Salary Cap: Pens Salary and Signing thread: Dr StrangeDubas or How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Karlsson Watch

[Zirakzigil]

Previous thread was over 6100 posts and its no longer free agency day.

Dr StrangeDubas trying complete the EK trade:

​

I have no clue what mouth breather means, but I will say I'm none to pleased about the following:

- I swear we actually got older, not younger.
- We didn't make any changes. We just shuffled bottom 6 names around.
- We actually gave a f***ing raise to a goalie who didn't deserve it.
- Sully is still here (not really Dubas fault - that's on Hex)
- Our centers average age is 36.25
- Our defense is still basically the same defense.

Yuck...... and most here want to dump more futures for an aging Karlsson.

All hitting their real primes. We bout to go 82-0.

Is this team better than last season - yes.
Is that good enough to make the playoffs - not sure.

This is still a fringe playoff team unless Dubas adds another substantial forward.

I think you’re gonna have a rough go watching this team the next couple years lol.

They’re gonna go after what impact players they can afford to acquire regardless of their age and see what happens.

They could certainly use some youth, but in 16, that was a lightning in a bottle type moment with Sullivan having coached and trusted Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, etc. Unlikely we can replicate that.

Plus, as awesome as those kids were for us. We don’t do **** without PH and Kessel trades. We need those types of impact moves to even think about doing anything in the postseason from here on out.

Just slang for dummy. Categorized in the neanderthal insult...like knuckle dragger. It's not a perfect insult but it fits. Like - a sheeple...one of the heard...mouth open just a drooler zombie type.


I think most of us just want to watch an entertaining product at this point. Stapling ourselves to Sullivan and Jarry basically sealed the fate of this team - and since we're NOT (hopefully?) trading Sid/Geno it would be a hell of a lot more fun to see them post some numbers and highlights in the regular season versus watching this shit stain product Sullivan has created for another 82 games (I admittedly could only stomach 55 games last year and I'll take the under on that number this year).

So yeah - Karlsson and some fun wins/losses - or another 82 of just trying to play the right way and find our game while our old ass roster slugs along either winning - on the nights we play loose and ignore Sully - or losing again and again 3-1 when we can't score, can't find a power play point, and can't win 2-1 ourselves since we're literally not built that way - not even a single line.


I know what you mean. But then I look at their playoff game total - and I think that negates any sort of injury stretches they've sustained. I mean, Geno's game SHOULD age gracefully - especially if he shifts to wing later and just bombs that shot. Sid? Favorite player ever but are we expecting him to freaking out-muscle the opponent behind the net / half wall areas at 38 years old? If so I hope he's stacking those weights over the next few years versus trying to stay fast.




I've also started watching older games - just not THAT old. They're equally fun and depressing. It's insane to me to think this team finally put together 4 lines that could score in late 2015 - dominated - then proceeded to try and fit EVERY mold of hockey whilst having a coach that only knows ONE style. Like, if you're a hybrid team (Vegas) have a coach that can do it. If you're a fast midget team that wants to sprint for 60 minutes - ice that roster. Here we are years later listening to the same quotes from Sullivan - yet we went out and got slow ass players...again. Those that aren't slow can't find the net under a magnifying glass.

Click to read more...

 

[HandshakeLine]

If we want a more entertaining on-ice product, we don't need Karlsson. We just need to fire our boring ass coaching staff, incidentally.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Has Dubas considered trading all of his bad players to another team for all of their good players?

Fire Doober, he's ruining this team!!!!

 

[Nakawick]

So is Karl Ericsson a Pen yet?

 

[Empoleon8771]

So is Karl Ericsson a Pen yet?

 

[Sideline]

This team will be hot trash from 2026 until 2031. Yolo it all Dubas. I want every future hall of famer over 35 on the roster. Karlsson, Kane, hell get Spezza out of the front office and on the 4th line. More senior citizens!

 

[molon labe]

A Islanders team that went all the way to the ECF's taking the eventual champs to 7 games.

They went through the Pens, Bruins and lost to Tampa 0-1 in game 7.

The Islanders were a defensive team who took advantage of mistakes.

Those Islanders averaged / hovered around their regular season numbers. 54 goals scored in 19 games for a 2.8 GPG average.

They averaged 3.5 GPG against us. They played that defensive game with a solid goalie tandem (Varlomov 2.56 GAA .922 sv / Soro 2.79 GAA .922)

This type of discussion continues back to why Jarry is the answer. Jarry is a 2.7 GAA goalie in the regular season and 3+ GAA post season. He hasn't shown that he can be better than that - regular season or playoffs. He's never stolen a regular season game for the club - and obviously never stolen a game in the playoffs either. So if a below-league-average offensive team can statistically match up better against your goalie than he can perform to...what's that say about the top half?

It would be one thing if they swept us in a bunch of 2-0 or 2-1 games. But 4 times in that series the Islanders scored 4 or more (one game with 5). That's 4 of 6 games.

Basically - repeating myself that this team needs a 4 GPG average to win anything in the post season and 3.5 GPG regualr season (top half of the league - they were 3.19 last year and 17th overall) to theoretically move up in the standings by more than 1 place. Where are the extra goals coming from?

I mean, if all we're going for is the wild card then sure - MAYBE you look at Eller and Graves getting you there (I wouldn't) - but if you think for a second that this team is better than wild card or can win a playoff series I'd seriously like an ounce of evidence to support it. Because we're icing the same system and same goalie...with a MAYBE better defensive corps and zero improvements on the offensive side.

 

[Ugene Magic]

 

[Pancakes]

Has Dubas considered trading all of his bad players to another team for all of their good players?

Fire Doober, he's ruining this team!!!!

It is amazing how some have already run out of patience with Dubas before even a single game has been played.

I think even Hextall was given more patience than that lol.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Those Islanders averaged / hovered around their regular season numbers. 54 goals scored in 19 games for a 2.8 GPG average.

They averaged 3.5 GPG against us. They played that defensive game with a solid goalie tandem (Varlomov 2.56 GAA .922 sv / Soro 2.79 GAA .922)

This type of discussion continues back to why Jarry is the answer. Jarry is a 2.7 GAA goalie in the regular season and 3+ GAA post season. He hasn't shown that he can be better than that - regular season or playoffs. He's never stolen a regular season game for the club - and obviously never stolen a game in the playoffs either. So if a below-league-average offensive team can statistically match up better against your goalie than he can perform to...what's that say about the top half?

It would be one thing if they swept us in a bunch of 2-0 or 2-1 games. But 4 times in that series the Islanders scored 4 or more (one game with 5). That's 4 of 6 games.

Basically - repeating myself that this team needs a 4 GPG average to win anything in the post season and 3.5 GPG regualr season (top half of the league - they were 3.19 last year and 17th overall) to theoretically move up in the standings by more than 1 place. Where are the extra goals coming from?

I mean, if all we're going for is the wild card then sure - MAYBE you look at Eller and Graves getting you there (I wouldn't) - but if you think for a second that this team is better than wild card or can win a playoff series I'd seriously like an ounce of evidence to support it. Because we're icing the same system and same goalie...with a MAYBE better defensive corps and zero improvements on the offensive side.

But Varly was bad against us and why they went back to Sorokin.

 

[BusinessGoose]

If we want a more entertaining on-ice product, we don't need Karlsson. We just need to fire our boring ass coaching staff, incidentally.

Sure buuuuuut

Bring EK here at any cost

f*** this team and it's future

Until Sullivan is gone there is no future

 

[Jobeycool]

More chat about EK trade madness going on..

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Those Islanders averaged / hovered around their regular season numbers. 54 goals scored in 19 games for a 2.8 GPG average.

They averaged 3.5 GPG against us. They played that defensive game with a solid goalie tandem (Varlomov 2.56 GAA .922 sv / Soro 2.79 GAA .922)

This type of discussion continues back to why Jarry is the answer. Jarry is a 2.7 GAA goalie in the regular season and 3+ GAA post season. He hasn't shown that he can be better than that - regular season or playoffs. He's never stolen a regular season game for the club - and obviously never stolen a game in the playoffs either. So if a below-league-average offensive team can statistically match up better against your goalie than he can perform to...what's that say about the top half?

It would be one thing if they swept us in a bunch of 2-0 or 2-1 games. But 4 times in that series the Islanders scored 4 or more (one game with 5). That's 4 of 6 games.

Basically - repeating myself that this team needs a 4 GPG average to win anything in the post season and 3.5 GPG regualr season (top half of the league - they were 3.19 last year and 17th overall) to theoretically move up in the standings by more than 1 place. Where are the extra goals coming from?

I mean, if all we're going for is the wild card then sure - MAYBE you look at Eller and Graves getting you there (I wouldn't) - but if you think for a second that this team is better than wild card or can win a playoff series I'd seriously like an ounce of evidence to support it. Because we're icing the same system and same goalie...with a MAYBE better defensive corps and zero improvements on the offensive side.

Jarry's biggest issue is health. If he's healthy we are good but I understand that's a big if.

When he's unhealthy his numbers greatly declined. I think it's funny some hold the Rangers series against him. Guy basically was forced out there because a 50% Jarry was better than a healthy Domingue unfortunately. They did everything they could to keep Jarry from playing until game 7 where you could clearly tell he wasn't close to 100%

 

[molon labe]

Letang, Petry, Graves and Rutta have a combined 33 goals in 197 playoff games (23 are Letangs) for a .17 gpg average.

Petterson has zero goals in 25 playoff games.

So yeah, this continued crusade against the ineptitude of our offense I think is justified. Not addressing top 6 scoring is going to absolutely kick this teams' ass if we even do anything to merrit a playoff appearance.

And a big by the way here: Sid has 5 goals in 20 playoff games since 2018. Geno also 5 goals in 19 games since 2018. Sid averaged a goal every 3 games in 2017 and Geno every 2.5 games. This team is obviously closer to 2017 than 2016 in terms of construction....so having them now/recently score every 4 games is genuinely something to point out. And perhaps this fan base that watches them every night is justified stating over and over and over how they need help going forward.

Our hopes of them 'turning it up/turning back the clock' is - I wouldn't say futile but maybe lofty. Why they would suddenly crank it up at this stage is not really justified in anything.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It is amazing how some have already run out of patience with Dubas before even a single game has been played.

I think even Hextall was given more patience than that lol.

Have you seen what he has done so far?

 

[molon labe]

Jarry's biggest issue is health. If he's healthy we are good but I understand that's a big if.

When he's unhealthy his numbers greatly declined. I think it's funny some hold the Rangers series against him. Guy basically was forced out there because a 50% Jarry was better than a healthy Domingue unfortunately. They did everything they could to keep Jarry from playing until game 7 where you could clearly tell he wasn't close to 100%

His biggest issue isn't health in my opinion (granted it's a big issue with him) - it's that he's never really played like a starting goalie. He's played his whole career like a platoon guy we've waited to take the next step.

He's played 1 season at an NHL starter level and it destroyed him. Otherwise it's several seasons not even breaking 40 games.

But Varly was bad against us and why they went back to Sorokin.

I don't think that's relevant here, but yes. The point was about their offensive production...they were literally on the wrong side of league average offensively and lit the lamp against us. Why? And why would that suddenly be insignificant against every other team in the East that are BETTER offensively?

Literally the only team we match well against right now is the Rangers who average about 2-2.5 goals per game in the playoffs.

The Canes and Devils put up 3 goals per game in the playoffs. They're both poised to do BETTER going forward. In fact, only the Rangers, Bruins, and Lightning were sub 3GPG in the East last year. There were other teams trending upward that didn't make it (Buffalo). So yeah my point was that Jarry laid an egg against a team that was sub-par OFFENSIVELY. What is he going to do if we get matched against a good offensive team? What is the rest of the forward group going to do? Our offensive output by any logic whatsoever is decreasing next year.

 

[Ugene Magic]

His biggest issue isn't health in my opinion (granted it's a big issue with him) - it's that he's never really played like a starting goalie. He's played his whole career like a platoon guy we've waited to take the next step.

He's played 1 season at an NHL starter level and it destroyed him. Otherwise it's several seasons not even breaking 40 games.



I don't think that's relevant here, but yes. The point was about their offensive production...they were literally on the wrong side of league average offensively and lit the lamp against us. Why? And why would that suddenly be insignificant against every other team in the East that are BETTER offensively?

Literally the only team we match well against right now is the Rangers who average about 2-2.5 goals per game in the playoffs.

The Canes and Devils put up 3 goals per game in the playoffs. They're both poised to do BETTER going forward. In fact, only the Rangers, Bruins, and Lightning were sub 3GPG in the East last year. There were other teams trending upward that didn't make it (Buffalo). So yeah my point was that Jarry laid an egg against a team that was sub-par OFFENSIVELY. What is he going to do if we get matched against a good offensive team? What is the rest of the forward group going to do? Our offensive output by any logic whatsoever is decreasing next year.

I understand where you are coming from, but the Pens created their own demise. They are not fixing it, either. They are doing in Pens fashion of pedaling around the edges<--- get that perimeter joke?

They pushed and pushed with minimal affect and made mistakes a entry level criminal could cash in on.

I mean, they feel simple effort is the only key.

 

[Jobeycool]

Have you seen what he has done so far?

Throw him out the door before he has been a GM for at over 2 weeks lol...

 

[molon labe]

It is amazing how some have already run out of patience with Dubas before even a single game has been played.

I think even Hextall was given more patience than that lol.

Don't think it's without justification.

I mean - who looks at this team and says:
- More Jarry. 5 more years of Jarry!
- Man, that bottom 6 could really use a 34 year old Eller
- The problem with the top 6 last year was Zucker. Lets add a carbon copy with more playoff miles.
- They need more veteran leadership. All moves must be made with players over 30

He literally came in talking about Hornqvist and Kunitz - and has thus far made objectively ZERO changes to this lineup. It's quite literally just different names filling the same damned roles in the same way.

GCR
RMS
Dogshit
AHL + Carter

Letang - Graves
Petry - Petts
Mush

Jarry
Mush

Same head coach for a decade. Same assistants that can't spell power play.

How much time we supposed to give it? Like - what, of anything at all, has Dubas given us to get remotely excited about lol?

 

[PensandCaps]

Zucker was absolutely fantastic last year.

Rust was the problem in the top 6.

 

[molon labe]

Zucker was absolutely fantastic last year.

Rust was the problem in the top 6.

Zucker: 27G 21A -4
Rust: 20G 26A -4

That was Zucker's best and Rusts' worst. Zucker was also making 400k more. I guess the good(?) news is Reilly Smith is like the same thing as Zucker. Same spasms on the ice, same tenacity(?), same production, etc. He has also done that in non-contract years. I personally think it's a half-measure to look at our top 6 and think it's good enough as it was to keep it the same going forward...because that's totally ignoring the elephant in the room wrg to Sid/Geno aging.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Zucker: 27G 21A -4
Rust: 20G 26A -4

That was Zucker's best and Rusts' worst. Zucker was also making 400k more. I guess the good(?) news is Reilly Smith is like the same thing as Zucker. Same spasms on the ice, same tenacity(?), same production, etc. He has also done that in non-contract years. I personally think it's a half-measure to look at our top 6 and think it's good enough as it was to keep it the same going forward...because that's totally ignoring the elephant in the room wrg to Sid/Geno aging.

The contract year thing is played out. Especially with a guy like Zucker. He plays all his shifts all out, always has. That's why he's so well liked by his teammates

 

[PensandCaps]

Zucker: 27G 21A -4
Rust: 20G 26A -4

That was Zucker's best and Rusts' worst. Zucker was also making 400k more. I guess the good(?) news is Reilly Smith is like the same thing as Zucker. Same spasms on the ice, same tenacity(?), same production, etc. He has also done that in non-contract years. I personally think it's a half-measure to look at our top 6 and think it's good enough as it was to keep it the same going forward...because that's totally ignoring the elephant in the room wrg to Sid/Geno aging.

Rust got empty net time and #1PP opportunities.

So comparing raw stats with zero context is pretty dumb. Obviously because what Zucker did was all at 5v5, makes his stat line much more impressive.

 

[tom_servo]

If we want a more entertaining on-ice product, we don't need Karlsson. We just need to fire our boring ass coaching staff, incidentally.

To me, it simply no longer feels like an underachieving team. There's not a whole lot of potential for a new guy to unlock IMO.

I also think we overrate what effect coaching changes had on past teams. Bylsma rescued '09 but needed to win only two more playoff games than the prior guy. Sullivan's rise coincided with major roster boosts and he looked like a stud compared to a one-season non NHL caliber coach.

We're midfielders on the decline. New guy behind the bench isn't solving that (though it could be worth a shot, why not). I think a base-clearing slugger opens the most possibilities for relevancy.

Only question is risk IMO. Coaching change carries very little, and even a seemingly discounted EK could mean quite a bit (and could be futile). Or we could be in an unsalvageable situation with nothing left for us except posting in this thread for another five or ten years.

 

[metalan2]

Rust got empty net time and #1PP opportunities.

So comparing raw stats with zero context is pretty dumb. Obviously because what Zucker did was all at 5v5, makes his stat line much more impressive.

Yea, Zucker was far superior than Rust also year in every way. Imagine if Zuck got PP time that he earned.