Recalled/Assigned: Pens recall D Brian Dumoulin

[MrBurghundy]

We have no reason to waive or trade him though. It he wasn't signed through next year I'd agree. Next year he will hit the waiver wire or 6th rounder territory. He will be the 8th dman entering the playoffs and Despres sent back down. It's just the way it goes.

They may carry eight, but I just can't see it. They clearly don't value him very highly, and he's sitting at #9-#10 on the depth chart depending on if Dumoulin starts a few games over him here coming up. This is just what this team does.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I appreciate the optimism, but we should know by now how this Bortuzzo situation will resolve itself. He is not going to be playing much the rest of the season. 6th or 7th dman next year. It is what it is.

Probably. I'm hoping Shero might make 2-3 mid-level moves this deadline instead of going for the blockbuster like last year. Basically moves to improve the skill on our 3rd line, the toughness on our 4th, and moves that ensure Bort is a go-to bottom pairing option, not "one of many potentials". That would probably involve moving Niskanen though and with the injury situation we can be sure that part at least, won't happen anytime soon.

The thing that I believe will never change, is KCD. Pascal could be that "3rd line improvement" as we've said 1051 times... but that's not happening while Bylsma is coaching this team. So I've given up on the "#1 RW Trade" idea. Maybe Bennett will earn that next fall after a big playoff or something... but things will have to happen just right for him to get a look.

 

[cygnus47]

Probably. I'm hoping Shero might make 2-3 mid-level moves this deadline instead of going for the blockbuster like last year. Basically moves to improve the skill on our 3rd line, the toughness on our 4th, and moves that ensure Bort is a go-to bottom pairing option, not "one of many potentials". That would probably involve moving Niskanen though and with the injury situation we can be sure that part at least, won't happen anytime soon.

The thing that I believe will never change, is KCD. Pascal could be that "3rd line improvement" as we've said 1051 times... but that's not happening while Bylsma is coaching this team. So I've given up on the "#1 RW Trade" idea. Maybe Bennett will earn that next fall after a big playoff or something... but things will have to happen just right for him to get a look.

If Dupuis plays well on the third line, Bylsma will just see that as a reason to promote him. If he plays badly, then the chemistry isn't there and he'll revert to KCD. Its a no win situation.

 

[jmelm]

Upon a quick overview of the last several posts in this thread, it doesn't appear that anyone acknowledged they had their panties in a bunch or were crying for no reason about Bortuzzo getting the shaft and not being appreciated when it was he who ended up playing instead of Dumoulin the other night. It still doesn't change the fact that he's been getting too much of the shaft lately and undeserving of the scratches, but no one even bothered to recant their whining about this fact. It's just funny how slanted people's actions are around here most of the time. Bad news, bad interpretations and bad expectations seem to get most of the attention around here than what is being done well.

Probably. I'm hoping Shero might make 2-3 mid-level moves this deadline instead of going for the blockbuster like last year. Basically moves to improve the skill on our 3rd line, the toughness on our 4th, and moves that ensure Bort is a go-to bottom pairing option, not "one of many potentials". That would probably involve moving Niskanen though and with the injury situation we can be sure that part at least, won't happen anytime soon.

I won't respond to the deadline thing, because I think things will be MUCH different this year than in years past, but regarding the defense....

I think that Bortuzzo WILL be a permanent fixture of the bottom pairing next year, and I think Despres will join him there, since he won't be waiver-exempt (unless he's moved). I think the pairing we saw the other night with those 2 will be a harbinger of what will be coming for next year; and even though Dumo and Harry could play in the NHL, that they'll stay in WBS for one more year. This is what I think we'll see:

Scuderi--Letang
Maatta--Martin
Despres--Bortuzzo

Samuelsson, who also won't be waiver-exempt will either make it as the 7th D if he performs well, or we'll bring in a low-priced veteran for that role. But that's how I think the D-corps will be mapped out for next year. Even with the cap going up, I think that space will be reserved for a forward rather than to re-sign Brooks, Engo or Nisky and that those 3 will still be gone. If any of them stayed, it would virtually guarantee that they were kept to make one of the young guys expendable, but I think they'll be gone because this team knows where its organizational needs are: at forward.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I see the pairings more like...

Scuderi, Letang
Despres, Martin
Maatta, Bortuzzo

Regardless of where they are, I think the ice time is there for all 3 pairings to get significant amount of time.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

We have no reason to waive or trade him though. It he wasn't signed through next year I'd agree. Next year he will hit the waiver wire or 6th rounder territory. He will be the 8th dman entering the playoffs and Despres sent back down. It's just the way it goes.

We have too many Dman. Someone has to go.

Shero doesn't have the balls to move Nisky or Orpik some Brother will get the Strait/Tangradi treatment.

 

[Shady Machine]

We have too many Dman. Someone has to go.

Shero doesn't have the balls to move Nisky or Orpik some Brother will get the Strait/Tangradi treatment.

Like I said, I expect Despres to be sent back down if we ever get fully healthy. So no, we don't have too many dmen.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Like I said, I expect Despres to be sent back down if we ever get fully healthy. So no, we don't have too many dmen.

1 Des should not play another AHL game in his life.

2 we'd still have too many Dmen. We need to move two to get to 7 Dmen.

I'd move Nisky and Engo and run:
Tang Scuds
Orpik Martin
Des Ollie
Bort

 

[Shady Machine]

1 Des should not play another AHL game in his life.

2 we'd still have too many Dmen. We need to move two to get to 7 Dmen.

I'd move Nisky and Engo and run:
Tang Scuds
Orpik Martin
Des Ollie
Bort

We can and will carry 8 into the playoffs. Despres WILL be sent back to the AHL if we actually get healthy. I'm not advocating what should happen, I'm saying what will happen. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

 

[Pens1566]

I've said it before, we need to move Orpik. Like as soon as possible once he's healthy.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

We can and will carry 8 into the playoffs. Despres WILL be sent back to the AHL if we actually get healthy. I'm not advocating what should happen, I'm saying what will happen. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

That's your opinion and I don't agree with it. Not too hard to understand.

IMO Des has shown too much to be sent down again so Shero will waive or trade Bort for scraps.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's your opinion and I don't agree with it. Not too hard to understand.

IMO Des has shown too much to be sent down again so Shero will waive or trade Bort for scraps.

Fair enough. I just think Bortuzzo is too valuable to just waive or trade for a late round pick. I think because Despres is waiver exempt and how Bylsma views Nisky means that they will just send Despres down. Then after the deadline they can call him back up and they can roll with 9 dmen.

The point is, there is no reason to lose Bortuzzo this year. By the time we are healthy, assuming no other injuries, it will likely be mid January to February anyway. So if we have to send down Despres, it will only be for a few weeks.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I see the pairings more like...

Scuderi, Letang
Despres, Martin
Maatta, Bortuzzo

Regardless of where they are, I think the ice time is there for all 3 pairings to get significant amount of time.

Yes, that would be ideal for next season. Will it actually happen? lolz

 

[jmelm]

I see the pairings more like...

Scuderi, Letang
Despres, Martin
Maatta, Bortuzzo

Regardless of where they are, I think the ice time is there for all 3 pairings to get significant amount of time.

I thought about this option a fair bit, as well, asked myself, well would it look like if if Maatta-Martin didn't have great chemistry?, and I came up with those same pairs, but then I thought to myself...

- Maatta develops chemistry with everyone. He has been great no matter who he has played with. So I don't think it would be a problem for him + Martin playing together.

- As much as I love how the Bortuzzo-Maatta combination has looked this year, that would almost make Martin a 3rd pairing Dman. Sure you could say 2a and 2b, but Martin is a guy who can log 25+ minutes per night, and while I definitely believe Maatta can (and especially by next year, do so on a regular basis), I am not sure Despres is ready to play 25+/night yet.

So that's why I thought putting those 2 together and then having the uber-huge & physical pairing of Despres-Bortuzzo, which could end up being a great shut-down pair for a lot of years in the future. And it will be a great way to get Simon & Bort acclimated to playing in the NHL every night for 82 games, and playing with each other.

 

[YeeYee]

We can and will carry 8 into the playoffs. Despres WILL be sent back to the AHL if we actually get healthy. I'm not advocating what should happen, I'm saying what will happen. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

yea I totally agree with this. while I hate it , its definitely going to happen. Engelland is ahead of him on the depth chart( I base that on the fact that he plays almost 5 min a game more then him and he plays on the PP before him). when everyone is healthy they have no choice, the numbers don't add up for him, and there is nothing about DB's actions to suggest that he has a chance to stay up at all.

 

[wgknestrick]

I thought about this option a fair bit, as well, asked myself, well would it look like if if Maatta-Martin didn't have great chemistry?, and I came up with those same pairs, but then I thought to myself...

- Maatta develops chemistry with everyone. He has been great no matter who he has played with. So I don't think it would be a problem for him + Martin playing together.

- As much as I love how the Bortuzzo-Maatta combination has looked this year, that would almost make Martin a 3rd pairing Dman. Sure you could say 2a and 2b, but Martin is a guy who can log 25+ minutes per night, and while I definitely believe Maatta can (and especially by next year, do so on a regular basis), I am not sure Despres is ready to play 25+/night yet.

So that's why I thought putting those 2 together and then having the uber-huge & physical pairing of Despres-Bortuzzo, which could end up being a great shut-down pair for a lot of years in the future. And it will be a great way to get Simon & Bort acclimated to playing in the NHL every night for 82 games, and playing with each other.

Maatta was pretty bad with Engo, but Engo is by far our worst D man.

 

[cygnus47]

1 Des should not play another AHL game in his life.

We all said that he should have been in every game last year and playing tougher minutes then he got benched anyway. Logic and performance don't dictate Bylsma's decisions.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I thought about this option a fair bit, as well, asked myself, well would it look like if if Maatta-Martin didn't have great chemistry?, and I came up with those same pairs, but then I thought to myself...

- Maatta develops chemistry with everyone. He has been great no matter who he has played with. So I don't think it would be a problem for him + Martin playing together.

- As much as I love how the Bortuzzo-Maatta combination has looked this year, that would almost make Martin a 3rd pairing Dman. Sure you could say 2a and 2b, but Martin is a guy who can log 25+ minutes per night, and while I definitely believe Maatta can (and especially by next year, do so on a regular basis), I am not sure Despres is ready to play 25+/night yet.

So that's why I thought putting those 2 together and then having the uber-huge & physical pairing of Despres-Bortuzzo, which could end up being a great shut-down pair for a lot of years in the future. And it will be a great way to get Simon & Bort acclimated to playing in the NHL every night for 82 games, and playing with each other.

I'm with you at the end there:

Scuderi Letang
Martin Maatta
Despres Bortuzzo

is freakin' outstanding. All three pairings will have balance, and that bottom pair will be very tough to play against, and could rapidly become the best shutdown pairing we've seen in a while.

 

[Jacob]

We aren't going to re-sign Niskanen and his value's never been higher so, once we're healthy, he's gotta be traded. No reason not to.

 

[mpp9]

I wouldn't mind rolling Letang, Scuds and Martin on separate pairings.

Maatta-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Scuds

 

[jmelm]

We aren't going to re-sign Niskanen and his value's never been higher so, once we're healthy, he's gotta be traded. No reason not to.

It's VERY hard to argue with this, and especially with Orpik being on the shelf. From the balancing act of asset management AND wanting to win now, it makes sense to trade one of these 2 and keep the other. Orpik's size, experience and physicality make him more valuable, to us and other teams, for the stretch run. But with Orpik hurt, even if it's only short-term, some teams tight against the cap, and Nisky playing his best hockey of his career at a great cap hit, unless we planned on re-signing him (which would be strange, because then there would be a cascade of other moves), trading him now would be the wisest option.


There's still the part of me, in my gut, that says the Pens won't be sellers this year and they won't be buyers/renters, which means they may hang on to Nisky and Orpik. in other years I may agree, but with how much we traded away in assets last year, whatever we can do to bring in any additional picks or prospects would be wise. The 3 second round picks we moved for Leopold and Murray is the reason our depth is thin at the forward ranks.

 

[NatureBoy]

The 2 D-Men that should be gone are Niskanen and Engo. I have no problem with Engelland, he is a nice depth guy to have and he comes cheap. BUT with the coach we have, he always is in the lineup ahead of players like Bortuzzo and that just can´t be the case.

Niskanen is playing well right now but come Play-Off time he will be the worst of the 6 defenders. Bortuzzo, Despres or even Dumoulin need that playing time, they then would be ready for the Play Offs imo.

Guys like that can and will improve, Niskanen and Engelland are what they are. Just like last year.....it won´t happen unfortunately. And I believe Niskanen would get us the best return at the trade deadline.

Is it a risk to play a lot of young guys in the Play-Offs? Sure it is! But it can´t be worse with guys like Maata, Despres, Bortuzzo paired with Scuderi, Letang, Martin or Orpik than it is with Engelland and Niskanen last year, right?

Scuderi, Martin, Letang, Maata, Orpik, Bortuzzo, Despres would be my Top 7......

 

[Farnham4top6]

I've said it before, we need to move Orpik. Like as soon as possible once he's healthy.

Agree, he is worthless and his crappy "saving himself" mentality needs to be kept as far away as possible from the team.

 

[Gallatin]

Well here we are again, the Pens have recalled Dumoulin. If he plays, my money is on a much better performance than last year. He's been really good in the A lately, mos def outplaying Harrington, and I am in the corner that believes he is a legit NHL top 4 D someday soon.

 

[billybudd]

Well here we are again, the Pens have recalled Dumoulin. If he plays, my money is on a much better performance than last year. He's been really good in the A lately, mos def outplaying Harrington, and I am in the corner that believes he is a legit NHL top 4 D someday soon.

I like Dumoulin. Seems to rattle easily in the NHL so far, but he'll need to just play through that. Eventually, it'll stop and we'll never remember that it was an issue.