Post-Game Talk: Pens/Devils: A Penguins 7 day trip to a warm place in hell

[Bingo71]

PEAR?

Rotten PEAR...

 

[ColePens]

Nowhere near as bad as some people want to make it.

And I would say a number of our issues are roster related.

I don’t understand how we are paying Maatta and Johnson 7.25 mil and they can’t even be a number 4.

I like this discussion. I personally do not think it's roster related. I think it's structure related. I'll make my argument and will respectfully debate this either way (I think both sides could be right).

1) Adjustments need to occur from a structural standpoint. I made some arguments in the OP.

2) We were never going to stay on top of the speed game. When you change the game, the next move in chess is to stay a step ahead by knowing how to beat what you created. To me, that's an x's and o's thing.

3) Special teams (PP): Change it up and move around. You will score some goals. We were 1 or 2 PPs away from tying the game up earlier and it is a different game. The (lack of) powerplay loses us momentum. Create some motion plays and it will have PKs second guessing themselves.

 

[lordstanley91]

Rotten PEAR...

I like it

 

[vodeni]

ZAR hatty the other day. Time to call him up?

hatty in a 3:8 effort,

 

[ColePens]

Beware. I don't consider making playoffs a success. Or losing to eventual winners.

Lol

I'll still stand by my word because I feel the same way. I think the Red Wings "Streak" is the most laughable thing. But anywhoooo I think we will be Cup contenders. May not be this year, but we will be.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

+ Stronger Than Hate patches being made available to the public and all proceeds going to the victims

+ Sens video of players dogging assistant coach.

-Home games


Make me wonder what some of the Pens players think of their assistant coaches.
Not sure how this team can play so well in Canada but drops duces at home.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Well, I may sound like a broken record, but it's same old problems from the last season, that weren't really addressed nor by JR nor by Sully.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Beware. I don't consider making playoffs a success. Or losing to eventual SC winners.

so win the Cup or it was a failure of a season?

 

[IcedCapp]

maybe the team isn't very good

 

[Gurglesons]

I like this discussion. I personally do not think it's roster related. I think it's structure related. I'll make my argument and will respectfully debate this either way (I think both sides could be right).

1) Adjustments need to occur from a structural standpoint. I made some arguments in the OP.

2) We were never going to stay on top of the speed game. When you change the game, the next move in chess is to stay a step ahead by knowing how to beat what you created. To me, that's an x's and o's thing.

3) Special teams (PP): Change it up and move around. You will score some goals. We were 1 or 2 PPs away from tying the game up earlier and it is a different game. The (lack of) powerplay loses us momentum. Create some motion plays and it will have PKs second guessing themselves.

Meh. This goes back to a depth issue for me. When you purposefully give out contracts to players like Johnson who you know CAN’T step up above their head and they disappoint providing depth, it is no wonder you don’t succeed.

I’ll point to Bonino. People said he was over paid for what he brought while here, but he had runs where he was dominate.

Hainsey or Daley on D. Good enough to be bottom four guys, but in a pinch they were sound enough to play above their heads for stretches.

Who in our bottom six / four at forward or D is stepping up like that?

Rust maybe. Everyone else? Nope.

And in regards to structure if you think the last couple games are indicative of Sullivan. I dunno, you can take the KIRK extremist route and say they have tuned Sullivan out. I’ll take the Crosby and Malkin play better when everyone plays better. They score in bunches. Our bottom six has been terrible for two years now. That is on Rutherford.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

ZAR hatty the other day. Time to call him up?

I hope to hell not, but they might get desperate and bring up mashed potato feet. That should really propel them to new heights.

Seeing how Sheahan and Grant have the creativity of a microwave dinner, and Cullen still looks done, maybe they should bring up the creative pivot they have down there that does all the things the aforementioned do... but he can actually create offense and all.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I like this discussion. I personally do not think it's roster related. I think it's structure related. I'll make my argument and will respectfully debate this either way (I think both sides could be right).

1) Adjustments need to occur from a structural standpoint. I made some arguments in the OP.

2) We were never going to stay on top of the speed game. When you change the game, the next move in chess is to stay a step ahead by knowing how to beat what you created. To me, that's an x's and o's thing.

3) Special teams (PP): Change it up and move around. You will score some goals. We were 1 or 2 PPs away from tying the game up earlier and it is a different game. The (lack of) powerplay loses us momentum. Create some motion plays and it will have PKs second guessing themselves.

Wrong... It is coaching, but bigtime roster as well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, I may sound like a broken record, but it's same old problems from the last season, that weren't really addressed nor by JR nor by Sully.

I do think JR deserves a fair amount of criticism for how the team has done so far, his work in the 2018 off-season screamed complacency to me. You're bringing back a soon to be 42 year old Cullen, re-signing the gang and bringing in a guy who has had 1 good season in his career as your off-season forward moves? Seriously? That doesn't even touch on trading Sheary.

At least with signing Johnson, I get it in theory. But the moves they made at forward? Just screams complacency to me, from a team that isn't good enough to be complacent.

 

[Andy99]

There are no positives to this game...I can’t give a + to Murray because he gave up the first goal and it’s clear right now that giving up the first goal is a death knell to this fragile team...

If we’re going to tank, I just want to do it with the same buy-in that we went after our Cups— Hughes or bust...

 

[KIRK]

@ColePens, good stuff. Just want to add 3 things:

1. Because it is so hard to adapt, that's why hockey coaches, even ones that win cups, have short shelf lives. I've joked that maybe Sully just needed a 2nd cup before turning into Bylsma and becoming too arrogant to adapt. Maybe there was some truth to it. You cited that Caps as a team that finally adapted and was rewarded for it . . . they made that adjustment to tighten things up and counter late last year, and they made it because Trotz/Reirden finally adapted to the team they had. We'll see if Sully has it in him. I have my doubts . . .

2. As I said in the GDT, IF I'm Sully, the thing that scares the **** out of me would be Sid and Geno BOTH playing like they've tuned me out. It's only 2 games, sure, but I'm not sure I've seen them BOTH this ugly out there since right before Therrien was fired. I think it bears watching. As I said, I can't see Sully NOT being safe for the rest of the year. BUT, if one thing is going to change that equation, it's Sid and Geno simultaneously playing like this.

3. Ironically, the thing that saved Sully (i.e., things from spiraling out of control) last year was a line change. This team was schizo the first half of the year, and the thing that changed things wasn't an adjustment or the warts suddenly going away. It was HGH carrying this team for 2 months.

 

[Clare2904]

So, what's Sully saying in his presser?

 

[EightyOne]

so win the Cup or it was a failure of a season?

The hell do they play the game for?

Lol.

I'm being mad, yo. And hyperbolic.

But I will say, a team with talent that does not do well, is super shitty to follow. I can enjoy the process of young teams struggling but getting better over the course of a few years. This team shouldn't need marinating.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The only positive I can come up with is that the Johnson-Letang pair was encouraging, and I think the defense falls into place way better with Dumoulin and Letang on different pairs. Letang and Dumoulin are both good enough to carry their own pairs and Maatta should be good enough to carry the bottom pair, so I think splitting Dumoulin and Letang may help the defense a lot.

The top two pairs looked pretty good. Dumo and Riikola I was really pleased with and they were getting the puck out quickly and with efficiency.

Then Sully started switching the pairs all around... maybe because the Maatta Oleksiak pairing was a train wreck... who knows.

 

[ColePens]

Meh. This goes back to a depth issue for me. When you purposefully give out contracts to players like Johnson who you know CAN’T step up above their head and they disappoint providing depth, it is no wonder you don’t succeed.

I’ll point to Bonino. People said he was over paid for what he brought while here, but he had runs where he was dominate.

Hainsey or Daley on D. Good enough to be bottom four guys, but in a pinch they were sound enough to play above their heads for stretches.

Who in our bottom six / four at forward or D is stepping up like that?

Rust maybe. Everyone else? Nope.

And in regards to structure if you think the last couple games are indicative of Sullivan. I dunno, you can take the KIRK extremist route and say they have tuned Sullivan out. I’ll take the Crosby and Malkin play better when everyone plays better. They score in bunches. Our bottom six has been terrible for two years now. That is on Rutherford.

I'm going to guess the answer is somewhat in the middle of our discussion.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Meh. This goes back to a depth issue for me. When you purposefully give out contracts to players like Johnson who you know CAN’T step up above their head and they disappoint providing depth, it is no wonder you don’t succeed.

I’ll point to Bonino. People said he was over paid for what he brought while here, but he had runs where he was dominate.

Hainsey or Daley on D. Good enough to be bottom four guys, but in a pinch they were sound enough to play above their heads for stretches.

Who in our bottom six / four at forward or D is stepping up like that?

Rust maybe. Everyone else? Nope.

Nobody is right now.

I think at F it would say Rust can (though with his new paycheck that's not really over his head anymore), Simon is showing some flashes, hopefully Sprong, Sheahan had a strong stretch last year. I'd like to see Bleuger get the chance.

On D I think Schultz is a guy that can do it, but he's out. Maatta has certainly played very well at times before too. I'm still hoping Riikola can step up.

 

[KIRK]

I do think JR deserves a fair amount of criticism for how the team has done so far, his work in the 2018 off-season screamed complacency to me. You're bringing back a soon to be 42 year old Cullen, re-signing the gang and bringing in a guy who has had 1 good season in his career as your off-season forward moves? Seriously? That doesn't even touch on trading Sheary.

At least with signing Johnson, I get it in theory. But the moves they made at forward? Just screams complacency to me, from a team that isn't good enough to be complacent.

That's a fair point. JR is hardly blame free.

What this team really needs is some young legs and energy, but after the 2nd cup, this GM and coach (like the GM and coach after the cup in 2009) went into 'everyone who helped us win the cup is irreplaceable (unless the coach hates him) and we love vets and hate any new youth' mode.

@Mr Jiggyfly has really been hammering this point. It's not just that you signed Cullen for 'leadership'. It's that you had the type of players who could help you play Sully's system and you wanted nothing to do with them because they were young and inexperienced.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm going to guess the answer is somewhat in the middle of our discussion.

It’s hard for me to not look at tonight and see Crosby and Malkin looking around the room and saying who is going to help them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The top two pairs looked pretty good. Dumo and Riikola I was really pleased with and they were getting the puck out quickly and with efficiency.

Then Sully started switching the pairs all around... maybe because the Maatta Oleksiak pairing was a train wreck... who knows.

I think that has to do with Maatta being bad, but I could be off

The defense looks great on paper with Maatta out and Schultz back in, if Johnson-Letang defies the odds and ends up a good pair. You have Dumoulin-Schultz as a strong 2nd pair and I think Riikola-Oleksiak is a solid 3rd pair with great potential too.

 

[KIRK]

The top two pairs looked pretty good. Dumo and Riikola I was really pleased with and they were getting the puck out quickly and with efficiency.

Then Sully started switching the pairs all around... maybe because the Maatta Oleksiak pairing was a train wreck... who knows.

Is it me, or does Sully almost always manage to mangle things worse when he finally decides to fix a line or a pairing?

 

[Turin]

The defense sucks. Too many passengers at forward and it’s ruining the goaltending confidence to boot.