Post-Game Talk: Pens (6) sleep walk through blowout win of supposed NHL team (1)

[CanadianPensFan1]

Kessel has had his situation completely changed, I'm not going to write him off because he had a rough first 40 or so games with the Pens. Just like I didn't write off Gonchar in 2006.

To be fair, calling it 40 or so games is a bit disingenuous. He's played 65 .. that's a lot closer to 70 than it is to 40.

I'm sort of in the middle. I'm not ready to write him off just yet but the "transition" excuse is wearing a bit thin.

You are correct. He is a person with emotions. People take different lengths of time to adjust to situations. But, he IS also one of the premier/elite wingers in the game. How long does it take to get your act together? Time will tell.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

This is true. We really need to be rid of Kunitz and get a legit LW that will compliment both Sid and Geno.

To me, Hagelin-Sid-Horny makes a lot of sense. Finding a compliment to Geno-Phil should be top priority. Not sure if that's Hagelin or not yet over the long term.

Imo, Sid's line needs a bit more speed than "muck n grind." Geno's line needs a little less speed and more muck n grind.

Sid loves to fly through the neutral zone. The line needs speed to keep up and a bit of Horns + X to win a few battles. But mostly, get to the net. I think Hags could be that guy.

Geno likes to zig zag and undress players a bit more. So keeping up with him, speedwise, is a bit easier if he is weaving through the zone. But this is where the muck n grind comes in. I feel that Geno's line (especially with Phil) would benefit from someone who is really good at board battles. Someone who can make a good pass to the other two who are open.

I mean sure, ideally you want speed and toughness and skill on all lines but the reality is, its tough to do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To be fair, calling it 40 or so games is a bit disingenuous. He's played 65 .. that's a lot closer to 70 than it is to 40.

He's been playing at like a 30 goal, 65 point pace in his last 30 or so games. He hasn't been struggling all season, just roughly the first half. I expect him to be around 25-30 goals and 60-70 points, so I'm not upset with his production since the start of 2016.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yes and no. We need that production. We have a lot of money tied up in large assets that hampers our ability to bring in quality depth at all positions. We have holes. We need the top paid assets to produce at a level that fills those holes.

We can't have a 6.8mil glider. We need a 40g, 75-80pt wing out of Kessel. Playing with Malkin or Crosby, not unreasonable. We need that. We can't fill every hole. Bringing him in was a method of helping close other gaps.

I think that's asking a lot even for a guy getting paid that much, but hey, what do I know?

This is true. We really need to be rid of Kunitz and get a legit LW that will compliment both Sid and Geno.

To me, Hagelin-Sid-Horny makes a lot of sense. Finding a compliment to Geno-Phil should be top priority. Not sure if that's Hagelin or not yet over the long term.

I would like to see Hags-Sid-Horny, too. I think Hagelin does a good job getting the puck to his linemates with speed and he can use his speed to forecheck when Horny dumps the puck in all the time. Both of those things should help Sid tremendously.

I kind of like having the killer speed on both wings with Hags-Kessel, but I think better than that would be to have a guy that has enough skill to carry the puck in more often than not. Malkin can, but doesn't love to forecheck and Kessel is not very good at it. My solution would be BB. Possibly Rust, but I think BB is a little bit more of a sure thing when it comes to converting possession into goals (when healthy of course).

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

He's been playing at like a 30 goal, 65 point pace in his last 30 or so games. He hasn't been struggling all season, just roughly the first half. I expect him to be around 25-30 goals and 60-70 points, so I'm not upset with his production since the start of 2016.

I agree entirely. But the season is 82 games .. not the last 30.

I understand what you are getting at. I really do. But he has to be able to play well for the entire season (and even more so .. the playoffs).

Hypothetical here: Phil stays on his current pace for the remainder of the season and playoffs. Next season the same thing happens. First 40 games are underwhelming but hey, the last half was good .. amirite?

Im just saying. He is an elite player being paid an elite player salary. He has to be able to play well consistently and not take half a year off. Everyone has bad games and bad stretches. 40 games is a pretty long "stretch."

Personally? I hope he does it. When he's on, he can take over a game.

 

[sf expat71]

I agree entirely. But the season is 82 games .. not the last 30.

I understand what you are getting at. I really do. But he has to be able to play well for the entire season (and even more so .. the playoffs).

Hypothetical here: Phil stays on his current pace for the remainder of the season and playoffs. Next season the same thing happens. First 40 games are underwhelming but hey, the last half was good .. amirite?

Im just saying. He is an elite player being paid an elite player salary. He has to be able to play well consistently and not take half a year off. Everyone has bad games and bad stretches. 40 games is a pretty long "stretch."

Personally? I hope he does it. When he's on, he can take over a game.

But his struggles happened in the first 40 games, not a random set of 40 games. Hence many are bringing up the possibility of a needed adjustment period. So yeah, if he repeats those 40 games again next season, then the adjustment argument loses some validity and I feel there can be genuine concern. But if you buy that players sometimes need time to adapt to new teams, then we should expect him to produce at a rate more similar to the last 25 games because the first 40 games would be the anomaly.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

But his struggles happened in the first 40 games, not a random set of 40 games. Hence many are bringing up the possibility of a needed adjustment period. So yeah, if he repeats those 40 games again next season, then the adjustment argument loses some validity and I feel there can be genuine concern. But if you buy that players sometimes need time to adapt to new teams, then we should expect him to produce at a rate more similar to the last 25 games because the first 40 games would be the anomaly.

Absolutely.

Like I said, I hope he does it. He no doubt has the skill to do it.

Despite my apathy for the Pens this season, I want them to succeed.

 

[pistolpete11]

But his struggles happened in the first 40 games, not a random set of 40 games. Hence many are bringing up the possibility of a needed adjustment period. So yeah, if he repeats those 40 games again next season, then the adjustment argument loses some validity and I feel there can be genuine concern. But if you buy that players sometimes need time to adapt to new teams, then we should expect him to produce at a rate more similar to the last 25 games because the first 40 games would be the anomaly.

I think more important than the adjustment factor was the Johnston factor. There wasn't 1 player playing up to their career averages except for maybe like BB.

 

[sf expat71]

I think more important than the adjustment factor was the Johnston factor. There wasn't 1 player playing up to their career averages except for maybe like BB.

That is also a good point. Either way, nothing suggests Kessel will repeat his first 40 games performance.