Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: New year, all our defence are injured and I feel fiiinnnneee... Panic?

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it has to do with this sheer hockey IQ. You don't make it this long on the league because you're dumb.

It's not an ideal situation for him. That being said, less responsibility and a more manageable role would probably do wonders for his game.

I've always been a fan of vets in the playoffs though. They have a better grass from when to open up their game and scenes perform better when it really matters. So far Carter has done that

I don't think he's dumb at all. I just think he's an aged player that wasn't a like Crosby or Malkin caliber guy even at his best and he's been asked to play too many minutes in too many situations that do not suit his game. This should have been obvious at the time they jumped the gun to sign him but I dunno... this team sometimes seems to come up with contrary narratives that suit them but not reality and then double down on them.

I like vets in the playoffs too but we've also seem them look like hammered shit. Like Marleau. Doesn't always work out. I just think some players have an extra gear for playoff hockey. And there is always some depth player that seems to step up big every long playoff run, too.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't disagree with most of that but I don't see why he HAS to be at center. I think playing kind of the old man role like Cullen did at fourth line but at RW instead would be perfectly acceptable and he can still find ways to contribute with his shot and sliding in on some faceoffs. Think like... Miro Satan on L4 for their 09 Cup run but with the added bonus of being able to take some RH draws.

Yes, but Satan was bounced from the top line. There actually has to be depth for that to happen. Now you are revamping the entire 3rd line. Back then you had the best 3rd line in hockey (Cooke, Staal, Kenney) where right now they don't have a set bottom six at all. It's a miss-mash of many players. Some look good, though, but not where I would say "That's good enough".

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

I’m hearing rumblings.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yes, but Satan was bounced from the top line. There actually has to be depth for that to happen. Now you are revamping the entire 3rd line. Back then you had the best 3rd line in hockey (Cooke, Staal, Kenney) where right now they don't have a set bottom six at all. It's a miss-mash of many players. Some look good, though, but not where I would say "That's good enough".

I don't think that team had great depth at all. Malkin was playing with Rusty and Talbot for heaven's sake. I think the team wanted to spread their attack and Disco did not trust Satan with too many minutes. Back then they'd also double shift Crosby and Malkin on L4 in order to create issues for the other team.

I think the Penguins center depth is fine enough to move Carter to L4 wing even as soon as today. Poehling and DOC have looked acceptable to me for L4 and they can make do until they get their man to backfill 3C at the deadline. Blueger blows this year but he's of course also in the mix at C.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’m hearing rumblings.

Want a Snickers bar?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm not really referring to rostered players.

Our first and some of our prospects have value. Hextall doesn't want to move those assets because the cupboard is pretty bare but there's enough there to piece together a deal or deals. Hallander is a good prospect. Pickering. Our first. Ty Smith. Sam Poulin.

I get it. Our prospect pool is one of the weakest in the league. It's funny to meme about. But even in the state it's in, there's enough there to make deals.

It just depends what Hextall is willing to pay.

I think Joseph still has the most value, by far. The problem is that Dumoulin sucks so we need to keep him around.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Again, this isn't a "backup goalie problem" with this team. It's a structural issue.
Bring in Brodeur and he's going to still face 20 HD chances against on average.

This team is so flawed in terms of a disconnect with system and personnel not matching. You have to fix one or the other. Sully is insistent on fixing NEITHER

It's both man. Casey was 26th in the league in GSAx/60 out of the 40 goalies who played 20+ games. That factors in poor defense.
We're not the only team that gives up this many good looks. We've had our share of good defensive games too.
He is just not doing enough this year. It's his worst season. Maybe he's turning it around right now and can salvage it to a degree, but that's TBD.

Besides, this is more than just for the sake of an upgrade on Casey. This is more about a fail-safe for Jarry, who has had 4 injuries since April.
Casey has had surgeries on both his groins. It's too risky to keep both goalies the same next year. We need a goalie that can handle multiple playoff rounds if Jarry can't go, or to steal the #1 job altogether if Jarry's hurt a lot next year. Casey cannot handle those things.

Goalies can also limit high danger chances to a degree with rebound control, puck handling, blocking with the paddle, or freezing the puck when necessary. Jarry gets us out of our zone easily all the time.

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

I’m hearing rumblings.

Just my stomach false alarm.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Lowest BMI?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's both man. Casey was 26th in the league in GSAx/60 out of the 40 goalies who played 20+ games. That factors in poor defense.
We're not the only team that gives up this many good looks. We've had our share of good defensive games too.
He is just not doing enough this year. It's his worst season. Maybe he's turning it around right now and can salvage it to a degree, but that's TBD.

Besides, this is more than just for the sake of an upgrade on Casey. This is more about a fail-safe for Jarry, who has had 4 injuries since April.
Casey has had surgeries on both his groins. It's too risky to keep both goalies the same next year. We need a goalie that can handle multiple playoff rounds if Jarry can't go, or to steal the #1 job altogether if Jarry's hurt a lot next year. Casey cannot handle those things.

Goalies can also limit high danger chances to a degree with rebound control, puck handling, blocking with the paddle, or freezing the puck when necessary. Jarry gets us out of our zone easily all the time.

Yeah. Ideally I'd like to see an upgrade to CDS, too. But to me the bolded is the big reason to go after another competent tender. Plus you could maybe use that as a bit of leverage to take his contract demands down a bit or at least not be UTTERLY screwed if he plays hardball and you gotta walk away.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't think that team had great depth at all. Malkin was playing with Rusty and Talbot for heaven's sake. I think the team wanted to spread their attack and Disco did not trust Satan with too many minutes. Back then they'd also double shift Crosby and Malkin on L4 in order to create issues for the other team.

I think the Penguins center depth is fine enough to move Carter to L4 wing. Poehling and DOC have looked acceptable to me for L4 and they can make do until they get their man to backfill 3C at the deadline.

Even Sykora was bounced to the 4th line and even scratched. The double shifting was more Crosby, and anything with Geno was a change in progress. Sid actually took shifts with the 4th line for faceoff purposes.

I have no issue with Poehling, O'Connor is hit or miss, and if anyone suggest TB as 3c I'll stop watching because, I know it's over. There better be a good 3c brought in, and a better winger than McGinn/Kapanen.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Lowest BMI?

He's near elite in Andrew Tate chin per 60, I bet.

 

[Jobeycool]

The problem with 2023 Pens is not enough decent or really good defensemen... Go Back and look at the Sid, Geno, Letang, Stanley Cup years.... Zero mediocre defensemen.. You cannot get far with these defensemen.. Dumoulin is past his prime and is all run out.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't think he's dumb at all. I just think he's an aged player that wasn't a like Crosby or Malkin caliber guy even at his best and he's been asked to play too many minutes in too many situations that do not suit his game. This should have been obvious at the time they jumped the gun to sign him but I dunno... this team sometimes seems to come up with contrary narratives that suit them but not reality and then double down on them.

I like vets in the playoffs too but we've also seem them look like hammered shit. Like Marleau. Doesn't always work out. I just think some players have an extra gear for playoff hockey. And there is always some depth player that seems to step up big every long playoff run, too.

To be fair there arent many Crosby/Malkins in the NHL ever.

Jeff Carter was still a very good hockey player. He's definitely not what he once was but in a limited role he can be useful.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even Sykora was bounced to the 4th line and even scratched. The double shifting was more Crosby, and anything with Geno was a change in progress. Sid actually took shifts with the 4th line for faceoff purposes.

I don't remember it that way at all but it's been a while. Pretty sure Malkin was definitely intentionally double shifted to L4. I think he even set up a goal or two there.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't remember it that way at all but it's been a while. Pretty sure Malkin was definitely intentionally double shifted to L4. I think he even set up a goal or two there.

There's nothing to suggest it didn't happen, but on the scale Crosby did it's not even close.

 

[SEALBound]

Friedman suggesting that Puljujarvi will be waived in the next few days. So yeah, let's not trade Kapanen for him.

I think the idea of that would be to get out of Kapanen's contract for next year. I think that pro makes up for the player-in-a-vacuum value.

I’m hearing rumblings.

Should I or should I not hold on to my butt?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also are McGinn and Kapanen REALLY bad third line players?

Don't think about their contracts for a moment. Think of them as just the player.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah. Ideally I'd like to see an upgrade to CDS, too. But to me the bolded is the big reason to go after another competent tender. Plus you could maybe use that as a bit of leverage to take his contract demands down a bit or at least not be UTTERLY screwed if he plays hardball and you gotta walk away.

Yeah, I believe in 1A/1B in the league at this point. I've seen way too many goalie injuries this year. Way too many series losses because of it.
That's a good point on the contract front. Could easily reduce the ask.

My view is that even if both goalies suffer with injuries next year, odds are one of them is available on a given night. The #3 goalie would maybe play like 5 games. 10 at most.
That means you have 70-75 games of a GOOD goalie in the net, and one almost guaranteed to be available for the playoffs. That is a huge swing factor in results. I would be more than happy to pay 10 mil to have the position secured all season.

For example the Avalanche have survived this year despite being 29th in even-strength scoring and having many critical, lengthy injuries. Why? Because both goalies have stabilized them. Both are over .917. That tandem bought them time to recover and now they'll probably make it in. Landeskog will probably be back by early March. Byram just returned. MacKinnon is back. Nichushkin is back.
I know they had a horrid game recently but I doubt they spiral too much from here. We saw how they play against us. Still a scary team. Casey just stole that one is all.

 

[SEALBound]

If the goal is to TRULY compete for the cup, Hextall needs to make the moves necessary to shift Carter to 4RW. If the TDL passes and Carter is on your lineup on the 3rd line in a capacity exceeding 10min, you may as well forfeit or pray for injury (as terrible as that is) because the playoffs will be bloodshed.

That said, if we get ROR and think they need to explore this:

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Zucker-Geno-XXXX
XXXX-ROR-Rust

Not sure ROR will have the impact we need if he's stuck with DOC and Archibald.

Jake-Sid-Rakel
Zucker-Geno-Heinen/Kapanen
McGinn-ROR-Rust
DOC-Poehling-Archibald

Also are McGinn and Kapanen REALLY bad third line players?

Don't think about their contracts for a moment. Think of them as just the player.

No, I think both have the capacity to be really good 3rd line players as long as they are not saddled with the corpse of Carter or the empty shell that is Bleuger.

McGinn has shown his scoring touch this year and Kapanen, I think, is still a very capable 3RW.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also are McGinn and Kapanen REALLY bad third line players?

Don't think about their contracts for a moment. Think of them as just the player.

Their contracts are average deals tbh.

Boston is paying that type of cash for Craig Smith and Nick Foligno.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Also are McGinn and Kapanen REALLY bad third line players?

Don't think about their contracts for a moment. Think of them as just the player.

Kapanen has been better as of late and McGinn has been serviceable to good all year.

There is absolutely zero problem with McGinn at least. Carter is the anchor.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kapanen has been better as of late and McGinn has been serviceable to good all year.

There is absolutely zero problem with McGinn at least. Carter is the anchor.

Agreed. I just can't see a way this is a lack of quality linemate problem for Carter.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Also are McGinn and Kapanen REALLY bad third line players?

Don't think about their contracts for a moment. Think of them as just the player.

When they are outliers and not 3rd wheels?

Yes.

Kapanen has been healthy scratched multiple times, and both have dried up into prunes. They can't replace the entire 3rd line, and if your best use of McGinn is the 4th line his cap is able to get better use by someone else.

Kap is the better player of the two.

I've sailed on all the 4th line expensive contracts. McGinn from the start, Blueger when they signed him just before the ED.

They just don't have time for projects and non fits.

They are not a good 3rd line with just a 3c with this... McGinn, __?__, Kapanen.

That's an almost empty 6.0 in cap space.

That's called being paper champions.

Hex alluded to this.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Kapanen has been better as of late and McGinn has been serviceable to good all year.

There is absolutely zero problem with McGinn at least. Carter is the anchor.

McGinn pointless in 17. I loved his hot stretch but that's over. Feel like DOC would bring more.

That being said, Carter is my 1st choice to be scratched, of course.