Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: New year, all our defence are injured and I feel fiiinnnneee... Panic?

[AuroraBorealis]

There's 4 who post semi-regularly who'd rather blame the stars or GM for the currently struggles and not the coach.

Then there's the mass of Pittsburgh reporters who act like Sullivan's the greatest coach in sporting history, not just hockey, and look to blame everyone else for the Pens' struggles and not their precious Sully.

Yep, largely because of what I mentioned in post #23.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Blues will be without O'Reilly and Tarasanko for at least a month.

Pretty sure they have extra cap space to take on contracts.

Not sure we have forwards they want, though.

The players I'd want from them are either too expensive or ones that they wouldn't be willing to give up.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's because he's always been respectful towards media, so he's earned their respect in return.
Now they can't get past their bias to assess him properly.

If he was confrontational then their articles would be very different.

Not really. Media ate Torts shit for years and still acted like he could be a great piece for the Flyers this year.

Same with Babs. The articles aren't different because we have an unbelievable core that has carried his ass.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I was told it’s the execution not the system and that Sullivan is a genius.

Let’s face it, yinzers love a coach more than they love the team.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I was told it’s the execution not the system and that Sullivan is a genius.

Let’s face it, yinzers love a coach more than they love the team.

Good, blue collar workers never question the supervisor. They just wake up and go back to the coal mines.

 

[Night Shift]

Would anyone take another chance at JT Miller? His value seems to be dropping. Maybe something along the lines of sending Dumo, Kapenen and a pick.

I've been hearing he has attitude issues this year but my thought is maybe he didn't really want to sign there and is trying to force his way out.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

People still whining about coaching?

If you want to make a change for changes sake because, hockey. Sure, I get it. Acting like Sullivan isn't a good coach is silly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Would anyone take another chance at JT Miller? His value seems to be dropping. Maybe something along the lines of sending Dumo, Kapenen and a pick.

I've been hearing he has attitude issues this year but my thought is he didn't really want to sign there and maybe he's trying to force his way out.

If the value is plummeting, maybe. Kapanen is seemingly out with the team despite bouncing back, Dumoulin should be gotten rid of if at all possible. But woof, that 8 million dollar AAV starting next year is a hard pill to swallow. Having a guy who can do C/W would be nice, but again, the questions are: will we see him used in a way that benefits the team and is he a guy who is simply in a rut/a bad situation, or is he starting the decline?

People still whining about coaching?

If you want to make a change for changes sake because, hockey. Sure, I get it. Acting like Sullivan isn't a good coach is silly.

Lots of coaches are good coaches, including Sullivan. Lots of coaches also make bad decisions, while still being good coaches.

I'd just like to see what has he done that's been a smart move in the last season and a half? Something that gives me hope that he can correct this wobbly, sinking ship? I'm willing to change my mind, but nobody's been able to articulate what exactly makes Sullivan an indispensable part of this team going forward besides the stupid contract extension.

Again, I started the All Coaches Are Bylsma thing in jest, but now it's beginning to look like a prophecy and I hate it. I never wanted to be right!

 

[Night Shift]

If the value is plummeting, maybe. Kapanen is seemingly out with the team despite bouncing back, Dumoulin should be gotten rid of if at all possible. But woof, that 8 million dollar AAV starting next year is a hard pill to swallow. Having a guy who can do C/W would be nice, but again, the questions are: will we see him used in a way that benefits the team and is he a guy who is simply in a rut/a bad situation, or is he starting the decline?

If we can send Carter in that deal for another roster player Thad be good too. I'd have to look at their roster later to what would work for them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If we can send Carter in that deal for another roster player Thad be good too. I'd have to look at their roster later to what would work for them.

Carter has an NMC, so I don't think that will work, as much as it would make our lives much easier. I think if you could some how get retention on JT Millers' raise, you could make it a good deal. Miller - Malkin - Rust would be a pretty good 2nd line. But I don't know if you can retain on contract extensions that haven't kicked in yet.

The 8 million AAV isn't the worst deal breaker in the world, but even with Zucker, Dumoulin, and Blueger off the books, we still need to budget in Jarry's inevitable raise and the cost of getting another top pairing guy to help Letang.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If the value is plummeting, maybe. Kapanen is seemingly out with the team despite bouncing back, Dumoulin should be gotten rid of if at all possible. But woof, that 8 million dollar AAV starting next year is a hard pill to swallow. Having a guy who can do C/W would be nice, but again, the questions are: will we see him used in a way that benefits the team and is he a guy who is simply in a rut/a bad situation, or is he starting the decline?


Lots of coaches are good coaches, including Sullivan. Lots of coaches also make bad decisions, while still being good coaches.

I'd just like to see what has he done that's been a smart move in the last season and a half? Something that gives me hope that he can correct this wobbly, sinking ship? I'm willing to change my mind, but nobody's been able to articulate what exactly makes Sullivan an indispensable part of this team going forward besides the stupid contract extension.

Again, I started the All Coaches Are Bylsma thing in jest, but now it's beginning to look like a prophecy and I hate it. I never wanted to be right!

What are everyones expectations for this team/roster?

They are a solid team with a punchers chance because they still have a high ceiling when running hot.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What are everyones expectations for this team/roster?

They are a solid team with a punchers chance because they still have a high ceiling when running hot.

I dunno, reward players who are playing well, demote players who are playing bad seems like a pretty reasonable ask. That's what he was known for doing in the B2B, no clue why it's no longer a Thing.

Again, it's not that Sullivan is an Eddie O-level moron behind the bench, it's just that he's seemingly unable to get the best results out of this team at the moment. That suggests to me that, hockey being hockey and coaches being coaches, it's probably time to thank him for the service and see if a new voice can light the spark one more time. Besides, it's not like Sullivan's going to be a great development coach for a bottom feeder, which is probably where we'll be in 2-3 seasons anyway.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also, while we're discussing the coaching, to my eyes, Kap has bounced back pretty admirably after a stretch of bad play. I'm really not sure why he's in the dog house, dude's getting around 5 minutes of 5v5 ice time per game and producing, not being a liability. So, what should he be doing differently to earn a fraction more of Rust's 26 minutes?

Again, if the 4th line is not up to Sullivan's liking, we should move some players so that we can ice a 4th line that can soak up some ice time so that our aging players who are already slowing down a bit in the mid season can save their legs for the home stretch/post season. It's bizarre to me that we aren't doing this

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I dunno, reward players who are playing well, demote players who are playing bad seems like a pretty reasonable ask. That's what he was known for doing in the B2B, no clue why it's no longer a Thing.

Again, it's not that Sullivan is an Eddie O-level moron behind the bench, it's just that he's seemingly unable to get the best results out of this team at the moment. That suggests to me that, hockey being hockey and coaches being coaches, it's probably time to thank him for the service and see if a new voice can light the spark one more time. Besides, it's not like Sullivan's going to be a great development coach for a bottom feeder, which is probably where we'll be in 2-3 seasons anyway.

Kapanen has 2+ years earning exactly this role/ice time. But let fire the coach because hes been solid for a few weeks and isnt immediately getting vaulted up the lineup/ice time.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kapanen has 2+ years earning exactly this role/ice time. But let fire the coach because hes been solid for a few weeks and isnt immediately getting vaulted up the lineup/ice time.

Nah, you fire the coach because he hasn't won a playoff series in 5 years and we've only got a few more whacks at the apple. Kapanen is a symptom. Dumoulin riding the top pairing is a symptom. Carter being used in high pressure defensive situations is a symptom.

These are all correctable things, but we're not correcting them, and we're not winning. So, I don't get why you want to die on that hill, tbh. Like if we were playing out of our minds, then fair enough, Sullivan can run this team however he wants. But we're playing boring hockey, the top 6 looks like shit, and the blueline is atrocious. We can't replace all of that at once, but a new coach could maybe spark something and maybe squeeze a bit more blood out of this stone. I see it as a worthwhile gamble.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And again, I have little to no illusions about this team's ability to do anything in the postseason for the next decade or so, but still, I can't imagine looking at this on-ice product that we get the majority of the season and saying "yep, this is that Penguins hockey I love!".

I want that Cinderella ending more than anything, but I just don't see anything from the coaching over the past few seasons to give me reason to believe that Sullivan can inspire this squad for one last run. That's my perspective on it.

And like I said, if firing the coach or the ACs is non-negotiable, then for the love of god, get rid of the players that the coach clearly doesn't like and ice players who can work that system.

 

[Pens x]

Good, blue collar workers never question the supervisor. They just wake up and go back to the coal mines.

This.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

For poops and laughs, a roster for next season:

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
JVR - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Carter - Kapanen
Ritchie - Poehling - Sundqvist
DOC

Gavrikov - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Smith - Ruhwedel

Korpisalo - CDS

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Nah, you fire the coach because he hasn't won a playoff series in 5 years and we've only got a few more whacks at the apple. Kapanen is a symptom. Dumoulin riding the top pairing is a symptom. Carter being used in high pressure defensive situations is a symptom.

These are all correctable things, but we're not correcting them, and we're not winning. So, I don't get why you want to die on that hill, tbh. Like if we were playing out of our minds, then fair enough, Sullivan can run this team however he wants. But we're playing boring hockey, the top 6 looks like shit, and the blueline is atrocious. We can't replace all of that at once, but a new coach could maybe spark something and maybe squeeze a bit more blood out of this stone. I see it as a worthwhile gamble.

Your not winning because your team isnt very good not because Jeff Carter gets 2 extra minutes a game.

And now lets act like the playoffs are anything more than slightly above random and that coaching is the determining factor.

Rather than hot/cold goalies and which team gets a call or bounce or injury.

Anyone believe we lose that series with either Jarry or DeSmith healthy last year? But yeah coaching.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Let’s face it, yinzers love a coach more than they love the team.

Are you serious?
'Fire the coach, we didn't win the championship' is probably the biggest Yinzer cliche there is.

 

[HandshakeLine]

For poops and laughs, a roster for next season:

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
JVR - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Carter - Kapanen
Ritchie - Poehling - Sundqvist
DOC

Gavrikov - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Smith - Ruhwedel

Korpisalo - CDS

That's not as bad I thought it was going to be, nubs.

I still think it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep both POJ and Pettersson on the squad. I'd probably trade Pettersson and promote POJ since they're both capable 2nd pairing LD and POJ is cheaper and younger.

 

[Night Shift]

Good, blue collar workers never question the supervisor. They just wake up and go back to the coal mines.

This.

[Yt]

 

[HandshakeLine]

Your not winning because your team isnt very good not because Jeff Carter gets 2 extra minutes a game.

And now lets act like the playoffs are anything more than slightly above random and that coaching is the determining factor.

Rather than hot/cold goalies and which team gets a call or bounce or injury.

Anyone believe we lose that series with either Jarry or DeSmith healthy last year? But yeah coaching.

So, what about the year before? And the year before? And the year before? And the year before? It's like you're grasping for any straw here to lay the blame anywhere else, so show me these great coaching decisions Sullivan made with this very flawed roster. I'm more than willing to change my mind, but man, please give me something to work with.

At the end of the day, good coaching is like good goaltending or streaky bottom 6 wingers or whatever. It can help you put things over the top, it's not going to win it solely on its own. But we keep dropping winnable series for a variety of reasons. Goalie sucks? Tighten the ship and play team defense! Wings going cold and support scoring drying up? Time to make the special teams count. These are all things that the coach can address.

Lastly, if all of these factors are random and are outside the coach's control, why even bother paying for a coach? I don't get it. Is the best defense of the coach here is to claim that coaches have no effect on the game?

 

[Night Shift]

So, what about the year before? And the year before? And the year before? And the year before? It's like you're grasping for any straw here to lay the blame anywhere else, so show me these great coaching decisions Sullivan made with this very flawed roster. I'm more than willing to change my mind, but man, please give me something to work with.

At the end of the day, good coaching is like good goaltending or streaky bottom 6 wingers or whatever. It can help you put things over the top, it's not going to win it solely on its own. But we keep dropping winnable series for a variety of reasons. Goalie sucks? Tighten the ship and play team defense! Wings going cold and support scoring drying up? Time to make the special teams count. These are all things that the coach can address.

Lastly, if all of these factors are random and are outside the coach's control, why even bother paying for a coach? I don't get it. Is the best defense of the coach here is to claim that coaches have no effect on the game?

This guy dies on that Tomlin hill in the Steelers thread.

Just a heads up.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

So, what about the year before? And the year before? And the year before? And the year before? It's like you're grasping for any straw here to lay the blame anywhere else, so show me these great coaching decisions Sullivan made with this very flawed roster. I'm more than willing to change my mind, but man, please give me something to work with.

At the end of the day, good coaching is like good goaltending or streaky bottom 6 wingers or whatever. It can help you put things over the top, it's not going to win it solely on its own. But we keep dropping winnable series for a variety of reasons. Goalie sucks? Tighten the ship and play team defense! Wings going cold and support scoring drying up? Time to make the special teams count. These are all things that the coach can address.

Lastly, if all of these factors are random and are outside the coach's control, why even bother paying for a coach? I don't get it. Is the best defense of the coach here is to claim that coaches have no effect on the game?

The year before was Jarry shitting all over himself i believe?

The year before that? Was Murray shitting all over himself i believe in the COVID year no less.

19 was a real shit show

18 lose in the second round to the eventual champs after 2 championship runs.

Coaching is the most overrated/over inflated profession not only in sports but maybe in all American society.

What coaches do obviously matter but there is no secret skill that separate coach 1 from coach 15. Theyre all the same. As long as the coach aint tripping all over his dick (see Canada, Matt or Olczyk, Ed) they arent making the difference between winning and losing because everything else just matters sooooooo much more.