Post-Game Talk: Pens dominate Ducks, 3-2, NHL considering contraction probably

[Terrapin]

I want Byslma gone as much as anyone else. He is a nice guy. I wouldn't mind having a beer with him. And I think he's a decent coach. He gets an incredible amount of production from low talent players, AHL call ups, etc. But he's just not the right fit anymore. I don't think the team has tuned him out, doesn't respect him, etc. I just think he's not stern enough to implement changes, or else he's not smart enough to. And since you don't need to be a hall of famer to realize Orpik and Adams blow, I'm leaning towards him not having enough balls.

That being said, the big question that few can seriously answer is, who replaces him? If you bring in a hard ass like Therien, the team will revolt. A guy with a very structured system like Constantine had, the team will revolt. A players coach would be what we have now. Mario never listened to coaches. Hell he ran Bowman out. So honestly who is the answer? Maybe someone with the highest pedigree, like Babcock, be those guys don't come easy.

 

[cygnus47]

Its that Orpik does something like that every time he touches the puck in the offensive zone. He should have backpedaled to the middle of the ice which would have opened up the entire offensive zone for him and everyone else. Despres, Maatta, Martin, Nisky, even Engo take that ice 9/10 times. Scuds and Orpik just play hot potato.

 

[MrBrightside]

I want Byslma gone as much as anyone else. He is a nice guy. I wouldn't mind having a beer with him. And I think he's a decent coach. He gets an incredible amount of production from low talent players, AHL call ups, etc. But he's just not the right fit anymore. I don't think the team has tuned him out, doesn't respect him, etc. I just think he's not stern enough to implement changes, or else he's not smart enough to. And since you don't need to be a hall of famer to realize Orpik and Adams blow, I'm leaning towards him not having enough balls.

That being said, the big question that few can seriously answer is, who replaces him? If you bring in a hard ass like Therien, the team will revolt. A guy with a very structured system like Constantine had, the team will revolt. A players coach would be what we have now. Mario never listened to coaches. Hell he ran Bowman out. So honestly who is the answer? Maybe someone with the highest pedigree, like Babcock, be those guys don't come easy.

Laviolette would be my choice.

 

[KIRK]

Great post TD. It really sheds some light on the point I was trying to make.

He is intimidated by them and all three of them know he yields no real power over them. Deep down they probably see him as a fourth line plug who lucked into the job. It's human nature (I do have a ton of respect for what DB has done with his life, but I'm not a generational talent either).

That's why I have suggested a guy like L. Robinson who is not only on par with these two, he is well beyond what they will ever achieve in their careers. He is also a brilliant hockey mind, particularly on the back end.

What could Sid or Geno possibly say to this guy if he benched them, honestly?

"How many cups did you win, kid? One... Let's talk about what it takes to win back to back to back to back cups, ok?"

"I don't know what I'm doing, kid? See this HOF ring? 6 cups as a player and 3 as a coach. What you got to say? Thought so"

You are being far too generous to Bylsma.

This situation is entirely of his own making.

Want to know how I know that: Like his 3rd game coaching Magnitogorsk during the lockout, Paul Maurice benched Geno for the 3rd period of a game.

Geno's home town, where his coming back made him the hero. Some 'nothing' Canadian coach. And, he benched the hero.

Why?

He didn't like how Geno was playing defense.

So, with respect, I don't want to hear any more of this 'woe is Bylsma, it's hard to keep a superstar accountable' bull****.

Sid and Geno aren't two prima donnas. Sid is the consummate team guy. And Geno . . . Geno could've buried Maurice for doing that, and did the exact opposite.

You want to know why Bylsma can't hold Sid and Geno or any other veteran accountable? It's because he chose and chooses not to do it, and now it's too late to start doing it and somehow, after five years of mustache boy, be creditable about it.

 

[KIRK]

What's even funnier is that even with the worse 4th line in the league, a smart coach could easily shelter that deficiency with a couple of simple moves, even to the point of turning it into a weapon.

1. Dress 7 defensemen. This of course means you remove 1 forward from the lineup. Considering the fact that your bottom six consists mostly of turds, this is a good thing.

2. You replace that forward in essence by double shifting Sid & Geno, Goc/Sutter. You carefully time these by using TV timeouts.

Kunitz-Sid-Lee
Juice-Geno-Neal
Pyatt-Sutter-Beau
Goc-Sid/Geno/Sutter-Vitale

Not the greatest thing in the world, but suddenly it creates some versatility, and most importantly, makes things much harder for opponent coaches who obsessively match lines.

3. Just as important, by having 7 D out there, you can REDUCE the minutes of guys like Orpik & Scuds, who seem to get worse the more they play.

Just realized this thread will be closed soon. Maybe I'll just start a thread...

You're benching Stempniak?

My call:

- Between now and when Beau gets back, it's an audition for Stempniak with Sid and Kunitz.

- If it works, then I'd be inclined to roll Beau with Geno and Neal and have Sutter center JJ and Vitale.

- 7 defensemen is fine, but it won't happen.

- I also would be inclined to play Pyatt a lot with Geno and Neal until Beau returns. Better and worse, we know what we've got in JJ. Superior player, inferior complement. Having JJ and Neal means Geno does almost all the dirty work, which means Geno is playing away from his strengths rather than to them. Call me crazy, but the purpose of a Geno centered line should be to get the most out of Geno, not Jokinen. If it's Pyatt, then so be it. Beau, IMO, would be better still. I don't care how many points JMN put up during the regular season. It's this year's Fedotenko-Geno-Sykora, a line designed to accrue points in the regular season and falter for the lack of a puck retriever in the playoffs.

 

[MtlPenFan]

You're benching Stempniak?

My call:

- Between now and when Beau gets back, it's an audition for Stempniak with Sid and Kunitz.

- If it works, then I'd be inclined to roll Beau with Geno and Neal and have Sutter center JJ and Vitale.

- 7 defensemen is fine, but it won't happen.

- I also would be inclined to play Pyatt a lot with Geno and Neal until Beau returns. Better and worse, we know what we've got in JJ. Superior player, inferior complement. Having JJ and Neal means Geno does almost all the dirty work, which means Geno is playing away from his strengths rather than to them. Call me crazy, but the purpose of a Geno centered line should be to get the most out of Geno, not Jokinen. If it's Pyatt, then so be it. Beau, IMO, would be better still. I don't care how many points JMN put up during the regular season. It's this year's Fedotenko-Geno-Sykora, a line designed to accrue points in the regular season and falter for the lack of a puck retriever in the playoffs.

No, LEE is playing.

 

[#66]

Something that you guys aren't getting into, and TD hinted at it, is that the "coddle the superstar" attitude has been part of Pens hockey for a long, long time. Even if Sid and Malkin aren't the type to need it... they get it. Its a Penguins thing even more than a Bylsma thing.

To be blunt, Bylsma is being turned into EJ. That's what the Pens want and the "sittin at the dock of the bay" attitude is back in full force.

 

[cygnus47]

I mean seriously

Kunitz - Crosby - Stempniak
Pyatt - Geno - Knee-all
Goc - Sutter - JJ
Glass - Vitale - Adams

for now.

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
JJ - Geno - Real Knee-all
Goc - Sutter - Stempniak
Glass - Vitale - Engo/Gibbons/Pyatt

With a little health

Imagine if Duper was still available

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
JJ - Geno - Knee-for-all
Duper - Sutter - Stempniak
Glass - Vitale - Goc

That looks like real forward depth.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You are being far too generous to Bylsma.

This situation is entirely of his own making.

Want to know how I know that: Like his 3rd game coaching Magnitogorsk during the lockout, Paul Maurice benched Geno for the 3rd period of a game.

Geno's home town, where his coming back made him the hero. Some 'nothing' Canadian coach. And, he benched the hero.

Why?

He didn't like how Geno was playing defense.

So, with respect, I don't want to hear any more of this 'woe is Bylsma, it's hard to keep a superstar accountable' bull****.

Sid and Geno aren't two prima donnas. Sid is the consummate team guy. And Geno . . . Geno could've buried Maurice for doing that, and did the exact opposite.

You want to know why Bylsma can't hold Sid and Geno or any other veteran accountable? It's because he chose and chooses not to do it, and now it's too late to start doing it and somehow, after five years of mustache boy, be creditable about it.

You can't really compare a situation in the K to a situation in the NHL.

The last time a NHL superstar got benched and had a feud with his coach, the coach got called a "fat ****" and was eventually fired. We saw that coach last night.

Like I said, I could see DB taking a shift from Malkin, maybe... there is zero chance he would bench Crosby. Crosby is the most powerful figure in the sport right now outside of Bettman. If DB pisses Crosby off, he's done like our hot sauce loving friend. You know it, I know it, and DB knows it.

I have been saying for years DB would rather be best buds with this team and has failed to create a culture of accountability, but he truly has no authority over Crosby or Malkin.

 

[ColePens]

Lavs would be great for 1-2 years. He's not a long-term guy. The way he coaches through a playoff series is tremendous. However - every single team I've seen him coach crumbles BADLY after a few years.

 

[Tender Rip]

They're having pillow fights and playing whiffle ball in practice, having moustache boy competitions after a 5-1 loss in front of 60 thousand spectators. Canceling the morning skate after getting thrashed.

"At what point is it about personal accountability?" is a question, in sports, that is normally reserved when the coaching staff has done everything it could possibly do to put the players in a position to succeed.

To suggest that, for example, Olli Maatta is showing a lack of "personal accountability" when he doesn't perform after the coach chains Brooks Anchor around his neck is, to me, pretty risible.

As far as I am concerned, that ball is out of the park, searching for the nearest river to disappear in.
Well done.

 

[tinkezione]

If Goc stays on the 4th line, I have to think that hurts the chances of him re-signing.

If Sutter is a goner on the off-season for Kesler, Goc will find his spot on 3rd. All will be good. (Vitale or Sill for 4th center, then.)

 

[End of Line]

If Sutter is a goner on the off-season for Kesler, Goc will find his spot on 3rd. All will be good. (Vitale or Sill for 4th center, then.)

Give me Sill on LW next to Vitale next season.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Sid seems to have been tuning bylsma out these past two games especially he has been HORRI-BAD...

 

[pistolpete11]

Kunitz-Crosby-Stempniak
BB-Malkin-Neal
JJ-Sutter-Goc
Pyatt/Gibbons/Megna/Harry Z/Engelland/anyone not named Glass or Adams-Vitale-Glass/Adams

You can still use Adams OR Glass on the PK, but you can double shift Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, and even Goc with some guys that at least have the possibility of scoring. Use Pyatt with Geno and Neal until BB gets back so the third line can build some chemistry.

 

[WayneSid9987]

J.Martin, Hynes, and Laviolette.

I probably wouldn't go Hynes cuz it's all of DB systems all over again but he does seem to be better at coaching the defensive end of things.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

Give me Sill on LW next to Vitale next season.

So much yes.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Vitale isn't back next year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Vitale isn't back next year.

He is only one point away from his career high in points, in 20 less games. Great on face offs. Fast, gritty, makes things happen. Everything the fourth line needs.

But you can't be having that now.... Adams will be back and they will re-sign Glass, because you gotta keep that fourth line slow, untalented and ineffective.

So ya, he will most likely leave for a team with a coach that doesn't sit him for inferior players.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He is only one point away from his career high in points, in 20 less games. Great on face offs. Fast, gritty, makes things happen. Everything the fourth line needs.

But you can't be having that now.... Adams will be back and they will re-sign Glass, because you gotta keep that fourth line slow, untalented and ineffective.

So ya, he will most likely leave for a team with a coach that doesn't sit him for inferior players.

ya, I can see him choosing to leave for sure.

 

[IcedCapp]

Wonder if he'd go to the Blues

 

[SaturdayNightSlegr]

Wonder if he'd go to the Blues

Gee, thanks for making me look up the Blues forward depth. I'll go cry myself to sleep now.

...

Assuming Ott is a true rental and walks, Reaves + Vitale would be the foundations of an awesome 4th line. Ever so slightly better than Gladams.....

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I guess the shootout cures a lot of what can ail you, because I'm surprised how even keeled everyone was in the first few pages of the thread. The majority of the game was embarrassing. Classic example of the score not meaning as much as it typically does.

 

[Shockmaster]

I guess the shootout cures a lot of what can ail you, because I'm surprised how even keeled everyone was in the first few pages of the thread. The majority of the game was embarrassing. Classic example of the score not meaning as much as it typically does.

Yeah. The Ducks dominated until Perry scored early in the third. Then for whatever reason they took their foot off the gas pedal and allowed the Penguins to dictate for much of the third period and OT.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I guess the shootout cures a lot of what can ail you, because I'm surprised how even keeled everyone was in the first few pages of the thread. The majority of the game was embarrassing. Classic example of the score not meaning as much as it typically does.

Probably just a case of burn out from complaining about the night before. Because from the sounds of it, a lot of the same issues from the San Jose game were present against Anaheim. So maybe folks didn't feel like repeating themselves a day later.