Post-Game Talk: Pens 7, Rangers 2 - All Hail The WTF Line

[KIRK]

Obviously loved the results but I sincerely hope the coach doesn't get any ideas about the feasibility of that second line. Though I'm sure he will, considering that seems like something everyone seems bound and determined to make work, despite literally years of bad results.

Still waiting for Pouliot to consistently show me something at the NHL level. And new to this year... the AHL level. I really want him to succeed but I guess I'm just not seeing much movement in his development. Confidence has to be low right now, though.

Geno has consistently sucked with Hornqvist with any LW they've tried previously with them.

Kunitz has been an anchor on Geno at all times in the last 8 months. It's sort of worked with Kessel on RW but worked best with Rust on RW.

There was no reason to think Kunitz-Geno-Horny could work, especially against a speed team like the Rangers. They were going to be a mess offensively, and they were going to get chewed up defensively.

Offensively, I think it was about the pacing working and Geno trusting those guys. Geno hates to dump the puck or move it to space, because it often leads to a change of possession. With Horny and Kunitz, it didn't. And, more important, Geno trusted that it wouldn't. So, you got Geno possessing the puck but, when he'd get trapped, trusting that the dump or give and go was there and that he'd have a chance to touch it again.

Defensively, the only time the line had issues was when DP was behind them.

You know, it's funny. If you look at these last 14 months for Geno, it really has been a renaissance for him. People forget how good he was under Johnston. He was good when Sully got hired. Then he got hurt, but even with one arm and one anchor, he was pretty damn good in the playoffs. Now, after a slow start (not points so much as just not feeling it), I'd argue he's playing has well as he has at any time in the last 7 years and that these last 14 months have represented the most mature two way game you've seen from him since the first cup (I know, the KMN year, which you can't take away from him, but that was all about points and overwhelming teams during the regular season in true Bylsma form, not about playing the right way in all three zones, and it showed when it mattered).

 

[Shady Machine]

It was 1 game of success KIRK. I know you know that, but I would hold off on coming up with analysis on why it worked until we see a larger sample size. The logic behind putting them together makes some sense if you believe Kunitz doesn't suck now. I think he does, so I don't expect him to be of much use to Malkin-Hornqvist over a larger sample size.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You know, it's funny. If you look at these last 14 months for Geno, it really has been a renaissance for him. People forget how good he was under Johnston. He was good when Sully got hired. Then he got hurt, but even with one arm and one anchor, he was pretty damn good in the playoffs. Now, after a slow start (not points so much as just not feeling it), I'd argue he's playing has well as he has at any time in the last 7 years and that these last 14 months have represented the most mature two way game you've seen from him since the first cup (I know, the KMN year, which you can't take away from him, but that was all about points and overwhelming teams during the regular season in true Bylsma form, not about playing the right way in all three zones, and it showed when it mattered).

Not that I'm discounting the rest of your post. I think there are some points there. But I just can't agree that there is any future in that line. I also thought the Rangers looked tired/gassed most of the game. And, though maybe not god-mode, that Malkin was playing like he smelled blood in the water the whole night. So I'm not taking much away from it other than "off team/great Malkin." For now. Unfortunately, I'm sure we'll get a chance at another look.

Now... for the part I quoted -- damn I'm glad to be wrong. This is the best hockey I've seen Malkin play in a while, uneven start to the year aside. I guess it's difficult to deny that, so long as he's healthy, he is just too damned good to not find a way. Even if I fully believe that the years of injuries have taken a toll... it just doesn't seem to matter much. It's more a credit to his (often denigrated) intelligence as a player and will to succeed than anything, I think. He can adjust.

 

[KIRK]

It was 1 game of success KIRK. I know you know that, but I would hold off on coming up with analysis on why it worked until we see a larger sample size. The logic behind putting them together makes some sense if you believe Kunitz doesn't suck now. I think he does, so I don't expect him to be of much use to Malkin-Hornqvist over a larger sample size.

Thank you for knowing that I know that. That's why I called it WTF.

I noticed was that they forechecked as a unit well and that Kunitz being a step slow actually helped. And, what Sully said made sense. Only other thing I noticed is that Geno trusts those two, and that a Geno who trusts his linemates is more likely to succeed than a Geno who does not.

I also don't think we saw God mode Geno last night.

As I've been saying, I'd like to see how it looks Thursday and beyond, because if it did become a thing in spite of all logic, it opens up some interesting possibilities for the Pens.

Not that I'm discounting the rest of your post. I think there are some points there. But I just can't agree that there is any future in that line. I also thought the Rangers looked tired/gassed most of the game. And, though maybe not god-mode, that Malkin was playing like he smelled blood in the water the whole night. So I'm not taking much away from it other than "off team/great Malkin." For now. Unfortunately, I'm sure we'll get a chance at another look.

I can't fathom that line has a future either.

Now... for the part I quoted -- damn I'm glad to be wrong. This is the best hockey I've seen Malkin play in a while, uneven start to the year aside. I guess it's difficult to deny that, so long as he's healthy, he is just too damned good to not find a way. Even if I fully believe that the years of injuries have taken a toll... it just doesn't seem to matter much. It's more a credit to his (often denigrated) intelligence as a player and will to succeed than anything, I think. He can adjust.

The injuries have taken a toll, but I'd like to see what happens if he starts taking the conditioning a little more seriously this summer (he was going to do it last summer, but with the long season, needing rest for the elbow injury, and then right into the world cup, there really wasn't time).

BTW, sometimes I do wonder if Geno isn't the Rodney Dangerfield of hockey superstars.

 

[wgknestrick]

The WTF line working allows the HBK line and SCR lines, so don't question it.

 

[KIRK]

The WTF line working allows the HBK line and SCR lines, so don't question it.

It also gives JR the option of targeting a RW for Sid and Sheary, where you could slide Rust down onto a Kuhn/Wilson-Cullen-Rust line.

Doesn't mean I see WTF lasting long, but its continued success would be such a FU to many of us here, me among those first and foremost.

 

[Fordy]

The WTF line working allows the HBK line and SCR lines, so don't question it.

but it's not going to continue. i don't respect the rangers at all against the pens. zero fear from me ever playing them. they must just be dumb or something if they got outplayed by that line. unless that line plays well against the teams that are actually hard for us, which it won't, there's no use devoting any time to thinking about it. it will be a disaster against our hard matchups. no good team will allow kunitz to do anything against them, and no good team will fail to expose horny and malkin's incompatibility

 

[KIRK]

but it's not going to continue. i don't respect the rangers at all against the pens. zero fear from me ever playing them. they must just be dumb or something if they got outplayed by that line. unless that line plays well against the teams that are actually hard for us, which it won't, there's no use devoting any time to thinking about it. it will be a disaster against our hard matchups. no good team will allow kunitz to do anything against them, and no good team will fail to expose horny and malkin's incompatibility

Short of Fleury not wilting like a wallflower in the goaltending battle with Murray, would there be a bigger FU to all of us here than WTF enjoying sustained success?

 

[Fordy]

Short of Fleury not wilting like a wallflower in the goaltending battle with Murray, would there be a bigger FU to all of us here than WTF enjoying sustained success?

i'll honestly never believe or accept it. they would have to make it all the way to the playoffs playing every game at least as good or better as they did last night for me to think it might work. it'll never happen. it'll be thrown out in week, well, kunitz had an assist so two weeks

 

[KIRK]

i'll honestly never believe or accept it. they would have to make it all the way to the playoffs playing every game at least as good or better as they did last night for me to think it might work. it'll never happen. it'll be thrown out in week, well, kunitz had an assist so two weeks

Fine, then give me credit for one thing. That WTF acronym always will be appropriate.

 

[Fordy]

Fine, then give me credit for one thing. That WTF acronym always will be appropriate.

definitely

i should back up a bit, because i always thought that horny's game SHOULD in theory mesh with malkin's. it just never ever did. it's still possible. but kunitz will be a drag, for sure

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Malkin and Hornqvist could work long term. But since they are always not only on the wrong page but reading from an entirely different book in a different language... that LW would need to be more or less ideal, IMO.

It isn't that hard. They don't work well together because Hornqvist's offensive IQ/vision is near zilch. And Malkin more or less needs at least some of that from his wings. As much as I loathe Kunitz continuing to suck up primo roles on this team with little in the way of production... his problem isn't that his offensive IQ sucks. It's that he's consistently several steps behind and isn't much interested in doing the tough jobs, these days. Malkin's goal last night is evidence that Kunitz still understands the offensive zone... when he's actually in position. Hornqvist probably would have blindly whipped that puck at the net as soon as it hit his stick.

 

[KIRK]

Malkin and Hornqvist could work long term. But since they are always not only on the wrong page but reading from an entirely different book in a different language... that LW would need to be more or less ideal, IMO.

It isn't that hard. They don't work well together because Hornqvist's offensive IQ/vision is near zilch. And Malkin more or less needs at least some of that from his wings. As much as I loathe Kunitz continuing to suck up primo roles on this team with little in the way of production... his problem isn't that his offensive IQ sucks. It's that he's consistently several steps behind and isn't much interested in doing the tough jobs, these days. Malkin's goal last night is evidence that Kunitz still understands the offensive zone... when he's actually in position. Hornqvist probably would have blindly whipped that puck at the net as soon as it hit his stick.

So you're saying Kunitz is the straw that stirs the drink for Geno-Horny?

 

[ruunto71*]

Come on people KMH line worked, but Rangers looked absolutely trash and Hörnqvist actually decided to show up. (TRIGGER WARNING) Yes, Hörnqvist's effort has been **** poor for while now(TRIGGER WARNING). Also it's not coincidence that Kunitz decided to put some effort in when everybody started questioning his place on the team. We have seen this dance before

 

[Ogrezilla]

there are plenty of reasons to criticize Horny this year, but effort isn't one of them.

 

[KIRK]

Come on people KMH line worked, but Rangers looked absolutely trash and Hörnqvist actually decided to show up. (TRIGGER WARNING) Yes, Hörnqvist's effort has been **** poor for while now(TRIGGER WARNING). Also it's not coincidence that Kunitz decided to put some effort in when everybody started questioning his place on the team. We have seen this dance before

As I said in the other thread, we'll know tomorrow if you're right.

there are plenty of reasons to criticize Horny this year, but effort isn't one of them.

 

[ruunto71*]

As I said in the other thread, we'll know tomorrow if you're right.

That line can work little while, but when teams are starting to adjust by taking time and space away from Malkin in the neutral zone. KMH is dead in the water and Malkin will get frustrated

 

[KIRK]

That line can work little while, but when teams are starting to adjust by taking time and space away from Malkin in the neutral zone. KMH is dead in the water and Malkin will get frustrated

That's easier said than done. When Malkin trusts his linemates where if he dumps the puck or moves it to space and knows his linemates will get it and find a way to get it back to him, then it's pretty hard to suffocate him. Where he gets into trouble is when he doesn't trust them or the linemate wants to play with the puck too and he's reticent to share and thus tries to do too much himself. I'm not saying WTF won't flop. I'm just saying that I'm beginning to see that there could be a method to this madness. Or, put another way, if it enjoys some sustained success, I won't be 100% be surprised (just 95%).

 

[wgknestrick]

but it's not going to continue. i don't respect the rangers at all against the pens. zero fear from me ever playing them. they must just be dumb or something if they got outplayed by that line. unless that line plays well against the teams that are actually hard for us, which it won't, there's no use devoting any time to thinking about it. it will be a disaster against our hard matchups. no good team will allow kunitz to do anything against them, and no good team will fail to expose horny and malkin's incompatibility

It (WTF) was by far our most dominant line of the game (regarding scoring chance %s). I have a hard time believing that Sully doesn't extend the "test drive" another game. Everyone noticed them.

 

[wgknestrick]

So you're saying Kunitz is the straw that stirs the drink for Geno-Horny?

more like the toilet brush

 

[Mattpilf]

That's easier said than done. When Malkin trusts his linemates where if he dumps the puck or moves it to space and knows his linemates will get it and find a way to get it back to him, then it's pretty hard to suffocate him. Where he gets into trouble is when he doesn't trust them or the linemate wants to play with the puck too and he's reticent to share and thus tries to do too much himself. I'm not saying WTF won't flop. I'm just saying that I'm beginning to see that there could be a method to this madness. Or, put another way, if it enjoys some sustained success, I won't be 100% be surprised (just 95%).

The other issue will be finishing chances since neither winger is really even average at anything but greasy goals. Luckily a healthy defense gives us some options.

Still seems like almost everything has to run through him to get things done. Although I suppose if we have Schult, Daley, and Letang they can provide some support if Geno gets shut down through good defense.

If Geno has just a not great night I don't think it will look even half decent either.

 

[KIRK]

more like the toilet brush

I liked what crosbyfan wrote yesterday explaining why WTF worked. To paraphrase, Geno and Horny did their things while the Rangers were distracted looking at Kunitz and thinking WTF.

The other issue will be finishing chances since neither winger is really even average at anything but greasy goals. Luckily a healthy defense gives us some options.

Still seems like almost everything has to run through him to get things done. Although I suppose if we have Schult, Daley, and Letang they can provide some support if Geno gets shut down through good defense.

If Geno has just a not great night I don't think it will look even half decent either.

I don't disagree with that conclusion.

And, your comment about the mobile defensemen is spot on. Schultz's goal happened that way last night.

Look, I saw a level of potential from The WTF Line that I never anticipated. Doesn't mean I think it will last long or that there won't be multiple challenges. But, it showed last night that it's worth a longer look than the 1 game I had thought absolutely was 1 game too many.

 

[ColePens]

Time to move to the off day thread.