehr this goes down as Shero's worst trade will depend a lot on Joe Morrow and on how far we go this playoff.

This has had me wondering too, but we don't know what Calgary was asking for. It might have been Bennett and Pouliot or nothing, and Shero chose to look elsewhere. It's rumored they're looking for two prospects and a pick, perhaps they're being very specific about which prospects they want and seeing who bites.

 

[MrBurghundy]

We'll see how much he has left in the tank tomorrow night. It would be nice if Malkin could be back for that game too so we can get a look at that line.

 

[Lim Ran]

I think that Pens fans are legitimately bummed, and for good reason. Losing Joe Morrow blows. Pens fans were in love with him, plain and simple.

That's the only problem here. It's why Pens fans aren't welcoming Brendan with open arms.

But they should be. Alright, Joe's gone, trade is over, let's move on and live for right now. You know? Right now? With the two best players in the world on this team, and our 12 game win streak?

It's like when the Blue Jays traded for Dickey this summer. I was bummed about a lopsided trade and giving up our best prospects. But now is the time, and that's nothing to be bummed about.

I hope Pittsburgh fans welcome Brendan the way they would if we got him for future considerations and an autographed Malkin stick. This coming from a guy that was shocked by this trade. Shocked. Brendan will bleed black and gold. He'll sign here. He'll do absolutely everything within his power to help this team to a Cup. As much as I think the trade is lopsided value wise ultimately (because Joe Morrow is a fantastic prospect), when you watch those Philly games this year and last, you realize exactly why we need Brendan Morrow. Exactly why.

Now go get Iginla and make us mean and nasty as well as skilled, fast, and dominant.

Let's all relax and enjoy another cup run. I'm excited.

 

[Richard]

I may just be frustrated, I will freely admit. I didn't post from the game last night because I knew my frustrations would get me into trouble.

I will conclude by saying the trade bothered the heck out of me yesterday, and still does today.

I will be the first to post here in a week or two and eat crow if I am wrong. THE FIRST. I hope Morrow comes in and rocks the Penguins socks off.

Lets go pens

 

[Richard]

I dont think Feaster knows how to make a trade anyway. I feel that he will pull a Waddel with Iggy-IE, wait too long to pull the trigger and end up getting a not favorable return.

 

[JQR]

That pretty much exactly my point and I said it last night too. IF we're going to trade Morrow, we could've packaged him for a MUCH better player (IMO). Iggy, Oshie... whoever we go after.

You have no way of knowing that right now. The only way you will be able to legitimize that claim is when we see what Calgary ends up getting for Iginla.

 

[Dying Alive]

I have to say as well, HF is literally the only place I've seen a negative reaction to this trade for the Pens. Twitter, local media, national media, other Pens message boards...by and large it's been positive. Doesn't make one side or the other right or wrong, it's just an interesting observation.

 

[Shwag33]

It's because on HF prospects and picks are worth more than actual players.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Just because Dallas happens to find themselves in the 8-spot doesn't mean their management is delusional enough to think they can make any sort of noise in the playoffs.

 

[ColePens]

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