Confirmed with Link: Pens sign Murray to 3yr contract extension (3.75mil AAV)

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, Murray was pretty clearly better than Fleury last year under Sully.

He was clearly better at the peak moment when they were in not top form, bestests in the league. A time where they took blocking shots into overtime when it mattered most. He didn't have to go through the struggles of turnover at all switching from coaches, styles and major player shuffling at all, it was all neat and tied into a nice little ball before he even took the ice.

I think Murray's point of contention is severely being overstated and Fleury's are being not pushed under the rug, magically being erased into thin air.

The two time periods don't equal each other but it's being stated they equal each other.

Murray didn't have to play behind where he had the workload period.

When that starts happening and he starts showing signs of not being superman behind a cloaked defense are people going to call it out or are you all going to keep rolling with the nostalgia cup win?

I don't think Fleury deserves to be pushed aside for that, he certainly has to be pushed aside for cap reasons, but you all look bad using totally different scenario's under different constraints each had to endure.

It really is to the point of overrating, Murray. Even if it is slightly to moderate.

It's still overrating.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure, they weren't the same scenario. But Murray was in a scenario Fleury has been in plenty of times throughout his time here, and Murray performed better than Fleury typically has. Murray came in and played well through the playoffs against the best teams in the league. He wasn't some superhuman stealing us a Cup, but he was good. I don't see how that's overrating him.

if there wasn't an expansion draft coming, I'd be all for rolling with both through this year at least. But there is. Murray has shown enough for me to easily say he's the one to keep. He hasn't been given every possible test, but he passed the hardest one. The next big question I'd have is if he can do it with a full starters workload. To figure that out, we need to give him a full starters workload.

I like Fleury, but Murray is our future.

 

[td_ice]

Boy I hope we are not overrating Murray, cause he very well might be our starting goalie three years from now.

 

[KIRK]

Boy I hope we are not overrating Murray, cause he very well might be our starting goalie three years from now.

Murray will be a full time starting goalie next year, because the Pens won't be paying 9.5M for two goalies.

The real question is where Murray will be starting.

 

[td_ice]

Murray will be a full time starting goalie next year, because the Pens won't be paying 9.5M for two goalies.

The real question is where Murray will be starting.

That was actaully a sarcastic mention to a Steigy reference.

But I know you try to avoid our broadcast and listen to the road guys, I wish I could....haha.

 

[hagelin1381]

In the playoffs this team is talented enough to be able to roll a guy that won't necessarily have to steal a whole lot of games, but won't lose you games either. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Penguins' two longest playoff runs in the last 5 years have come while Fleury was on the bench (I'll give Flower a pass for 14-15)

 

[KIRK]

That was actaully a sarcastic mention to a Steigy reference.

But I know you try to avoid our broadcast and listen to the road guys, I wish I could....haha.

Oh ****, my bad. Steigy said that? Holy ****, what a clown.

You know, all seriousness, you hear that ****, Yohe with Madden referenced here, and I don't see why so many people are so confident it's 100% Fleury who will be traded.

That sentiment exists in the Pens organization, and as I keep saying, if they get an excuse this season (Murray steps back, Fleury backstops a deep run) to choose Fleury, then I don't know how a person can be confident they won't take it.

Best I can tell, Murray has Sully on his side . . . but Sully doesn't strike me as overly sentimental (unlike Fleury's allies) if Murray doesn't distinguish himself compared to Fleury again this season.

 

[JTG]

This team seems to play with more confidence in front of Matt Murray. Even watching Fleury this season, Jiggy always used the term "spaz" when talking about certain players. That's exactly what Fleury is. It's never easy.

 

[KIRK]

This team seems to play with more confidence in front of Matt Murray. Even watching Fleury this season, Jiggy always used the term "spaz" when talking about certain players. That's exactly what Fleury is. It's never easy.

Agree 100%.

That said, if Murray doesn't distinguish himself versus Fleury again this season, how confident are you that they move Fleury instead of Murray next summer?

I ask that question taking into account the 3-4 year organizational focus, the much larger potential return for Murray, and the potential that there may be limited cap savings choosing Murray (since you may have to eat some money on or otherwise buyout Fleury).

I get sick every time I ask this question, but I don't see how any long term observer of this franchise can this it's 100% or even close that the Pens trade or buyout Fleury by the expansion draft.

 

[Jacob]

Steigy said that? Or something similar? Jesus.

 

[td_ice]

Oh ****, my bad. Steigy said that? Holy ****, what a clown.

You know, all seriousness, you hear that ****, Yohe with Madden referenced here, and I don't see why so many people are so confident it's 100% Fleury who will be traded.

That sentiment exists in the Pens organization, and as I keep saying, if they get an excuse this season (Murray steps back, Fleury backstops a deep run) to choose Fleury, then I don't know how a person can be confident they won't take it.

Best I can tell, Murray has Sully on his side . . . but Sully doesn't strike me as overly sentimental (unlike Fleury's allies) if Murray doesn't distinguish himself compared to Fleury again this season.

Thinking that was a legit post, I actually really appreciate the restraint you showed in replying to such an asinine statement, haha.

Yeah, that was actually something that Steigy uttered during the game.

I forget the exact context, but he did say, when talking about Murray, "he might actually be our starting goaltender three years from now."

Then Errey jumped in, imploring people not to read anything into the Murray signing. Quoting GMJR, and then dropping the "Fleury is the greatest human being ever" card into his not so subtly Fleury PR crusade. And all the Fleury-ites, listening, said, "praise be......praise be." Something like that, but you get the gist. But the church of Fleury is definitely a real thing here in Pittsburgh. This city is crazy about the dude.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

But the church of Fleury is definitely a real thing here in Pittsburgh. This city is crazy about the dude.

Seems like Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Ogrezilla]

that sounds about right

 

[Ugene Magic]

In the playoffs this team is talented enough to be able to roll a guy that won't necessarily have to steal a whole lot of games, but won't lose you games either. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Penguins' two longest playoff runs in the last 5 years have come while Fleury was on the bench (I'll give Flower a pass for 14-15)

Let's also remember the first one you speak of the entire team was still flaking, the Pens had the weakest team leading into that ECF in the Ottawa senators. Vokoun couldn't stop the rest from flaking in the conference finals.

So that run went further because of the next opponent was being pushovers.

Boston, they didn't even make it a series going down 4-0 scoring a whole 2 goals, and Vokoun gave up how many goals? Did they not pull Vokoun and Fleury came in game #2?

They were already done....cooked by that time.

They squeaked by the Islanders, smoked the crap Senators and completely came unglued vs Boston.

Going further didn't actually mean they were better, or that Fleury was the only problem.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Let's also remember the first one you speak of the entire team was still flaking, the Pens had the weakest team leading into that ECF in the Ottawa senators. Vokoun couldn't stop the rest from flaking in the conference finals.

So that run went further because of the next opponent was being pushovers.

Boston, they didn't even make it a series going down 4-0 scoring a whole 2 goals, and Vokoun gave up how many goals? Did they not pull Vokoun and Fleury came in game #2?

They were already done....cooked by that time.

They squeaked by the Islanders, smoked the crap Senators and completely came unglued vs Boston.

Going further didn't actually mean they were better, or that Fleury was the only problem.

But they did win as many series that year with Vokoun as Fleury did in the 6 years from 2010-15, as Fleury was well on his way to blowing that series vs. NYI

It's good that you admitted Fleury was a problem though.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

This team seems to play with more confidence in front of Matt Murray. Even watching Fleury this season, Jiggy always used the term "spaz" when talking about certain players. That's exactly what Fleury is. It's never easy.

Was the team confident because of the goalie or because they were in the middle/end of a runs where they were head and shoulders the best team in the league? MM was amazing last year but he's never has to play for the team that's just awful or decimated by injuries yet.

 

[Brandinho]

Oh ****, my bad. Steigy said that? Holy ****, what a clown.

You know, all seriousness, you hear that ****, Yohe with Madden referenced here, and I don't see why so many people are so confident it's 100% Fleury who will be traded.

That sentiment exists in the Pens organization, and as I keep saying, if they get an excuse this season (Murray steps back, Fleury backstops a deep run) to choose Fleury, then I don't know how a person can be confident they won't take it.

Best I can tell, Murray has Sully on his side . . . but Sully doesn't strike me as overly sentimental (unlike Fleury's allies) if Murray doesn't distinguish himself compared to Fleury again this season.

It's false confidence as a defense mechanism. Losing Murray instead of Fleury would be catastrophic, so they won't even allow themselves to entertain the possibility of it happening. Surely, the Pens wouldn't be that stupid. It's an obvious choice, right? The Titanic is unsinkable, clearly the Romans will prevail at Cannae, etc.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Boy I hope we are not overrating Murray, cause he very well might be our starting goalie three years from now.

I heard it. I rolled my eyes and shook my head. It didn't surprise me, though.

 

[Brandinho]

Was the team confident because of the goalie or because they were in the middle/end of a runs where they were head and shoulders the best team in the league? MM was amazing last year but he's never has to play for the team that's just awful or decimated by injuries yet.

Why are you pretending the two are mutually exclusive?

It's likely both, but my personal opinion is that it's more of the former than the latter.

Fleury's body language when he allows goals is appalling and his inability to control rebounds and cover the puck cannot possibly engender confidence in his defensemen, not to mention the positive statistical correlation related to said stoppages.

 

[JTG]

Agree 100%.

That said, if Murray doesn't distinguish himself versus Fleury again this season, how confident are you that they move Fleury instead of Murray next summer?

I ask that question taking into account the 3-4 year organizational focus, the much larger potential return for Murray, and the potential that there may be limited cap savings choosing Murray (since you may have to eat some money on or otherwise buyout Fleury).

I get sick every time I ask this question, but I don't see how any long term observer of this franchise can this it's 100% or even close that the Pens trade or buyout Fleury by the expansion draft.

I'm rolling with Murray regardless of how he does after coming back. I personally think he earned that right, I like the way he carries himself way better than Fleury. That is what counts most to me. He's a guy who I feel can shake himself out of a funk, he can self-correct himself, and he doesn't allow a game like last night get into his brain and ruin him. He's so rock solid mentally, and for a young guy, he has an insane amount of self-awareness and self-inflection. As can be seen with Fleury right now, the media has already put their kid gloves on and have been doing their damnedest to deflect blame.

The process of dealing with Fleury has gotten old for me. He can find himself in funks and he needs everyone to tell him how awesome he is so he can work himself out of it. He snowballs when things get bad, and I just much rather have a goalie like Murray who plays a quiet style of goaltending. Murray to me plays a Brodeur game - he is always focused, and he can see 10 shots a game and stop all of them. With Murray in net we have the ability to play a demoralizing game of hockey. We don't give up much and throw a highly focused goaltender in with that - it's very frustrating. The hardest part about being a goalie, especially on a good team, is that you aren't always involved in a game. When Fleury isn't involved in a game, he let's in goals. He needs to play behind a team that gives up a lot of shots.

Was the team confident because of the goalie or because they were in the middle/end of a runs where they were head and shoulders the best team in the league? MM was amazing last year but he's never has to play for the team that's just awful or decimated by injuries yet.

They weren't head and shoulders the best team. Washington or Tampa could have easily beat us. San Jose, we were a better team at that point, but we had already been through the wringer of the Eastern Conference.

I think Murray is a goaltender who will take the team on his back when he has to. Fleury has never once put this team on his back and willed them to victory when we really needed him to.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

LV thanks the Pens for signing Murray to such a reasonable contract for them.

 

[KIRK]

I'm rolling with Murray regardless of how he does after coming back. I personally think he earned that right, I like the way he carries himself way better than Fleury. That is what counts most to me. He's a guy who I feel can shake himself out of a funk, he can self-correct himself, and he doesn't allow a game like last night get into his brain and ruin him. He's so rock solid mentally, and for a young guy, he has an insane amount of self-awareness and self-inflection. As can be seen with Fleury right now, the media has already put their kid gloves on and have been doing their damnedest to deflect blame.

The process of dealing with Fleury has gotten old for me. He can find himself in funks and he needs everyone to tell him how awesome he is so he can work himself out of it. He snowballs when things get bad, and I just much rather have a goalie like Murray who plays a quiet style of goaltending. Murray to me plays a Brodeur game - he is always focused, and he can see 10 shots a game and stop all of them. With Murray in net we have the ability to play a demoralizing game of hockey. We don't give up much and throw a highly focused goaltender in with that - it's very frustrating. The hardest part about being a goalie, especially on a good team, is that you aren't always involved in a game. When Fleury isn't involved in a game, he let's in goals. He needs to play behind a team that gives up a lot of shots.



They weren't head and shoulders the best team. Washington or Tampa could have easily beat us. San Jose, we were a better team at that point, but we had already been through the wringer of the Eastern Conference.

I think Murray is a goaltender who will take the team on his back when he has to. Fleury has never once put this team on his back and willed them to victory when we really needed him to.

I agree 100%.

But, if Murray doesn't distinguish himself against Fleury this year like he did last year, do you trust them to do the right thing?

 

[td_ice]

It's funny, because all the things that Murray did in the playoffs, if Fleury had done them, Fleury would be getting praised for them. Such as the 6-0 after a loss. The two pressure packed wins, facing elimination vs. TB. Frustrating the Caps to the point that they specifically mentioned the goalie on "exit" interviews. Winning 15 games.

All those things would be exhibit A on how great Fleury is. But instead, Murray gets marginalized. Terms like, "insulated", "in spite of", "nothing Fleury wouldn't have done".

And of course IF Fleury HAD done all those things, would there even be a question of keeping him? It would be absurd to think of getting rid of him. He would be THE GUY. We would still be hoping to keep Murray, because he's good and he's young, but it would not be AS pressing. Because we wouldn't have seen him in the playoffs yet. So that part would still be a question. Fleury would have proved himself that he could deliver when it mattered most.

But that didn't happen. Murray carried the ball. And YET STILL, Fleury is the darling of the media/local fans.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

[mpp9]

Fleury was no less a passenger in 09 than Murray was last season. Difference was 87 and 71 didn't need to go God mode because we had better forward depth.

 

[KIRK]

It's funny, because all the things that Murray did in the playoffs, if Fleury had done them, Fleury would be getting praised for them. Such as the 6-0 after a loss. The two pressure packed wins, facing elimination vs. TB. Frustrating the Caps to the point that they specifically mentioned the goalie on "exit" interviews. Winning 15 games.

All those things would be exhibit A on how great Fleury is. But instead, Murray gets marginalized. Terms like, "insulated", "in spite of", "nothing Fleury wouldn't have done".

And of course IF Fleury HAD done all those things, would there even be a question of keeping him? It would be absurd to think of getting rid of him. He would be THE GUY. We would still be hoping to keep Murray, because he's good and he's young, but it would not be AS pressing. Because we wouldn't have seen him in the playoffs yet. So that part would still be a question. Fleury would have proved himself that he could deliver when it mattered most.

But that didn't happen. Murray carried the ball. And YET STILL, Fleury is the darling of the media/local fans.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I still think that lunacy extends to some parts of the Pens organization itself.