Post-Game Talk: Pens 7, Rangers 2 - All Hail The WTF Line

[Jaded-Fan]

The startling thing is the Grand Canyon gulf between MAF and MM's stats while playing for the same team.

Startling to who?







Just kidding, it actually is startling to me, even though some predicted that Fleury was such a headcase that he would have a meltdown if he had real competition for his job.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Go leave your current job for 80% less money. Go ahead. Do it. If you won't take 80% of what you can make, then don't preach to others when they don't . These guys HAVE to make as much money as they can now...when they can. They spent their entire life to have a 6-8yr work window (on average).

On one hand, I sort of agree with this. They need to make their money when they have the chance. On the other, there are a lot of people who take jobs that pay less because they would rather have a job they actually like.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Would anyone else be surprised that our PP% is the 6th best in the league?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

However frustrating it can be to watch I guess that it has been effective,

 

[Ogrezilla]

Would anyone else be surprised that our PP% is the 6th best in the league?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

However frustrating it can be to watch I guess that it has been effective,

I would need to go back and check, but I feel like its been effective in clumps. Like 2 or 3 PP goal games and then stretches with none.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I would need to go back and check, but I feel like its been effective in clumps. Like 2 or 3 PP goal games and then stretches with none.

It would have to be. We had a ten game stretch where we only scored once, and that was on a extremely rare 5 on 3 (so rare for the Pens that Crosby actually griped about it to the media). That is basically a third of the season so far coming up empty.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Would anyone else be surprised that our PP% is the 6th best in the league?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

However frustrating it can be to watch I guess that it has been effective,

I would need to go back and check, but I feel like its been effective in clumps. Like 2 or 3 PP goal games and then stretches with none.

Yeah, maybe it's because we watch it more closely, but it does seem like the Pens will go 0 for 4 a bunch of games, but bump up their overall percentage by having a couple of games of 3 for 5 or 2 for 4.

The Pens' powerplay is like a streaky goal scorer. Even though they score 30 goals in a season, it comes in weird hot/cold streaks where 15 of the 30 goals comes in a 20 game stretch, then they only score 15 over 62 games.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah, maybe it's because we watch it more closely, but it does seem like the Pens will go 0 for 4 a bunch of games, but bump up their overall percentage by having a couple of games of 3 for 5 or 2 for 4.

The Pens' powerplay is like a streaky goal scorer. Even though they score 30 goals in a season, it comes in weird hot/cold streaks where 15 of the 30 goals comes in a 20 game stretch, then they only score 15 over 62 games.

Which would be fine. Except that they make the same errors which are so frustrating to watch over and over. It is not a puck luck thing, but those long stretchs of ineptitude are earned 0 fors.

It should be no coincidence hopefully to the coaching staff that Letang being out resulted in one of those huge streaks of power play success. He has been the primary power play killer, and when he and Malkin are together on the point it is frightening to watch.

 

[Pancakes]

I still didn't like our PP that much last night even though it scored. For the most part it was extremely stationary. The two times it did score people were in motion for once but apart from those it was slow passing around the perimeter.

 

[billybudd]

Would anyone else be surprised that our PP% is the 6th best in the league?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

However frustrating it can be to watch I guess that it has been effective,

I don't think our PP is frustrating to watch. Sometimes it scores, sometimes it doesn't, but that's normal. It's certainly not like it was where it produced almost nothing for a half year under Johnston or where it was flunking the eye test bad under the late stages of Rierden/Yeo.

It's not dominating or anything like it was with 68 or 66, but it's not bad enough that I get angry at it.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't think our PP is frustrating to watch. Sometimes it scores, sometimes it doesn't, but that's normal. It's certainly not like it was where it produced almost nothing for a half year under Johnston or where it was flunking the eye test bad under the late stages of Rierden/Yeo.

It's not dominating or anything like it was with 68 or 66, but it's not bad enough that I get angry at it.

Not complaing about the results obviously. The turnovers at the point is my primary complaint. Letang out has reduced those dramatically.

It is the eye test thing. Like when Disco ran up those sparkling regular season records but we all could see the obvious issues.

 

[SEALBound]

Fehr played a solid game for a 13th forward certainly. Let's just hope that continues to be his role if we get healthy.

Fehr is playing like a guy that knows he's the 13th forward and will do anything to be the 12th forward. That desperation has it's benefits. We're just lucky we have a 13th forward like Fehr. Think back just two years ago who it would have been...

I suspect if DP can't develop in the Pens system, he won't do it anywhere else.

The Pens are proving to be quite apt at developing blueliners, and rehabbing trash heap guys like Daley, Nisky, Schultz and Cole.

DP just needs to play. No mystery there.

Most people have no idea how comically bad Schultz was in Edm. DP's game last night would have been a pretty good game for Schultz the last 1.5 seasons in Edm - no joke.

Nisky was a mess in Dallas as well.

They just got the right coaching in Pgh and playing time, which is crucial.

If the Pens don't want to be patient with DP, I'm not sure who in the system they believe will step in to replace Schultz/Daley next season. I don't see anyone who can do that yet...

I was cautiously optimistic when we got him. You just knew what Edmonton was doing to good young players. Perron, Schultz, Yakupov...and you knew they could be better other places.

Given who is on the market as a FA and how many teams will lose a top 4 dman, prices are going to be damn high. I think we need to do whatever it is we need to do to keep Schultz, especially with Daley being a UFA and Pouliot being so-so. Being an RFA, we wouldn't get him back if he was selected. Gah, I hate this. F exp drafts.

Back to his game right now though, kid is riding that confidence wave. He's much more sure of himself, he's more assertive, and he's picking excellent times to activate to get scoring chances. I love his game right now. Just love it. He is exactly what we need on the bottom pairing. I'd easily be comfortable with:

Dumo-Tang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-XXXXX

Next year if something didn't work out with Daley. Can't pay him what his market value would be on the open market but...him being an RFA sure helps. He seems to love it here too.

I think Pouliot will be okay. He's played what, 3 games now? Give him some time to get in a groove. He looks like he lacks confidence

Yup. There will be growing pains no doubt. He's holding the stick a little tight likely believing that this is make or break for him. As soon as he realizes that he will get the games, I think he will start to calm himself down.

 

[billybudd]

Not complaing about the results obviously. The turnovers at the point is my primary complaint. Letang out has reduced those dramatically.

It is the eye test thing. Like when Disco ran up those sparkling regular season records but we all could see the obvious issues.

It doesn't hurt that Schultz is completely paranoid about turning the puck over as the last guy back, and I mean that as a compliment.

 

[wgknestrick]

Fehr has stepped it up slightly recently. I agree. The good thing is that we have 2 forwards playing absolutely lights out in the AHL now that will allow us to sell/move some forward assets this year. It is scary to think we could still add 2 PPG (AHL) players to the bottom six.

I still don't see Fehr as "required" on this team and feel he's worth converting into a draft pick. OS is a better player currently IMO.

 

[MtlPenFan]

If there was a goalie stat that counts how many goals go in after hitting the goalie first, MM would lead the League by miles.

I'm fascinated by how seldom he gets beaten cleanly. Even the Grabner goal hit his shoulder before going in.

If he cleans that part of his game up where he stops allowing pucks to squeeze through him, look out.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sullivan felt his reasoning was sound, or he felt pressured to do it because JR traded for him... sort of like he felt pressure to play MAF in a pivotal moment during the playoffs.

I just didn't like it, but it worked out. The world goes on.

Like you said though, DP did nothing wrong and now his confidence is in the toilet. He has the talent to help this team offensively more than any blueliner, save Letang. So it's a real shame to see him scared to even handle the puck now.

He just looks weird to me. Barely recognize the ultra talented player I watched countless times and I think it all started with his unnecessary benching last spring.... he probably keeps thinking he ****ed up somehow and keeps trying to compensate and change his game and he needs the puck on his stick to make things happen... it's a huge catch 22.

I agree that the Pens didn't help Pouliot's confidence with the situation last year, but that's done now and it's a competitive league. At some point, he needs to step up. I hope the team is patient with him over the next few weeks, but he has some responsibility here too. He needs to be better.

 

[Shady Machine]

On one hand, I sort of agree with this. They need to make their money when they have the chance. On the other, there are a lot of people who take jobs that pay less because they would rather have a job they actually like.

Right lots of people do that. It's not as if Schultz won't still be rich no matter where he goes. He is also smart enough to know that the wrong choice could result in another Edmonton situation. If the Pens want to keep Schultz, they will make a competitive enough offer to get the job done IMO. He will get higher offers elsewhere (assuming he was a UFA), but it won't be astronomically different.

 

[KIRK]

I think everyone agrees here and it's only a matter of time until you are right. 72 and 71 just don't go together. They never have. Tonight was unique. It just... worked. I don't know why or how. It might have been Genos godlike game, as you said. If teams know those 2 don't want the puck, they will force the puck to one of them to carry. It will go bad. It will eventually be changed.

I know Rusty ended up having a good game, but I equally think 17 doesn't belong with 87. Geno/Rust and Sid/Hornqvist work.

Two added thoughts:

1. I don't think Geno had a godlike game. I thought he had a really good, bordering on great, game, but that wasn't Geno god mode last night.

2. With all the experimenting Sully is doing, here's a thought for you: What if The WTF Line wasn't a one off? What if HBK recaptures the magic? Suddenly, for all the places I was thinking you could look to add a 'game changing' winger, wouldn't it be interesting if the addition were to Sid's RW and you slid Rust to a line with Cullen for the playoffs? Not sure I want to do that to Rust, but if memory serves Kuhn-Cullen-Rust was quite the killer line (a 4th line in name only).

 

[Shady Machine]

Fehr has stepped it up slightly recently. I agree. The good thing is that we have 2 forwards playing absolutely lights out in the AHL now that will allow us to sell/move some forward assets this year. It is scary to think we could still add 2 PPG (AHL) players to the bottom six.

I still don't see Fehr as "required" on this team and feel he's worth converting into a draft pick. OS is a better player currently IMO.

I'm not sure how Fehr has stepped it up recently when he was a healthy scratch until last night

Oops, nevermind. I missed the game on Saturday and didn't know he played.

 

[KIRK]

What probably drives the coaching staff crazy is that he plays a bit too freely and doesn't have the talent to do it in the NHL. He gambles on his defensive angles (especially in the neutral zone), doesn't stop/start, and is careless when he's the last line of defense moving the puck up.

For how much structure is in the NHL game nowadays, as in every movement/pass/etc., he's a coaching nightmare. And players can get away with it if they are dynamic offensively, but he's not. He has a great outlet pass, but his offensive ability is pretty average at the NHL level. He's far from what many expected.

IMO, he needs like 2-4 more years of development and that's perfectly normal for young defenders. I just don't know if the Pens will be patient. They should.. seeing how Dumo and many others have succeeded with additional time, but I just feel the Pens will be impatient on this one.

edit: And you know what, if I'm a team who is young/upcoming, I would reach out to JR and let him develop. He could be a gem with the right development. I'm looking at a team like Detroit who would really like to have that in the system.

I said last night that DP is being moved for this year's Lovejoy.

 

[Shady Machine]

I said last night that DP is being moved for this year's Lovejoy.

As long as this year's Lovejoy is better than Lovejoy and a 2nd or something comes back with it, I'm fine with it.

 

[KIRK]

That was definitely Kunitz and Horny's best games of the year. I would not have seen that coming on a line together

 

[KIRK]

As long as this year's Lovejoy is better than Lovejoy and a 2nd or something comes back with it, I'm fine with it.

I didn't say you'd be happy with the deal.

 

[Mattpilf]

It's not that surprising that Hornqvist and Kunitz worked with Malkin.

Those two were on a tear with Sid when Geno was out and HBK was our second line.

Also one thing it can help Geno out more than even Sid is Geno loves carrying the puck through the neutral zone, and Kunitz and Hornqvist will let him to that all day.

Only thing I fear is some elite guys can shut down Geno enough that Kunitz and Hornqvist can't pick up the support.

Rust and Sheary were good on that aspect, so I wonder how long they'll keep this set up going. Balance is probably better for consistent success, but if it works it works and all the guys seem happy right now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Obviously loved the results but I sincerely hope the coach doesn't get any ideas about the feasibility of that second line. Though I'm sure he will, considering that seems like something everyone seems bound and determined to make work, despite literally years of bad results.

Still waiting for Pouliot to consistently show me something at the NHL level. And new to this year... the AHL level. I really want him to succeed but I guess I'm just not seeing much movement in his development. Confidence has to be low right now, though.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I was cautiously optimistic when we got him. You just knew what Edmonton was doing to good young players. Perron, Schultz, Yakupov...and you knew they could be better other places.

Given who is on the market as a FA and how many teams will lose a top 4 dman, prices are going to be damn high. I think we need to do whatever it is we need to do to keep Schultz, especially with Daley being a UFA and Pouliot being so-so. Being an RFA, we wouldn't get him back if he was selected. Gah, I hate this. F exp drafts.

Back to his game right now though, kid is riding that confidence wave. He's much more sure of himself, he's more assertive, and he's picking excellent times to activate to get scoring chances. I love his game right now. Just love it. He is exactly what we need on the bottom pairing. I'd easily be comfortable with:

Dumo-Tang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-XXXXX

Next year if something didn't work out with Daley. Can't pay him what his market value would be on the open market but...him being an RFA sure helps. He seems to love it here too.

Eakins and Nelson did Schultz no favors, but he was the one who chose Edm and the promise of big minutes - it wasn't like he was forced to go there. If he had stayed in Ana, I suspect with their development system, he would have followed a more natural development curve and not turned into "Jultz".

I was actually a big Schultz fan until last season, so I'm trying to get the bad taste he left in my mouth out and like him the way I did a couple of years ago.

If he stays consistent and then takes a fair deal to stay a Pen, that may swing me back to how I used to feel about him.

Yup. There will be growing pains no doubt. He's holding the stick a little tight likely believing that this is make or break for him. As soon as he realizes that he will get the games, I think he will start to calm himself down.

DP is in a bad spot, no matter what he does TBTH.

He can play really well the next few games, but then there is the early Jan break for a week, and by then Letang will hopefully be back along with Daley.

Maatta has been playing well and really impressing me, Cole is as steady as they come, Dumo is rounding back into form... you can't sit any of these guys for DP.

It's just a huge crap sandwich for him and he has to eat it.

Barring a long term injury, which I hope to hell doesn't happen because this six man unit is looking like one of the best in the league, DP won't get a real chance until next season.