Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: New year, all our defence are injured and I feel fiiinnnneee... Panic?

[Zirakzigil]

I’m sure this won’t go over well here but with Ottawa offering a high pick to get rid of Zaitsev’s contract, I’d move Dumo out for a pick and take on Zaitsev. He sucks, but at least he hits people and can clear the net. Getting a couple extra picks in this draft would go a long way to restocking the cupboard.

That contract is a franchise killer.

Ceci also sucked until we found his perfect role and he's been used that way since. I don't wanna gamble on him though, atleast Dumo is UFA at seasons end, Zai still has another year.

4.5 million for 1 more year? That’s a bad contract but hardly a franchise killer.

I didn’t realize he only had one year left. Makes it make some sense, but he’s a RD so makes no sense.



Time flies. Thought he still has 3-4 years left.

Throw him on the left side. Who cares. Like I said, he’d just be here to hit people which is more than Dumo does. If Dumo can get a 3rd back and you get a 1st for taking Zaitsev, that’s a pretty big boon for trading crappy d-men and adding an extra year when we’re already set up to have a good cap situation next year.

Lol Zaitsev sucks ass.

Move Dumo sure whatever; but I like not adding players that suck ass.

How do you feel about reading for good players and then butchering their deployment?

I mean outside of what others have stated…

Timo has put up pretty close career stats to Jake, slightly younger, and without anyone remotely close to a Malkin, Crosby, etc around him to create space and benefit from.

Yeah I love Jake as well, on this team. But it’s just some convo for the sake of convo. I would never expect it. I also don’t really want to see Rust go either.

The biggest move they can make to fix this team would be to fire Sullivan. Not any single trade.

I think an easy move would be to acquire a cheap forward with some size and physicality in exchange for Heinen. Not a Reaves type but someone to fill in such as now with Archibald out. Heinen just doesn't much of anything in the bottom 6. Perhaps Sam Carrick from Anaheim?

Guentzel Crosby Rakell
Zucker Malkin Rust
McGinn Blueger Kapanen
Poehling Carter Carrick/Archibald
(Hallander first call up)

Indifferent.

I want to talk about the 4th line more. And DOC; let’s never stop talking about DOC.

First move should be to remove Dumo's ass out of the organization. Luckily he's on an expiring contract, doesn't make a ton, and GMs are stupid enough to fetishize his ~veteran Cup experience~ enough to look past the fact that he's LARPing as Scuderi nowadays.

What if one of those idiot GMs...is our GM?

Spoiler: He is.

I'm expecting Dumo to stick around as a bottom pairing "calming vet presence" at like $2.5-3 million AAV for another couple years. Can't wait.

I've already predicted this in a previous thread.

If Dumo's willing to take a pay cut from his current cap hit, I 100% can picture this organization re-signing him to a 3 year deal at the price tag you listed.

I wonder what teams are on Dumo's no trade list.

Once again, I don’t see Dumoulin being resigned. Does not fit at all with what Hextall has done here. There are no comparable spots to Dumo he’s resigned outside of Carter and that’s one of his guys. Dumo ain’t.

He let Marino/Matheson go to upgrade the D, chances are Dumo will also go to keep upgrading the D. Hopefully that upgrade is Chychrun, even though no rumors are linked to him and us but that's how Hextall rolls.

Now? Or when his new one kicks in with the team in July?

Yep. He also moved out Tanev, McCann, ZAR, Simon, etc.

He isn't as eager to trade as JR but he trades players out eventually.

People just want to use Carter and Kapanen as some type of excuses.

Carter continues to produce at a 3 million dollar rate and Kapanen has been our 7th best 5v5 forward as his contract pays him to be.

It’s kinda funny Letang is the worst contract Sullivan signed if we are going by this year and that’s the one everyone said was a steal and needed to be signed.

Click to read more...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I hate how we're talking about any move not in terms of what it'll bring to the team, but in terms of having to take bad players away from a coach who just can't seem to not overly rely on them. It's another depressing flashback to the Bylsma years.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I hate how we're talking about any move not in terms of what it'll bring to the team, but in terms of having to take bad players away from a coach who just can't seem to not overly rely on them. It's another depressing flashback to the Bylsma years.

Time is a flat circle, etc.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Time is a flat circle, etc.

It's wild that there are people on this board who think this is a completely Normal Thing despite the extensive documentary evidence of it being a Bad Thing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's wild that there are people on this board who think this is a completely Normal Thing despite the extensive documentary evidence of it being a Bad Thing.

I think it's both, tbh. Common symptom of NHLcoachitis, but it sucks nonetheless.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I hate how we're talking about any move not in terms of what it'll bring to the team, but in terms of having to take bad players away from a coach who just can't seem to not overly rely on them. It's another depressing flashback to the Bylsma years.

All coaches tend to develop habits of favoritism. That's why coaches have shelf lives and shouldn't be kept around for eternity, especially when those bad habits start creeping in and affecting the results.

Our organization probably looks at a cartoon of milk with an expiry date from last year and think, "nah, it's still good as long as you shake the cartoon first".

 

[HandshakeLine]

All coaches tend to develop habits of favoritism

I guess it's just wild to me that some people think this is a "good thing", seemingly. Or at the very least, not a problem.

 

[chethejet]

The instinct for denial is just getting old here. Sullivan truly believes his system can win cups. It never did. Hextall went with the status quo and in fact limited the roster with cap hell and washed up players who just were going down hill. The third issue is new management didn't grasp hockey as a sport and what it takes to be a cup contender. they wanted the status quo and fell for Sullivans BS.
The reality is this is a roster and organization that is faced with declining stars and no size or grit to plays todays game. If they have any Sullivan won't play them anyway. Boston was going to win the war of atrician due to they were superior in all aspects of hockey. It will level off when Letang and Petry are back and but just to many issues due to sully and his smurf mentality of wanting grinders who can't compete vs bigger stronger teams. Sully has to go but he won;t and management will just fail to get it.

 

[Josey Wales]

The instinct for denial is just getting old here. Sullivan truly believes his system can win cups. It never did. Hextall went with the status quo and in fact limited the roster with cap hell and washed up players who just were going down hill. The third issue is new management didn't grasp hockey as a sport and what it takes to be a cup contender. they wanted the status quo and fell for Sullivans BS.
The reality is this is a roster and organization that is faced with declining stars and no size or grit to plays todays game. If they have any Sullivan won't play them anyway. Boston was going to win the war of atrician due to they were superior in all aspects of hockey. It will level off when Letang and Petry are back and but just to many issues due to sully and his smurf mentality of wanting grinders who can't compete vs bigger stronger teams. Sully has to go but he won;t and management will just fail to get it.

UMMM Chuckles think FSG had something to say with what Hexy did ?? just teensy weensy bit. OH it is Attrition

All coaches tend to develop habits of favoritism. That's why coaches have shelf lives and shouldn't be kept around for eternity, especially when those bad habits start creeping in and affecting the results.

Our organization probably looks at a cartoon of milk with an expiry date from last year and think, "nah, it's still good as long as you shake the cartoon first".

But the Core is totally cool coach after coach they get fired right ?

 

[chethejet]

Hextall did sign Malkin, Letang and Rust which was expected. Rakell was to me a very good signing. Rutta is decent third pairing RD and I think Petry was added to help Letang and give the Pens a bigger stronger RD. But my issue was Carter who was extended with the over 35 contract for two years. Kap was problematic as to the number since who was bidding against Hextall for him.

Dumo was sliding last year and how you just think he would be back to top pairing form is laughable. Boston is better and no question the size, grit and depth is so much better than the Pens. Yet Sullivan just doesn't see it that way, Sullivan has 4 first round exits and yes a couple were due to injuries. But the facts are the snurf grinders just can't continue and Hextall came in wanting to upgrade the size and grit of the roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall did sign Malkin, Letang and Rust which was expected. Rakell was to me a very good signing. Rutta is decent third pairing RD and I think Petry was added to help Letang and give the Pens a bigger stronger RD. But my issue was Carter who was extended with the over 35 contract for two years. Kap was problematic as to the number since who was bidding against Hextall for him.

Dumo was sliding last year and how you just think he would be back to top pairing form is laughable. Boston is better and no question the size, grit and depth is so much better than the Pens. Yet Sullivan just doesn't see it that way, Sullivan has 4 first round exits and yes a couple were due to injuries. But the facts are the snurf grinders just can't continue and Hextall came in wanting to upgrade the size and grit of the roster.

I think it is really unfair to Hextall to frame the discussion this way.

Boston had a bunch of underperforming contracts that looked real bad. Debrusk, Foligno, Coyle, Carlo. Ask any Boston fan.

They get a new voice and they are able to turn it around.

Guarantee a good coach comes in here, scratches Dumo, drops a Guentzel or Rust to L3 and holds players accountable versus playing favorites.

Debrusk and Kapanen aren’t that different.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think it is really unfair to Hextall to frame the discussion this way.

Boston had a bunch of underperforming contracts that looked real bad. Debrusk, Foligno, Coyle, Carlo. Ask any Boston fan.

They get a new voice and they are able to turn it around.

I would suggest it's more than that for Boston. Coyle, Folingo and Carlo still aren't lighting it up.

But Krejci coming back deepened their lineup and he's an upgrade over Erik Haula even at age 36. A full year of Hampus Lindholm makes a huge difference. Zacha gives them a different look in the bottom six. And Linus Ullmark was solid last year but is playing like a Vezina candidate this year.

I also think it's more than reasonable to suggest that Hextall was misguided in bringing back a very similar bottom six while also criticizing Sullivan for not creating better balance in the lineup.

 

[Gurglesons]

I would suggest it's more than that for Boston. Coyle, Folingo and Carlo still aren't lighting it up.

But Krejci coming back deepened their lineup and he's an upgrade over Erik Haula even at age 36. A full year of Hampus Lindholm makes a huge difference. Zacha gives them a different look in the bottom six. And Linus Ullmark was solid last year but is playing like a Vezina candidate this year.

I also think it's more than reasonable to suggest that Hextall was misguided in bringing back a very similar bottom six while also criticizing Sullivan for not creating better balance in the lineup.

The first statement is straight up balls.

Zacha rocks, but he is not adding any different look. Ullmark has been good since last year.

Blaming Hextall is stupid. Last year in the playoffs Debrusk and Pasta in the regular season with Bergeron and Marchand were like 50 / 50 at most 5v5. This year its like 75 25.

Some coaches know how to win. Sullivan has proven for four straight years he doesn't. Keep sipping that kool aid brother.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The first statement is straight up balls.

Zacha rocks, but he is not adding any different look. Ullmark has been good since last year.

Blaming Hextall is stupid. Last year in the playoffs Debrusk and Pasta in the regular season with Bergeron and Marchand were like 50 / 50 at most 5v5. This year its like 75 25.

Some coaches know how to win. Sullivan has proven for four straight years he doesn't. Keep sipping that kool aid brother.

It amazes me that some folks will blame everything, from the GM for not building a better roster to guys like Sid, Geno, etc., for how the Pens look, but refuse to see that Sullivan's coaching and decisions are a big reason for a lot of the problems.

Hextall could literally overhaul 90% of the roster and we have the same result, and folks would still blame Hextall for not bringing in better players or for trading away awesome players and replacing them with crap rather than realize Sullivan isn't this Golden God they think he is.

I almost hope Hextall does get fired and the new guy bring in a bunch of new faces, only for the team to have the EXACT SAME ISSUES. I wonder who will get blamed then?

 

[Gurglesons]

It amazes me that some folks will blame everything, from the GM for not building a better roster to guys like Sid, Geno, etc., for how the Pens look, but refuse to see that Sullivan's coaching and decisions are a big reason for a lot of the problems.

Hextall could literally overhaul 90% of the roster and we have the same result, and folks would still blame Hextall for not bringing in better players or for trading away awesome players and replacing them with crap rather than realize Sullivan isn't this Golden God they think he is.

I almost hope Hextall does get fired and the new guy bring in a bunch of new faces, only for the team to have the EXACT SAME ISSUES. I wonder who will get blamed then?

How many offseason do we need this?

We dealt Kessel in 2017-18.

We blew up the bottom six and defense in 18-19.

We acquire Zucker in 19-20.

We blew up the bottom six in 20-21.

We once again blew up the defense in 21-22.

If we want to focus on Guentzel, Rust, Sid, Malkin, and Letang being the issues that's fine, but that is absolutely nonsense if you're going to see the same coach tbh.



This is the takes we get from even some of our younger media guys. Granted it's come out that Poehling was hurt.

But this same writer will say Blueger is quintessential to our defensive play and then blame Poehling for getting Sullied.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The first statement is straight up balls.

Zacha rocks, but he is not adding any different look. Ullmark has been good since last year.

Blaming Hextall is stupid. Last year in the playoffs Debrusk and Pasta in the regular season with Bergeron and Marchand were like 50 / 50 at most 5v5. This year its like 75 25.

Some coaches know how to win. Sullivan has proven for four straight years he doesn't. Keep sipping that kool aid brother.

Marchand-Bergeron-Pasternak were 64 CF%, 66.77 xGF and 63.38 HDCF% in regular season last year. They were similar in about 30 minutes together in the playoffs and again in about 77 minutes of play this year.

Swapping DeBrusk for Pasternak has yielded similar numbers. They haven't changed much at all.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Updated 5v5 P/P60. Kap's actually pretty close to his year 1 rate. Maybe he's earned some more ice time?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

How many offseason do we need this?

We dealt Kessel in 2017-18.

We blew up the bottom six and defense in 18-19.

We acquire Zucker in 19-20.

We blew up the bottom six in 20-21.

We once again blew up the defense in 21-22.

If we want to focus on Guentzel, Rust, Sid, Malkin, and Letang being the issues that's fine, but that is absolutely nonsense if you're going to see the same coach tbh.



This is the takes we get from even some of our younger media guys. Granted it's come out that Poehling was hurt.

But this same writer will say Blueger is quintessential to our defensive play and then blame Poehling for getting Sullied.

Hunter's a good kid but he has a lot to learn about this sport still. He's made that very clear in his podcasts.
He leans far too heavily on his preconceptions of players and doesn't adjust to reality, allowing emotions to sway him.

He's improving but it'll take time.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hunter's a good kid but he has a lot to learn about this sport still. He's made that very clear in his podcasts.
He leans far too heavily on his preconceptions of players and doesn't adjust to reality, allowing emotions to sway him.

He's improving but it'll take time.

He parrots a lot of his views from Twitter.

He’s fine. Enjoy listening to him on occasion especially when he’s got guests, but just foolishly blind to Sullivan.

Marchand-Bergeron-Pasternak were 64 CF%, 66.77 xGF and 63.38 HDCF% in regular season last year. They were similar in about 30 minutes together in the playoffs and again in about 77 minutes of play this year.

Swapping DeBrusk for Pasternak has yielded similar numbers. They haven't changed much at all.

Not sure what your point is here.

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen was the best line in the league and Colorado broke it up and won a cup.

Similarly, Montgomery has realized depth wins. Kinda funny because Sullivan did that same shit with Kessel.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

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Updated 5v5 P/P60. Kap's actually pretty close to his year 1 rate. Maybe he's earned some more ice time?

The fact Kapanen had our two most dangerous chances (and buried our only goal) and still only got 7 and a half minutes of ice time is beyond stupid.

Anyone saying coaching isn't an issue needs to explain the logic behind that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The fact Kapanen had our two most dangerous chances (and buried our only goal) and still only got 7 and a half minutes of ice time is beyond stupid.

Anyone saying coaching isn't an issue needs to explain the logic behind that.

There's precious few people who'll say coaching is not a big issue right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's precious few people who'll say coaching is not a big issue right now.

Eh. On HF Pens, but I think a good portion of the media still thinks he’s some light out top five guy.

Bet if you look at the HF overall I bet they think Sully is a great coach.

The fact Kapanen had our two most dangerous chances (and buried our only goal) and still only got 7 and a half minutes of ice time is beyond stupid.

Anyone saying coaching isn't an issue needs to explain the logic behind that.

It’s funny how some of us who don’t like Kapanen are defending him now because Sullivan’s usage of players is that f***ing moronic.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Eh. On HF, but I think a good portion of the media still thinks he’s some light out top five guy.

That's because he's always been respectful towards media, so he's earned their respect in return.
Now they can't get past their bias to assess him properly.

If he was confrontational then their articles would be very different.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Blues will be without O'Reilly and Tarasanko for at least a month.

Pretty sure they have extra cap space to take on contracts.

Not sure we have forwards they want, though.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There's precious few people who'll say coaching is not a big issue right now.

There's 4 who post semi-regularly who'd rather blame the stars or GM for the currently struggles and not the coach.

Then there's the mass of Pittsburgh reporters who act like Sullivan's the greatest coach in sporting history, not just hockey, and look to blame everyone else for the Pens' struggles and not their precious Sully.