Speculation: Pens Have Spoken to Several Free Agent Goalies (Théodore, Bryz, and the Like)

[Crafton]

hadn't seen this mentioned yet:

Francois Gagnon of RDS reports (link in French) the 2002 Hart Trophy winner has three NHL teams looking into signing him. Among the possible suitors are the Pittsburgh Penguins, Nashville Predators, and San Jose Sharks. All three teams will start the season with questionable backup situations.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/26/report-three-teams-checking-in-on-jose-theodore/

here's the RDS report [brought to you by the power of google translate]:

Following the surgery performed by veteran Tomas Vokoun who was stripped of a blood clot in the pool last weekend, the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Theodore clan had preliminary discussions. The Penguins expect to know more about the recovery time of Vokoun before resuming discussions.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/lnh/théodore-la-retraite-peut-attendre-1.663757

Click to read more...

 

[MrBurghundy]

Par for the course. The Pens bringing in a vet to take NHL playing time away from a younger player. Can't we even give Zatkoff a shot first?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

If he signs with the Pens they'll be the uncontested league leaders in French-Canadian goalies who have had beach balls photoshopped into pictures of them giving up goals.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Par for the course. The Pens bringing in a vet to take NHL playing time away from a younger player. Can't we even give Zatkoff a shot first?

I want to give him a shot, but I don't want to go into the playoffs with MAF as the starter and Zatkoff as the backup. I think there's a highly likely chance of that happening.

Unless we're willing to wait and try to trade Orpik, Niskanen, Glass and Adams for a goalie later.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I want to give him a shot, but I don't want to go into the playoffs with MAF as the starter and Zatkoff as the backup. I think there's a highly likely chance of that happening.

Unless we're willing to wait and try to trade Orpik, Niskanen, Glass and Adams for a goalie later.

You never know unless its actually given a chance. I'm afraid of that too but I'd rather learn this now than later. That's the very problem this organization has.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Par for the course. The Pens bringing in a vet to take NHL playing time away from a younger player. Can't we even give Zatkoff a shot first?

Inasmuch as this organization makes that mistake (and it does), I think the goaltending position is a completely different animal. This is a Stanley Cup contending team, you need an insurance policy in the event that your goaltender goes down (or craps the bed as Fleury is wont to do). That guy shouldn't be a rookie, unless you feel comfortable that said rookie could realistically backstop the team to a championship. Zatkoff will get his turn, but it shouldn't be as a shaky MAF's backup this season.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Inasmuch as this organization makes that mistake, I think the goaltending position is a completely different animal. This is a Stanley Cup contending team, you need an insurance policy in the event that your goaltender goes down (or ******** the bed as Fleury is wont to do). That guy shouldn't be a rookie, unless you feel comfortable that said rookie could backstop the team to a championship. Zatkoff will get his turn, but it shouldn't be as a shaky MAF's backup this season.

So when will he get that turn exactly?

 

[UnrealMachine]

the 2002 Hart Trophy winner

This phrase is missing an asterisk, question mark, and a Mr. Yuk sticker.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You never know unless its actually given a chance. I'm afraid of that too but I'd rather learn this now than later. That's the very problem this organization has.

That's why I want to give him a chance. Give him a chance in the regular season, but be prepared to trade for a new goalie if he doesn't pan out by a certain point. If they're prepared to trade for a goalie later, then go for it.

It's not a comfortable feeling though, and it's more on Fleury than Zatkoff. It's also an insane amount of pressure to put a rookie under, and he'll be exposed to Fleury's issues during that time, too.

I don't want them to **** up another goalie, or contribute to their downfall rather.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

So when will he get that turn exactly?

When our starting position is secure enough that there's not a strong chance (barring injury) of our backup having to assume the starting role in the playoffs.

 

[MrBurghundy]

When our starting position is secure enough that there's not a strong chance (barring injury) of our backup having to assume the starting role in the playoffs.

So basically he'll never get a shot here.

By that token how is this team going to ever find another goalie to replace Fleury? They probably won't have the cap space to sign a veteran one that's good enough and any unproven netminder will fall under your criteria. What will we do with Jarry when he's ready? Or Hartzell?

 

[radapex]

Inasmuch as this organization makes that mistake (and it does), I think the goaltending position is a completely different animal. This is a Stanley Cup contending team, you need an insurance policy in the event that your goaltender goes down (or craps the bed as Fleury is wont to do). That guy shouldn't be a rookie, unless you feel comfortable that said rookie could realistically backstop the team to a championship. Zatkoff will get his turn, but it shouldn't be as a shaky MAF's backup this season.

Let's not forget that Zatkoff doesn't have the most glowing reputation for playoff play himself... it's perhaps even worse that Fleury's.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10457

[FONT="Courier New"]SEASON    TEAM                             LEAGUE   GP   GAA    SV%
-------   ------------------------------   ------   --   ----   ----
2004-05   Sioux City Musketeers            USHL      2   8.88   .706
2008-09   Ontario Reign                    ECHL      7   3.73   .872
2010-11   Manchester Monarchs              AHL       5   3.80   .891
2011-12   Manchester Monarchs              AHL       2   4.34   .865
2012-13   Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins   AHL       5   5.45   .838[/FONT]

It's fairly unusual to see a goalie struggle in playoffs at every level then suddenly put it together in the NHL. Fleury's history isn't much better. Going back to his QMJHL days, he's only put up a .900 or better sv% in 3 out of 14 trips to the playoffs.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Trading Orpik, Niskanen and Glass (burying) would help the cap situation for a new goalie, and Vokoun wouldn't count anymore.

Did anyone actually watch Zatkoff's playoff performances? Just to get an idea of how everything was.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

So basically he'll never get a shot here.

By that token how is this team going to ever find another goalie to replace Fleury? They probably won't have the cap space to sign a veteran one that's good enough and any unproven netminder will fall under your criteria. What will we do with Jarry when he's ready? Or Hartzell?

It's just not prudent to hand the goaltender position to an unproven player, particularly on a bonafide SCF contender.

There is a proven model of incrementally increasing the workload of young or unproven goaltenders until they are ready. Teams that try to develop goalies via trial by fire end up with Marc-Andre Fleurys (or worse) ~99 times out of 100 and Patrick Roys once or twice.

 

[radapex]

Trading Orpik, Niskanen and Glass (burying) would help the cap situation for a new goalie, and Vokoun wouldn't count anymore.

Did anyone actually watch Zatkoff's playoff performances? Just to get an idea of how everything was.

IIRC, his playoff failures in Manchester were the #1 reason the Kings let him walk last summer.

It makes sense that the Pens would be speaking to some potential veteran backups. With Vokoun likely done, they only have 1 goalie with any NHL experience (Fleury) and only 1 with any significant AHL experience (Zatkoff) within the entire organization. That's not the kind of situation a potential contender wants to find themselves in.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Let's not forget that Zatkoff doesn't have the most glowing reputation for playoff play himself... it's perhaps even worse that Fleury's.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10457

[FONT="Courier New"]SEASON    TEAM                             LEAGUE   GP   GAA    SV%
-------   ------------------------------   ------   --   ----   ----
2004-05   Sioux City Musketeers            USHL      2   8.88   .706
2008-09   Ontario Reign                    ECHL      7   3.73   .872
2010-11   Manchester Monarchs              AHL       5   3.80   .891
2011-12   Manchester Monarchs              AHL       2   4.34   .865
2012-13   Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins   AHL       5   5.45   .838[/FONT]

It's fairly unusual to see a goalie struggle in playoffs at every level then suddenly put it together in the NHL. Fleury's history isn't much better. Going back to his QMJHL days, he's only put up a .900 or better sv% in 3 out of 14 trips to the playoffs.

Holly **** I didn't realize his numbers were that bad last year in the playoffs. I remember they benching him but holly cow that's bad.

 

[Shockmaster]

Was there any announcement as to how long Vokoun will be out? If the Penguins are talking to Theodore, I have to wonder if they think Vokoun is going to be a non-factor this season.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Was there any announcement as to how long Vokoun will be out? If the Penguins are talking to Theodore, they must think Vokoun is going to be a non-factor this season.

Nothing yet, he was released from the hospital yesterday I believe. + say we do sign Theodore for example he might need 3-4 weeks before he is ready to play a game as well. I don't think he was invited to any team's camp but could be wrong

 

[Speaking Moistly]

IIRC, his playoff failures in Manchester were the #1 reason the Kings let him walk last summer.

It makes sense that the Pens would be speaking to some potential veteran backups. With Vokoun likely done, they only have 1 goalie with any NHL experience (Fleury) and only 1 with any significant AHL experience (Zatkoff) within the entire organization. That's not the kind of situation a potential contender wants to find themselves in.

I meant did anyone know if it was just him that collapsed or if it the defense/team as well. It's probably him but a full picture would be nice. They had better actually handle Zatkoff properly, and that means addressing this problem.

The one experienced goalie we have is experienced enough to show that he can't be trusted in the playoffs. TBH, it's not a good environment for Zatkoff to be getting experience in.

 

[MrBurghundy]

It's just not prudent to hand the goaltender position to an unproven player, particularly on a bonafide SCF contender.

There is a proven model of incrementally increasing the workload of young or unproven goaltenders until they are ready. Teams that try to develop goalies via trial by fire end up with Marc-Andre Fleurys (or worse) ~99 times out of 100 and Patrick Roys once or twice.

How do you incrementally increase that workload though? At some point they need NHL time and that won't come unless they are backing up somebody at the NHL level. You can hope for an injury, but thats a crap shoot for one, and secondly you might just go out and get a proven replacement anyway like we are currently discussing.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

How do you incrementally increase that workload though? At some point they need NHL time and that won't come unless they are backing up somebody at the NHL level. You can hope for an injury, but thats a crap shoot for one, and secondly you might just go out and get a proven replacement anyway like we are currently discussing.

Maybe I didn't articulate my point properly: the venue to get a (slowly increasing) workload is in the NHL. It just needs to be in the right NHL situation...in Zatkoff's case, that situation would be playing behind a goalie who - barring injury - will be the team's starting goalie in the playoffs OR on a team that isn't throwing away a legitimate chance at a Stanley Cup in the event that he falters.

Unfortunately, the Pens don't have the right opportunity given Zatkoff's resume and development needs at the moment. This misalignment of team/player needs happens all the time (see: Staal, Jordan...different factors, but the same principle).

Regardless of whether Zatkoff does or doesn't have a future in Pittsburgh, his time to prove it certainly isn't now, IMO.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I guess I just disagree. At the very least see how he does at the beginning of the season and go from there.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

I guess I just disagree. At the very least see how he does at the beginning of the season and go from there.

Well, if that's all you're advocating for, then I don't disagree: I'm not against giving him a cup of coffee in the NHL...

 

[MrBurghundy]

Well, if that's all you're advocating for, then I don't disagree: I'm not against giving him a cup of coffee in the NHL...

I'm just afraid they will bring in a vet asap and he'll never even get a game or two to prove what he can do.

 

[Darth Vitale]

He's pretty freakin old at this point and best days long gone, but we could do worse in a pinch.

All jokes about names aside Zatkoff looks like a crapshoot to me. I haven't seen him play much but from listening to you guys sounds like he has a lot of the same flaws Fleury does and his numbers are worse than I thought they were. I thought coming out of LA he was supposed to have been a pretty highly respected prospect but they decided to let him go on account of no place for him to go (Bernier was still there at the time). Looks instead like like he was a typical "needs a fresh start somewhere else" type player.