Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Turin]

I agree that Dubas values Bunting. Every GM has his guys. Rutherford did it, too (Matt Cullen, anyone?)

But I completely disagree with the premise of the rest of your post. We completely differ on the value Bunting brings and on your evaluation of the prospects. Worlds apart.

Bunting is exactly the kind of player the Pens have needed. They just need like, 2 more.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Bunting is exactly the kind of player the Pens have needed. They just need like, 2 more.

Bunting is exactly the kind of player the Pens needed like 4 seasons ago. I'm not sure what sense that move made now.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bunting is exactly the kind of player the Pens needed like 4 seasons ago. I'm not sure what sense that move made now.

Because they convinced themselves they are still competing.

I like the player so I won’t get too bent out of shape given the direction the organization has chosen. It’s the wrong direction, but it is what it is at this point.

 

[Pens x]

What a wasted season. Sully will be back for more fun. Honestly, with how poor of a job Dubas is doing, Reirden might even come back next season.

 

[SEALBound]

I think we need to stop making some weird excuse for the fact that Dubas has clearly said he valued Bunting and even without him saying that it's obvious he is one of his guys.

Let's just stop trying to pretend it was good trade. It hampered our cap ability this summer with a player who really doesn't add much. It added very little of value in terms of picks. And it gave us a couple of prospects that really have little upside at being anything beyond support players.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bunting is exactly the kind of player the Pens needed like 4 seasons ago. I'm not sure what sense that move made now.

The legend of Michael Bunting continues.

The reality is Michael Bunting is exactly the kind of player we've been acquiring for the past 5 seasons. Kapanen, Rakell, Reilly Smith, etc. 40-50 pt guy who is dependent on usage for his production, doesn't produce on his own, and is eating up precious cap space we could have used on acquiring an actual game changer.

If they move out one of Smith, Rust or Rakell, I can stomach the deal.

 

[vodeni]

The legend of Michael Bunting continues.

The reality is Michael Bunting is exactly the kind of player we've been acquiring for the past 5 seasons. Kapanen, Rakell, Reilly Smith, etc. 40-50 pt guy who is dependent on usage for his production, doesn't produce on his own, and is eating up precious cap space we could have used on acquiring an actual game changer.

If they move out one of Smith, Rust or Rakell, I can stomach the deal.

what we need and especially next year assuming that Sid and Geno will drop off from this year, is another true elite play driver...if there is one to aquire...its hard to find those kind of guys available for trade let alone UFA...so between Rust, rakell, Bunting and Smith you have 20 mil tied up...If you can get $11-$12 M guy, still have 8-9mil to work for other 3 spots, keep one of those guys and put two young guys up that can't be much worse production wise, but can skate and hussle...DOC Puusty similar...That would give you way better chance to win...but not sure who would be an elite player that we could get..you also get rid of all the dead weight on L4 that have you tied up $7M where you can save another 2-3mil there...really a simple vision here...if they can only see this clear path...

 

[Gurglesons]

what we need and especially next year assuming that Sid and Geno will drop off from this year, is another true elite play driver...if there is one to aquire...its hard to find those kind of guys available for trade let alone UFA...so between Rust, rakell, Bunting and Smith you have 20 mil tied up...If you can get $11-$12 M guy, still have 8-9mil to work for other 3 spots, keep one of those guys and put two young guys up that can't be much worse production wise, but can skate and hussle...DOC Puusty similar...That would give you way better chance to win...but not sure who would be an elite player that we could get..you also get rid of all the dead weight on L4 that have you tied up $7M where you can save another 2-3mil there...really a simple vision here...if they can only see this clear path...

Yes, this is exactly what we should have done as the plan.

This is why I criticize the Guentzel trade. Dubas acquired nothing that helps us acquire that talent. He acquired a bunch of mid prospects and a 2nd round pick and a former guy who played for him.

So now we have to move one of Rakell, Smith and hope we get something good back in return because we essentially have 13ish million cap to acquire a back up goalie, a 3C, and a 2nd pairing LHD.

If you move Guentzel for a similar trade return as Giroux in Tippett, 1st and a 3rd you have a roster player an assets to move this offseason for a potential game changer up front.

I would have much rather taken a 1st and a 3rd and packaged it with Pickering or Yager for a 30 year old player with term that could actually improve the team in the way we need versus adding yet another middle six guy who needs an elite center to drive play.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The legend of Michael Bunting continues.

The reality is Michael Bunting is exactly the kind of player we've been acquiring for the past 5 seasons. Kapanen, Rakell, Reilly Smith, etc. 40-50 pt guy who is dependent on usage for his production, doesn't produce on his own, and is eating up precious cap space we could have used on acquiring an actual game changer.

If they move out one of Smith, Rust or Rakell, I can stomach the deal.

I think that 5 seasons ago, that kind of player (with a little more grit) could be effective here, albeit if they weren't being coached by Sullivan. Now? It makes no sense besides that's the kind of player Sid and Sullivan want.

 

[Pancakes]

I would have much rather taken a 1st and a 3rd and packaged it with Pickering or Yager for a 30 year old player with term that could actually improve the team in the way we need versus adding yet another middle six guy who needs an elite center to drive play.

People hated on Hextall/Mario for wanting to do a "rebuild while contending" middleground but it feels like Dubas/FSG are trying to do the exact same thing.

On the one hand, you've got them keeping their pick and taking Yager and then trading Guentzel for a slew of prospects.

On the other you have the EK trade and all the vet signings.

And where did all of that leave the team? They're going to miss the playoffs this year and probably have to give their pick to SJ or at best pick in the 8-10 range. The prospect pool still sucks despite the recent infusions and nobody would be envious of what we have there. The actual roster isn't good enough and they refuse to even try to change the coaching staff.

To a certain degree they're handcuffed because Sid/Geno/Letang do not want to go anywhere and the team will probably not truly bottom out with them here. But imo they still could have picked a lane instead of this middleground shit. You can still try to rebuild and do a youth movement even with the stars here. Just surround them with as much youth and speed as you can.

Or if they wanted to double down on contending, they could have continued to move every last asset they had for win now players and probably at least gotten a playoff appearance in. Moving that Yager pick (or Yager himself) probably could have netted them an important asset.

But treading the middle is gonna get them exactly where they got this year....nowhere. And with still a really bad future ahead barring some miraculous draft luck that nets them Celebrini or something. And even if *that* happens, they have an unprotected first next year at that point lol.

Bad all around

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, you can basically just assume this organization's gonna make the worst possible choice whenever a decision is presented to them for about the past seven years or so.

I don't hate Bunting as a player. I hate Bunting as a guy they think has value to this team, at this current stage of the game. Like HSL said; he'd have been a really solid pickup years ago. Now? Who gives a shit?

I dunno. Team sucks, and with FSG at the helm, I don't feel like that's gonna change for a long time.

 

[Turin]

The legend of Michael Bunting continues.

The reality is Michael Bunting is exactly the kind of player we've been acquiring for the past 5 seasons. Kapanen, Rakell, Reilly Smith, etc. 40-50 pt guy who is dependent on usage for his production, doesn't produce on his own, and is eating up precious cap space we could have used on acquiring an actual game changer.

If they move out one of Smith, Rust or Rakell, I can stomach the deal.

Yea Bunting and Kapanen are basically identical.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea Bunting and Kapanen are basically identical.

Bunting and Kapanen are about as close as Patric Hornqvist and Bunting.

 

[SEALBound]

People hated on Hextall/Mario for wanting to do a "rebuild while contending" middleground but it feels like Dubas/FSG are trying to do the exact same thing.

On the one hand, you've got them keeping their pick and taking Yager and then trading Guentzel for a slew of prospects.

On the other you have the EK trade and all the vet signings.

And where did all of that leave the team? They're going to miss the playoffs this year and probably have to give their pick to SJ or at best pick in the 8-10 range. The prospect pool still sucks despite the recent infusions and nobody would be envious of what we have there. The actual roster isn't good enough and they refuse to even try to change the coaching staff.

To a certain degree they're handcuffed because Sid/Geno/Letang do not want to go anywhere and the team will probably not truly bottom out with them here. But imo they still could have picked a lane instead of this middleground shit. You can still try to rebuild and do a youth movement even with the stars here. Just surround them with as much youth and speed as you can.

Or if they wanted to double down on contending, they could have continued to move every last asset they had for win now players and probably at least gotten a playoff appearance in. Moving that Yager pick (or Yager himself) probably could have netted them an important asset.

But treading the middle is gonna get them exactly where they got this year....nowhere. And with still a really bad future ahead barring some miraculous draft luck that nets them Celebrini or something. And even if *that* happens, they have an unprotected first next year at that point lol.

Bad all around

Hindsight is always 20/20, but realistically speaking, everything done in the last five years has been nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The iceberg being Sullivan. They've been chasing "building the right team" for a coach and system that aren't winning formulas.

If they would have switched out coaches and systems, I think they could have found mixes that worked. But for the last three years (including this one), this is a stale team with a stale coach. All new players are merely fresh icing on a stale, crumbly cake that is starting to grow mold.

They COULD have competed. But they chose Mike Sullivan instead. Tough lessons to have live with if you ask me.

 

[Turin]

Bunting and Kapanen are about as close as Patric Hornqvist and Bunting.

Bunting is closer to a Dupuis than a Hornqvist but that’s still a far cry from Kapanen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bunting is closer to a Dupuis than a Hornqvist but that’s still a far cry from Kapanen.
View attachment 843145

*jfresh chart*

 

[SEALBound]

*jfresh chart*

Stats only matter when they support my agenda.

 

[Ulf5]

what we need and especially next year assuming that Sid and Geno will drop off from this year, is another true elite play driver...if there is one to aquire...its hard to find those kind of guys available for trade let alone UFA...so between Rust, rakell, Bunting and Smith you have 20 mil tied up...If you can get $11-$12 M guy, still have 8-9mil to work for other 3 spots, keep one of those guys and put two young guys up that can't be much worse production wise, but can skate and hussle...DOC Puusty similar...That would give you way better chance to win...but not sure who would be an elite player that we could get..you also get rid of all the dead weight on L4 that have you tied up $7M where you can save another 2-3mil there...really a simple vision here...if they can only see this clear path...

Dubas will have to get creative. Currently $12.7 million in cap space going into next season. Have to figure the rfas and backup tender take up most of, if not all of, the $2.7 million. So $10 million left. He has to find a taker for Smith without cap coming back.
Is there a better fit that Rakell can be swapped out for? Does Dubas have the cajones to move on from EK and save cap there?

 

[Gurglesons]

Stats only matter when they support my agenda.

*sealbound post adding value to this forum*

Dubas will have to get creative. Currently $12.7 million in cap space going into next season. Have to figure the rfas and backup tender take up most of, if not all of, the $2.7 million. So $10 million left. He has to find a taker for Smith without cap coming back.
Is there a better fit that Rakell can be swapped out for? Does Dubas have the cajones to move on from EK and save cap there?

Moving EK seriously f***s our defense.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I don't like any of this team's top-six wings. Maybe Rust. As individual players they're fine. But they're not good fits for what Crosby and Malkin need.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't like any of this team's top-six wings. Maybe Rust. As individual players they're fine. But they're not good fits for what Crosby and Malkin need.

Take the blue pill.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

So now we have to move one of Rakell, Smith and hope we get something good back in return because we essentially have 13ish million cap to acquire a back up goalie, a 3C, and a 2nd pairing LHD.

I don't want this team to acquire a bottom-six C. They already have Eller and Acciari under contract, when in reality one of them should be moved and the other C spot should be open for Poulin or Ponomarev. This is the exact scenario where you play youth and maximize their low cap hit.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't want this team to acquire a bottom-six C. They already have Eller and Acciari under contract, when in reality one of them should be moved and the other C spot should be open for Poulin or Ponomarev. This is the exact scenario where you play youth and maximize their low cap hit.

Well. They will be.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't like any of this team's top-six wings. Maybe Rust. As individual players they're fine. But they're not good fits for what Crosby and Malkin need.

You counting Smith or DOC? I think DOC is a better fit honestly. And Puustinen seems Guentzel-ish to me.

 

[Ulf5]

*sealbound post adding value to this forum*



Moving EK seriously f***s our defense.

Obviously a D would be part of the return.