Salary Cap: Pens Salary thread: It has been 0 days since our last injury

[jmelm]

I mean, he's not....and you know this. Come on now.

I'm just making a joke that both of these guys should be in the NHL

But I'll be glad if this means POJ can get 10-20 games so we can see what we have in this player and he can either seize the opportunity or fail to, and then we won't be sad if we waive/trade him.

I expect both DOC and Smith to be in the NHL before long.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Smith is a paper transaction.

They should just waive Ruh

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Disagree on waiving Ruhwedel. The NHL season and playoffs not only are a battle of putting the puck in the net, but also attrition.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Disagree on waiving Ruhwedel. The NHL season and playoffs not only are a battle of putting the puck in the net, but also attrition.

If they are going to waive anyone Friedman is the person. You could argue keeping him last year made some sense bc they didn't have anyone else who was a bit nasty. But the additions this offseason definitely made him redundant. This is a no brainer and I like Friedman as a depth guy.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What makes you think it's pretty clear the Hextall wants Petts gone? Have an inside source?

He's reportedly been trying to move him since he took over, or shortly after. And Sullivan doesn't seem super attached either with how Petts has been a healthy scratch several times in recent seasons. /shrug

 

[SEALBound]

He's reportedly been trying to move him since he took over, or shortly after. And Sullivan doesn't seem super attached either with how Petts has been a healthy scratch several times in recent seasons. /shrug

After moving Matheson and Marino, I do not think they will be moving Pettersson. We don't have a replacement. I mean, $4mil in space would be great and all but they still want to ice a competitive team. Dumo-Smith-POJ is maybe the weakest LD depth in the league if they move Pettersson.

This summer should have told everyone what their plans on defense was. Matheson and Marino were the guys moved.

 

[Deport Ogie]

He's reportedly been trying to move him since he took over, or shortly after. And Sullivan doesn't seem super attached either with how Petts has been a healthy scratch several times in recent seasons. /shrug

That was before the other D moves. I'd be very shocked if they are actively shopping him at this point.

Not sure if we are doing a BOLD PREDICTIONS thread for the year but one of mine is that Pettersson finds some stability and solid play on the 2nd pair with Petry.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

After moving Matheson and Marino, I do not think they will be moving Pettersson. We don't have a replacement. I mean, $4mil in space would be great and all but they still want to ice a competitive team. Dumo-Smith-POJ is maybe the weakest LD depth in the league if they move Pettersson.

This summer should have told everyone what their plans on defense was. Matheson and Marino were the guys moved.

Well if rumors are true, they really didn't WANT to move Math. But that was the price needed to get Petry, so...

I still say Petts is going to be struggling mightily again and he'll find himself in the press box.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I was reading some stuff the other day that basically said the notion that guys peak around 25-29 needs to shift down a few years. Today's NHLers seem to peak around 23-27 iirc. Also, I think the whole "blueliners take way longer to blossom" thing can be a cover-all for guys who probably just aren't any good or noteworthy.

-edit- At some point, dudes have to start making strides and notably improving. POJ's an asset from the miserable Kessel return (which was nobody's fault but Kessel's, much as I revile JR's work the last several years as GM). He's been here in the organization for a few years. He's not able to reliably beat out guys like Ruhwedel, Friedman, or a couple years ago Trotman. These aren't huge obstacles on the depth chart, these are nobodies with zero discernible qualities. The reason he can't comfortably eclipse them is because he's in the exact same tier of player, imo. What can you do but shrug?

The best “offensive minded” defenseman in the league is from the same draft as POJ and was an impact player at 20.

I looked into my claim further. Using:

Hockey Reference's ages of players relative to the season they played
a loosely defined "made it to the NHL" parameter
the defenders from the 8 good teams last season of COL, TB, NYR, EDM, STL, FLA, CAR, CGY
the defenders from the 4 poop teams last season of PHI, SEA, ARI, MTL

I ended up getting 95 NHL-defenders. And from that I wrote down their ages when they first became a full time NHLer.

Lowest age, clearly, was 18. Highest age was 27. Average was 22.2 and mode was 24. Sample Standard Deviation was 2.06.

I forget my stats class from like 15 years ago so I'm not 100% certain on this next sentence. But I think with my sample size I can say that with 95% confidence that NHL defenders make it between ages 18.1 and 26.3. And if I want to change that to 75%, then the ages change to 19.8 and 24.6.

Also, we can't say what ages this generation of players are peaking at since they're still playing.

 

[SEALBound]

Well if rumors are true, they really didn't WANT to move Math. But that was the price needed to get Petry, so...

I still say Petts is going to be struggling mightily again and he'll find himself in the press box.

Got a source for that rumor?

In any case, it doesn't matter - Matheson is the one that got moved. Pettersson is still here.

Pettersson sitting in the box is MUCH more based on the play of those behind him vs his own play. I can't imagine a scenario where we plays poorly enough to let POJ usurp him. At least as of now.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Got a source for that rumor?

In any case, it doesn't matter - Matheson is the one that got moved. Pettersson is still here.

Pettersson sitting in the box is MUCH more based on the play of those behind him vs his own play. I can't imagine a scenario where we plays poorly enough to let POJ usurp him. At least as of now.

It was posted on this board. Pens originally offered Blu and Marino or Petts.
I'll see if I can find it

 

[ChaosAgent]

By all accounts, Petts was the one they wanted to move ahead of Math and Marino but had negative value and Hextall didn't want to stomach it.

Having said that, he's here and clearly the best option for the team in the top 4. Not great, but fills the critical role well enough.

 

[Gurglesons]

Got a source for that rumor?

In any case, it doesn't matter - Matheson is the one that got moved. Pettersson is still here.

Pettersson sitting in the box is MUCH more based on the play of those behind him vs his own play. I can't imagine a scenario where we plays poorly enough to let POJ usurp him. At least as of now.

Believe Yohe posted it on the athletic.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Got a source for that rumor?

In any case, it doesn't matter - Matheson is the one that got moved. Pettersson is still here.

Pettersson sitting in the box is MUCH more based on the play of those behind him vs his own play. I can't imagine a scenario where we plays poorly enough to let POJ usurp him. At least as of now.

It was posted on this board. Pens originally offered Blu and Marino or Petts.
I'll see if I can find it

By all accounts, Petts was the one they wanted to move ahead of Math and Marino but had negative value and Hextall didn't want to stomach it.

Having said that, he's here and clearly the best option for the team in the top 4. Not great, but fills the critical role well enough.

Believe Yohe posted it on the athletic.

Yeah it was in the Athletic. First article said Pettersson and a bottom 6 forward. Then in an article after that one the writer clarified that it was Blueger.

 

[pistolpete11]

I would not doubt the Pens tried to trade Pettersson. He's a bland, redundant, and expensive defenseman on a team that had a bland, redundant, and expensive defense corps. Trading him at this point, though, would be reckless.

People get enamored with players like Smith every year during training camp. He looked great in the 1 game I saw and I've read nothing but good things, but we've seen this before. A guy looks great trying to make the roster and then shows his true level once the grind of the regular season sets in. I'm not saying he won't be good, but it's a risk that I'm not willing to take. Plus, I don't think he pairs well with Petry, so you're probably looking at POJ with Petry. At this point, the Pens would be lucky if POJ ever turned into a player approximating Petts let alone did it this year.

I actually think Petts and Petry will compliment each other pretty well, too. Obviously Petry is going to be doing the heavy lifting, but that's as it should be. No sense in paying him $6.25M to be on the second pairing if he needs a stud next to him.

I could see them continuing the revamp next offseason depending on how things go this season, but I think for better or worse, this is the defense that they will (hopefully) go into the playoffs with (barring major injuries of course). I for one, think it is a big improvement over last year even if it is still not ideal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would not doubt the Pens tried to trade Pettersson. He's a bland, redundant, and expensive defenseman on a team that had a bland, redundant, and expensive defense corps. Trading him at this point, though, would be reckless.

People get enamored with players like Smith every year during training camp. He looked great in the 1 game I saw and I've read nothing but good things, but we've seen this before. A guy looks great trying to make the roster and then shows his true level once the grind of the regular season sets in. I'm not saying he won't be good, but it's a risk that I'm not willing to take. Plus, I don't think he pairs well with Petry, so you're probably looking at POJ with Petry. At this point, the Pens would be lucky if POJ ever turned into a player approximating Petts let alone did it this year.

I actually think Petts and Petry will compliment each other pretty well, too. Obviously Petry is going to be doing the heavy lifting, but that's as it should be. No sense in paying him $6.25M to be on the second pairing if he needs a stud next to him.

I could see them continuing the revamp next offseason depending on how things go this season, but I think for better or worse, this is the defense that they will (hopefully) go into the playoffs with (barring major injuries of course). I for one, think it is a big improvement over last year even if it is still not ideal.

I agree with you on what you're saying about Smith and POJ here, but the big area of disagreement I have is that I don't think Pettersson is any safer or any better of an option for that role. He looked really, really bad in the pre-season. His game against Detroit was downright heinous.

In a perfect world, none of Smith, POJ or Pettersson are with Petry. Ideally, you could pull off another Rutta type of LD (someone like Soucy) and have him play with Petry. Petry has generally had the most success with physical defensive D according to Habs fans (so guys like Edmundson, Chiarot and such), so I think the perfect situation is that you get someone like that for Petry.

 

[Flying Dego]

Life is cruel out in the real world Big Z...

I agree with you on what you're saying about Smith and POJ here, but the big area of disagreement I have is that I don't think Pettersson is any safer or any better of an option for that role. He looked really, really bad in the pre-season. His game against Detroit was downright heinous.

In a perfect world, none of Smith, POJ or Pettersson are with Petry. Ideally, you could pull off another Rutta type of LD (someone like Soucy) and have him play with Petry. Petry has generally had the most success with physical defensive D according to Habs fans (so guys like Edmundson, Chiarot and such), so I think the perfect situation is that you get someone like that for Petry.

I honestly don't see much of a downgrade from Petts to POJ with Petry. And that's with me feeling nothing but Luke warm towards POJ

 

[PensandCaps]

I agree with you on what you're saying about Smith and POJ here, but the big area of disagreement I have is that I don't think Pettersson is any safer or any better of an option for that role. He looked really, really bad in the pre-season. His game against Detroit was downright heinous.

In a perfect world, none of Smith, POJ or Pettersson are with Petry. Ideally, you could pull off another Rutta type of LD (someone like Soucy) and have him play with Petry. Petry has generally had the most success with physical defensive D according to Habs fans (so guys like Edmundson, Chiarot and such), so I think the perfect situation is that you get someone like that for Petry.

Obviously Pettersson is better suited for that role than those two are. He's a proven NHL D and is good defensively most the time, just he is so inconsistent at times and plays die on his stick in the OZ.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think the Pens have recently tried to trade MP. I think they tried back when they were doing the Petry move. They wanted to get rid of him instead of MM, but Montreal wouldn't bite on that. So we're stuck with MP.

Pretty sure right now Hextall has tried (and failed, apparently) to move POJ. So now Smith is stuck in WBS until Hextall can either find a taker for POJ or maybe change his mind and try to move someone else off the roster.

A third option would be to try to sneak POJ through waivers after teams have decided on their opening day lineups. So Smith might spend a bit of time in WBS until Hextall feels like he can try sneaking POJ through waivers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Obviously Pettersson is better suited for that role than those two are. He's a proven NHL D and is good defensively most the time, just he is so inconsistent at times and plays die on his stick in the OZ.

He certainly didn't look good defensively when he was falling over himself in the Detroit game and leading to odd man breaks against.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's a rough spot, imo. You don't have a better option for Petry's partner than Petts. That's not to say Petts is a good partner, or a defensive stalwart at 2LD. That's saying Smith isn't the guy to insulate a lazy, dumb player like Petry, and POJ is... Uhhhh, not ready. We'll be diplomatic and say not ready instead of a nothingmancer a la Ruhwedel.

Like Emp says, ideally you have a guy like Rutta who is a natural LD. Pens don't have that, nor do they have the assets and cap space to snag that guy without moving Petts+, likely in multiple trades.

Smith-Rutta is a fine bottom pair. Gives Smith a break from bigger minutes/responsibility like he got in NJ, and which almost ruined him as a prospect. Rutta's a good partner for him in that he'll hopefully do the bulk of the defensive stuff. Bottom pairing is pretty whatever when it comes to importance too, imo.

Worried about that Petts-Petry pairing though. I have a feeling it's gonna be pretty universally disliked by mid-season, if Petts lasts that long.

 

[PensandCaps]

He certainly didn't look good defensively when he was falling over himself in the Detroit game and leading to odd man breaks against.

I really don't care about one random Preseason game.

POJ is nowhere close to Pettersson in terms of being ready for a top 4 role.

Eventually after some sheltered minutes i would like to see Smith-Petry if Smith shows he can hold his own defensively.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's a rough spot, imo. You don't have a better option for Petry's partner than Petts. That's not to say Petts is a good partner, or a defensive stalwart at 2LD. That's saying Smith isn't the guy to insulate a lazy, dumb player like Petry, and POJ is... Uhhhh, not ready. We'll be diplomatic and say not ready instead of a nothingmancer a la Ruhwedel.

Like Emp says, ideally you have a guy like Rutta who is a natural LD. Pens don't have that, nor do they have the assets and cap space to snag that guy without moving Petts+, likely in multiple trades.

Yeah I would even throw out that I think past version of Pettersson would be a good D partner for Petry. Pettersson's problem is that he's regressed significantly from where he was a few years back.

If you stuck 2019-2020 Pettersson with Petry, I wouldn't have many concerns whatsoever. But today's Pettersson looks like a shell compared to that Pettersson.

I really don't care about one random Preseason game.

POJ is nowhere close to Pettersson in terms of being ready for a top 4 role.

Eventually after some sheltered minutes i would like to see Smith-Petry if Smith shows he can hold his own defensively.

I'm not propping up POJ here, I'm saying I think Pettersson is superbly not good anymore.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah I would even throw out that I think past version of Pettersson would be a good D partner for Petry. Pettersson's problem is that he's regressed significantly from where he was a few years back.

If you stuck 2019-2020 Pettersson with Petry, I wouldn't have many concerns whatsoever. But today's Pettersson looks like a shell compared to that Pettersson.

Seems to be a running theme with young Penguins blueliners. Hell of a first season, followed by a whole lotta stumbling. I wonder why that is. Maybe too much of an increase in workload and/or matchups. Weird though.

 

[PensandCaps]

Yeah I would even throw out that I think past version of Pettersson would be a good D partner for Petry. Pettersson's problem is that he's regressed significantly from where he was a few years back.

If you stuck 2019-2020 Pettersson with Petry, I wouldn't have many concerns whatsoever. But today's Pettersson looks like a shell compared to that Pettersson.



I'm not propping up POJ here, I'm saying I think Pettersson is superbly not good anymore.

I mean yah, I'm not pumping Pettersson's tires either, just he's the best of bad options right now.