Post-Game Talk: Pens 6 Sabres 1 | Secondary Sid's Big Night

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Heatley would drive the net when there was no resistance. But so would Neal. If anything, he works harder now that he's slow and awful than he did when he was in the cup finals. In addition, his depreciation has been most-frequently explained by unwillingness to do offseason training, not back problems or whatever.

I could count on one hand the times I ever saw Neal drive the net with the puck. Heatley had his shortcomings, but the guy wasn't afraid to take the puck to the net or stand in front to tip shots or bang in rebounds.

Franzen's had a lot of injuries, but he was jekyll and hyde before that when it came to work and hustle (I saw him in a SEL game years ago on the international channel and was floored that the same guy made the NHL years later). It's speculated in Detroit that this is due to psychological problems, not injuries. Whatever the cause, it leads to the sort of half-assing that you see from Neal, though it's not an every game thing. Babcock's on his case a lot. If Brainless had been on Neal like Babcock is with Franzen, would he have improved? It's at least possible.

Until his injuries really derailed his career, Franzen played hard in just about every game I ever saw in the NHL, and that was quite a few. He was also money in the playoffs and found another gear, unlike Neal.

OV and Pacioretty are smack in the middle of the players you mentioned and the players I mentioned. No, they're not as lazy as Neal (though OV's boardwork is every bit as poor...if he doesn't get to the puck first or free it up with a bodycheck, he all but quits on the play), but they're a far cry from the likes of Stamkos or Perry when it comes to battle-level.

I'm not going to defend AO as some great two way threat, but he most certainly works much harder than Neal in the attacking zone. With Patches, we obviously aren't going to agree. He's pretty much nothing like Neal.

The only guys as I said who are like Neal, are guys that can't seem to play to an acceptable level that makes their coaches and even teammates in Semin's case, happy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Which is all I needed to prove. Thank you, come again.

So you basically proved Neal was a lazy stat padder and just slapped yourself on the back for it.

Can't say I've laughed this hard at someone being proud of themselves for thinking they won a debate.

You did more to help me show how lazy Neal was than any other Neal defender.

Thx for the entertainment, I'll give you credit for that.

 

[billybudd]

Which is completely incorrect. Also a penalty can be lazy, for example hooking a guy instead of skating with him. Selfish would be slashing a guy in retaliation. They are too different things.

Jargon's jargon. It doesn't live by the dictionary definition. It's not wrong to call Brian Gibbons a "small forward" even though that term doesn't mean the exact thing I'd be referring to when it comes to basketball.

 

[Fordy]

i would love it if "thank you come again" became a thing here. everyone loves sarcasm

like:

kunitz is an all-star caliber player idiot. look at his pace this season. thank you come again

 

[MtlPenFan]

Completely besides the point, unless you saying he didn't try as hard when he wasn't scoring.

Not being effective and being a passive player isn't the same as laziness. Laziness is literally not doing things because it too hard and requires too much effort. Not because you play a selfish style to rack up stats.

That's precisely what I'm saying.

In the end, who cares WHY he wouldn't play the right way. Aside from a nagging injury being the root cause, I could care less if a guy is lazy, old, or if a certain type of style simply isn't in his DNA.

All I know is when James Neal wasn't scoring, he was next to invisible, and I've always been weary of players who rack up stats but when the going gets tough, do nothing to contribute to OTHERS being better.

 

[cygnus47]

Our 5 on 5 F/A is now tops in the league at 1.88. We have played Buffalo twice already, which has contributed a LOT of that, but still, that is a category we failed to dominate under Bylsma and I think a better sign of a real contender than the other usual suspects.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

Malkin passed the puck and Neal shot it on net, and that was what that line was all about.
I miss Neal's shot, but he he was definitely lazy in some sense.

I don't have any memories of an amazing forecheck/effort to get the puck back.

 

[Michael8771*]

I would have liked to see Neal play under MJ. IMO he was one of the guys who was hurt the worst by DB allowing him to do whatever he wanted.

I would as well. And I've always believed that DB somewhat mitigated our stars ability to create and carry the play due to his system which largely caters to the grinders and the lesser lights. We were not chiefly a puck possession team. And to me that along with his inability to make in game adjustments were his greatest flaws.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Even if you could stamp out the lazy play, you're not going to turn him into the legit net front presence or right handed shot that Hornqvist is, and that this team needed. Being willing to drive the net on occasion and having the cajones to camp out there and get guys to give up on cross-checking you because the only outcome is the occasional penalty are different things. The last comment is not directed at your Ragamuffin, but in general in terms of Neal and Hornqvist's games.

True, but Horny isn't the only RHS or net front guy in the league, and there are 4 top 6 wingers spots to fill.

I'd have rather JR hold off on making the move till after he explored all his options in FA (Kule, Vrbata) and other trades (Tang, Martin). I'm about 99% sure NSH would have made the same deal later in the summer.

 

[radapex]

True, but Horny isn't the only RHS or net front guy in the league, and there are 4 top 6 wingers spots to fill.

I'd have rather JR hold off on making the move till after he explored all his options in FA (Kule, Vrbata) and other trades (Tang, Martin). I'm about 99% sure NSH would have made the same deal later in the summer.

Kulemin signed with the Islanders at $4.188M per year and reportedly turned down a similar offer because he wanted to play with Grabovski. Vrbata signed with the Canucks at $5.000M per year. So how do you propose those signings work within the confines of the cap? The Ehrhoff signing was announced less than 30 minutes into free agency, so it's not like they had that deal sitting on the back-burner.

For that matter, I'd MUCH rather have Hornqvist @ $4.25M than Kulemin at his cap hit. Maybe even more than Vrbata at his, though I am a Vrbata fan.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Once again, Richards wasn't injured until the last few games of Neal's slump before he was moved. So quite simply, stop making up stats and progressions that don't exist.

I'm going to put this is big letters so it can't be missed or misinterpreted:

NEAL WAS ON PACE FOR 30 GOALS IN DALLAS INCLUDING THE SLUMP.

And yep, Neal has actually regressed since he was in Dallas. He didn't score 40 there, but he worked a lot harder than he did in a Pens jersey.

Odd that he's still scoring and earning plaudits now in Nashville.

As for the way Neal played here, you may be interested/surprised/indifferent to learn that Bylsma analyzed the data of where Neal scored most of his goals from, and made it Neal's priority to go to those spots to shoot. There was an article to that effect posted here within the last month or two.

I already went over this and showed you his stats outside of the Ott series. Not doing it again.

You don't win SCs with lazy players like Neal.

Why doesn't the Ottawa series count?

The fact is that Neal's playoff production remained consistent whenever he had a high-end playmaker. You can make any number of scorers look bad by cherry picking series.

Your work in the MAF thread is nothing to brag about. I'll just leave it at that.

I could give a ****. If I think it's a stupid decision, I'm going to call it out as such and explain why.

Kulemin and Hemsky have been acused of being inconsistent on the score sheet. They have never been acused of being lazy malcontents who were locker room problems by the people who actually watched them play.

How many 40 goal scorers on sweetheart deals have been moved from a contender in the last decade?

Once you come to terms with why this extremely rare occurence happened to Neal, the truth shall set you free.

We were talking about the relevance of how players fared on other teams, not comparing Kulemin and Hemsky's demeanors to Neal's.

Convenient though, how you want to criticize Neal for being a leech on Malkin, then turn around and say "how [Hemsky's] playing without being centered by the two best pivots in the world is inconsequential to me."

Shero just took three fwds with his first three picks the year before, including using a first on BB. It wasn't until after the Harrington draft that he went off the deep end with blueliners.

This was the blueline depth chart:

Orpik - Letang
Martin - Michalek
Engelland - Niskanen
Despres - Lovejoy
Strait
Morrow
Bortuzzo
Samuelsson

The top 4 and bottom pair depth looked set for a half-decade with tons of options in the pipeline, and Bennett was our only legit scoring wing prospect.

I did look back and no, it wasn't even anything close to what you did in the MAF thread.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=994123&page=3

Show me where I had a melt down.

Again, your work in the MAF thread is over the top silliness and you follow that up with the melodramatics about Hynes comment.

It's just funny watching you go all drama queen.

Wasn't that thread, and thinking back the Johnson thing was more during call-ups. You were absolutely worked up about guys like Conner getting the call over Johnson, and we had at it.

Feel free to quote the part of the Fleury thread that qualifies as melodramatic. You seem quite sure that I was on the verge of tears through the whole thing.

We both know that's a straight up lie. I'd say I lost a little respect for you after reading that, but as you told Ogre you don't care about gettin no respects.

We do?

I believe something significant should be done, but I'm not Shero.

He is a conservative and patient GM, much like CP was.

Can you really see him moving Martin and Orpik, then going after Suter... Or moving Staal and chasing Parise, etc like people are suggesting?

I would be surprised if he even moves Martin. I think he will look at Martin's play last season and previously... write this off as a bad year... Then give him until the deadline next year at least.

Orpik may be playing through an injury as well and he will get the benefit of the doubt either way...

I just don't see Shero as a GM who will make drastic changes.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1166563&highlight=jiggyfly+martin&page=22

That's not your opinion. That's you laying out what you think Shero will do, in contrast to the significant move you think should be made.

He's a good coach if you don't have championship aspirations.

He's a good coach. Good coaches get fired all the time. Babcock, Sutter, Quenneville, Hitchcock, you name it.

DB will be back in the league in short order. Hopefully he'll have learned from his mistakes.

 

[#66]

Not enough is being made of Sid getting 5 points in 15:52 of ice time. Imagine if he played in an era when an offensive star was allowed to be a star.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm going to put this is big letters so it can't be missed or misinterpreted:

NEAL WAS ON PACE FOR 30 GOALS IN DALLAS INCLUDING THE SLUMP.

No, he wasn't. You decided that since he was traded that his true numbers that season don't count, and they do.

"On pace for" means nothing agt real numbers. And I don't have to put that in big numbers, because it's the truth.

Odd that he's still scoring and earning plaudits now in Nashville

Odd that he was traded. Or maybe not, for those paying attention.

As for the way Neal played here, you may be interested/surprised/indifferent to learn that Bylsma analyzed the data of where Neal scored most of his goals from, and made it Neal's priority to go to those spots to shoot. There was an article to that effect posted here within the last month or two.

Another person trying to blame DB?

So now DB told Neal to lose board battles and to backcheck when he felt like it?

Why doesn't the Ottawa series count?

The fact is that Neal's playoff production remained consistent whenever he had a high-end playmaker. You can make any number of scorers look bad by cherry picking series.

Or by making qualifiers that he has someone doing all of the work for him, right DD?

I could give a ****. If I think it's a stupid decision, I'm going to call it out as such and explain why.

It's obvious you could give a **** with all of those tears you have flowing in that thread.

We were talking about the relevance of how players fared on other teams, not comparing Kulemin and Hemsky's demeanors to Neal's.

We weren't talking about anything. You brought up Hemsky as some kind of dig that was suppose to get under my skin. I found it curious since I have so much ammo to sling back, but you made your choice and now I get to have a little fun with you and your tears.

Convenient though, how you want to criticize Neal for being a leech on Malkin, then turn around and say "how [Hemsky's] playing without being centered by the two best pivots in the world is inconsequential to me."

I said both Hemsky and Kulemin, try to keep things accurate.

And the way Hemsky and Kulemin IMHO would play with Malkin (unselfish and creating space) as compared to Neal (lazy leech), leaves nothing to be convinient about.

This was the blueline depth chart:

Orpik - Letang
Martin - Michalek
Engelland - Niskanen
Despres - Lovejoy
Strait
Morrow
Bortuzzo
Samuelsson

The top 4 and bottom pair depth looked set for a half-decade with tons of options in the pipeline, and Bennett was our only legit scoring wing prospect.

That kind of depth didn't stop me from wanting Trouba or wanting to whine about Harrington, eventhough I had been clamoring about their inability to draft and develop fwds in this org long before you started posting around here.

Wasn't that thread, and thinking back the Johnson thing was more during call-ups. You were absolutely worked up about guys like Conner getting the call over Johnson, and we had at it.

Feel free to quote the part of the Fleury thread that qualifies as melodramatic. You seem quite sure that I was on the verge of tears through the whole thing.

Oh it wasn't that thread now. Ok then DD.

Your posts are getting to be like a reality series with all of the drama lately dating back to the summer.

Wait, I know, you ain't care bout no respect. That doesn't stop me from laughing about it though.

We do?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1166563&highlight=jiggyfly+martin&page=22

That's not your opinion. That's you laying out what you think Shero will do, in contrast to the significant move you think should be made.

Right, we never argued about Martin bouncing back and you never called him a "pansy".

We'll pretend I never supported him and you never wanted him gone.

He's a good coach. Good coaches get fired all the time. Babcock, Sutter, Quenneville, Hitchcock, you name it.

DB will be back in the league in short order. Hopefully he'll have learned from his mistakes.

None of them flamed out five years in a row with the talent DB had. It was painfully obvious last summer and you still didn't see it.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well i haven't seen a Bennett recall tweet.
Pens about to take thier game day skate in NY.
Poor Geno.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, he wasn't. You decided that since he was traded that his true numbers that season don't count, and they do.

"On pace for" means nothing agt real numbers. And I don't have to put that in big numbers, because it's the truth.

Yes, he was. Look at my statement and do the math.

Odd that he was traded. Or maybe not, for those paying attention.

Hornqvist got traded too.

Another person trying to blame DB?

So now DB told Neal to lose board battles and to backcheck when he felt like it?

I didn't have a problem with Neal on those fronts. You were criticizing how Neal was floating, and I just told you why he was looking for holes in coverage like he did rather than spend his time in the offensive zone battling along the boards.

Or by making qualifiers that he has someone doing all of the work for him, right DD?

Again, nobody has ever doubted that Neal needed a high-end playmaker to thrive. And again, see the above comment.

It's obvious you could give a **** with all of those tears you have flowing in that thread.

I could give a **** what you think. I clearly give a **** about dumb decisions the team makes.

We weren't talking about anything. You brought up Hemsky as some kind of dig that was suppose to get under my skin. I found it curious since I have so much ammo to sling back, but you made your choice and now I get to have a little fun with you and your tears.

You've got nothing but faux stoicism and a bad attitude.

Still waiting on quotes of those tearful posts of mine from the Fleury thread.

I said both Hemsky and Kulemin, try to keep things accurate.

And the way Hemsky and Kulemin IMHO would play with Malkin (unselfish and creating space) as compared to Neal (lazy leech), leaves nothing to be convinient about.

And Hemsky was the ironic part, because you go to great lengths to talk about how Neal leeched off of Malkin, and then wax about how you don't care how Hemsky plays without the two best pivots in the world.

You're plainly talking out of both sides of your mouth because you hate one player and like the other.

That kind of depth didn't stop me from wanting Trouba or wanting to whine about Harrington, eventhough I had been clamoring about their inability to draft and develop fwds in this org long before you started posting around here.

So you didn't make a valid complaint about a pick representative of an organizational philosophy that ended up being bad for the team. Want a cookie?

Oh it wasn't that thread now. Ok then DD.

Your posts are getting to be like a reality series with all of the drama lately dating back to the summer.

Wait, I know, you ain't care bout no respect. That doesn't stop me from laughing about it though.

I'm less inclined to go searching through threads for hours on end to find something I know happened than you. If you want to act like you didn't get worked up over guys like Conner getting called up over Johnson, be my guest.

Right, we never argued about Martin bouncing back and you never called him a "pansy".

We'll pretend I never supported him and you never wanted him gone.

Of course I called him a pansy, and we argued about the potential for a bounce back. But as the post clearly shows, you still wanted Martin gone like everyone else. Just like I said.

None of them flamed out five years in a row with the talent DB had. It was painfully obvious last summer and you still didn't see it.

Babcock has flamed out for just as many years as DB, with no shortage of talent and without being hamstrung by MAF.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Babcock's teams have lacked talent and depth for awhile now.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yes, he was. Look at my statement and do the math.

So if we use your made up logic, Lemieux should have broken Gretzky's season point mark in '93. He was "on pace" to break the record before he was diagnosed with cancer.

There are things called hard facts, like Neal has never scored 30 goals without Malkin.

Then made up projections that ignore slumps and injuries.

Hornqvist got traded too.

And when he was, nothing but good things were said about him.

I didn't have a problem with Neal on those fronts. You were criticizing how Neal was floating, and I just told you why he was looking for holes in coverage like he did rather than spend his time in the offensive zone battling along the boards.

Why fight for the puck when Malkin will do it for you? Excellent philosophy.

Again, nobody has ever doubted that Neal needed a high-end playmaker to thrive. And again, see the above comment.

The Pens don't need passengers and lazy players who care about padding their stats.

I could give a **** what you think. I clearly give a **** about dumb decisions the team makes.

I care about reading a thread about a big signing without seeing page after page littered with the digital diarrhea coming from your keyboard and having to scroll through pages of it.

You've got nothing but faux stoicism and a bad attitude.

Still waiting on quotes of those tearful posts of mine from the Fleury thread.

I'm not the one who has spent the last 5+ months filling this forum with buckets of tears. That would be you precious.

Like I said, relax. You are like a scorned lover... you are acting just like Rob Rossi. You can't even read a motivational quote about BB without going Dawson's Creek.

And Hemsky was the ironic part, because you go to great lengths to talk about how Neal leeched off of Malkin, and then wax about how you don't care how Hemsky plays without the two best pivots in the world.

You're plainly talking out of both sides of your mouth because you hate one player and like the other.

Reading comprehension goes a long way DD. As I clearly explained, Hemsky plays hard along the boards and would create space for Malkin with his skating/hands. Neal leeches and doesn't create space for Malkin or retrieve pucks for him either.

It really isn't that complicated to understand.

So you didn't make a valid complaint about a pick representative of an organizational philosophy that ended up being bad for the team. Want a cookie?

I prefer to let prospects develop before I get upset or not. Want a tissue?

I'm less inclined to go searching through threads for hours on end to find something I know happened than you. If you want to act like you didn't get worked up over guys like Conner getting called up over Johnson, be my guest.

I never got worked up over it. That is just hyperbole you want to serve up to make your flow of tears seem somehow justified.

Of course I called him a pansy, and we argued about the potential for a bounce back. But as the post clearly shows, you still wanted Martin gone like everyone else. Just like I said.

There is nothing in that post that suggests I wanted him gone, because I never did.

Now I do, yes. Different situation, however.

Babcock has flamed out for just as many years as DB, with no shortage of talent and without being hamstrung by MAF.

Now we are going to compare Babcock to DB? You backed DB foolishly. Now wear it, or don't.

Either way, it's a small matter.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Kulemin signed with the Islanders at $4.188M per year and reportedly turned down a similar offer because he wanted to play with Grabovski. Vrbata signed with the Canucks at $5.000M per year. So how do you propose those signings work within the confines of the cap? The Ehrhoff signing was announced less than 30 minutes into free agency, so it's not like they had that deal sitting on the back-burner.

For that matter, I'd MUCH rather have Hornqvist @ $4.25M than Kulemin at his cap hit. Maybe even more than Vrbata at his, though I am a Vrbata fan.

Move Scuds/Duper/Adams ect. for cap space. Someone would take these guys.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So if we use your made up logic, Lemieux should have broken Gretzky's season point mark in '93. He was "on pace" to break the record before he was diagnosed with cancer.

There are things called hard facts, like Neal has never scored 30 goals without Malkin.

Then made up projections that ignore slumps and injuries.

I never called Neal a 30 goal scorer. I said it's goofy to classify him as a 25 goal scorer because he was on pace for 30 when he was dealt here and played in completely different circumstances, namely playing with a 4th line center feeding him pucks.

You ignore context. I try to use it.

And when he was, nothing but good things were said about him.

And? You implied that simply because Neal was traded, he was fatally flawed.

Why fight for the puck when Malkin will do it for you? Excellent philosophy.

The philosophy was for the sniper to prioritize spots where he scored most of his goals, and the directive came from the coach.

I care about reading a thread about a big signing without seeing page after page littered with the digital diarrhea coming from your keyboard and having to scroll through pages of it.

There's a real simple solution to that that'll save you a lot of time and hand-wringing. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I'm not the one who has spent the last 5+ months filling this forum with buckets of tears. That would be you precious.

Like I said, relax. You are like a scorned lover... you are acting just like Rob Rossi. You can't even read a motivational quote about BB without going Dawson's Creek.

Still waiting. All those plentiful tears in the Fleury thread, yet so hard to find a single example.

Reading comprehension goes a long way DD. As I clearly explained, Hemsky plays hard along the boards and would create space for Malkin with his skating/hands. Neal leeches and doesn't create space for Malkin or retrieve pucks for him either.

It really isn't that complicated to understand.

You rake Neal over the coals for being a leech here, yet he's thriving in Nashville without any superstar to leech from. You pump Hemsky's tires as a guy who works hard and creates, but he can't do a damn thing in Dallas without an elite center.

Yeah, that is hard to understand.

I prefer to let prospects develop before I get upset or not. Want a tissue?

I prefer to criticize a pick when the organizational philosophy looks like it'll cause trouble down the road, and does, regardless of how the pick turns out.

I never got worked up over it. That is just hyperbole you want to serve up to make your flow of tears seem somehow justified.

Oh right, that flow of tears from the Fleury thread. Where are those quotes by the way? I guess you forgot.

There is nothing in that post that suggests I wanted him gone, because I never did.

Now I do, yes. Different situation, however.

Now we are going to compare Babcock to DB? You backed DB foolishly. Now wear it, or don't.

Either way, it's a small matter.

In the context of good coaches who have gotten fired and flamed out for years at a time, yes, he makes a great example, because he's the best coach.

Where am I denying that I backed DB?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I never called Neal a 30 goal scorer. I said it's goofy to classify him as a 25 goal scorer because he was on pace for 30 when he was dealt here and played in completely different circumstances, namely playing with a 4th line center feeding him pucks.

You ignore context. I try to use it.

No, I used facts, you used projections.

He avg 24 goals a season in Dallas. Never scored 30.

You just assume he would have gotten out of his slump in Dallas and scored 30. I don't assume that. I used the real facts and made a factual statement.

For some reason, you have it in your head that your projections hold more weight than the real numbers. They don't, sorry.

And? You implied that simply because Neal was traded, he was fatally flawed.

JR alluded to that being part of the reason he was moved. With what JR said, what I saw on the ice, and what I heard from people I have never been given a reason not to trust their word, Neal was a problem.

That's why he is gone. Deal with or ignore it. Either way, he isn't a Pen anymore and I'm happy about that, until I have to read a PGT that has nothing to do with him, having people pine for the guy again.

The philosophy was for the sniper to prioritize spots where he scored most of his goals, and the directive came from the coach.

I've played and studied the roots of this game since I was a kid, and not once did I ever hear of a coach telling his players they should not win 1-1 board battles, or back check when they felt like it.

Putting this on DB is simple nonsense, as I told the other poster.

There's a real simple solution to that that'll save you a lot of time and hand-wringing. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I don't use the ignore function. Never have, never will. The quotes function makes it useless, even if I chose that path.

Of course there is the solution where you get back to being a reasonable poster again and stop whining so often.

That could work to.

Still waiting. All those plentiful tears in the Fleury thread, yet so hard to find a single example.

I guess you didn't go off the handle and tell Ogre you don't care about being respected when he challenged the nonsense you were spewing?

Deep down inside you know I'm right. You have never constantly filled the forum with tears like you have been doing since the summer.

Only you know the answer as to why you are acting like Rossi lately.

You rake Neal over the coals for being a leech here, yet he's thriving in Nashville without any superstar to leech from. You pump Hemsky's tires as a guy who works hard and creates, but he can't do a damn thing in Dallas without an elite center.

Yeah, that is hard to understand.

I don't care what Neal does in Nashville. I've said that to you how many times? I care that he was lazy and a complete leech in Pgh. That's what matters.

Just as I care what Hemsky would do in Pgh.

You also are avoiding the fact you wanted Kulemin and he has only scored one goal.

Seems hypocritical to try and call someone out for wanting a guy who isn't being productive, when the guy you wanted isn't productive either.

Small matter though. How they would have played in Pgh is all I care about.

I prefer to criticize a pick when the organizational philosophy looks like it'll cause trouble down the road, and does, regardless of how the pick turns out.

It's noble and becoming work you are doing.

Tell me how much you like Harrington, again.

Oh right, that flow of tears from the Fleury thread. Where are those quotes by the way? I guess you forgot.

I addressed it for what, the third time?

In the context of good coaches who have gotten fired and flamed out for years at a time, yes, he makes a great example, because he's the best coach.

Where am I denying that I backed DB?

Curious that Det wants to extend Babcock and DB was fired then, eh?