Post-Game Talk: Pens 6 - Oil 5

[Drivesaitl]

^Isn't it fair to say thought that Talbot became more in his net as the game progressed and for instance in view of the first Crosby side deflection and another couple of brilliant pad stops he made to stop the game from getting out of reach?

The Oilers in front of him were not adequately covering passing seems or picking up open men (I mean lets just let Crosby wide open, uncovered, for an extended period on a PP, what bad thing could possibly occur...) So Talbot is confronted with the need to be close to cage.

Next, all goalies as you know are dealing with different modified pads and theres adaptation to that. Goalies are reporting different bounce, movement, shots stinging, bruises, etc. This is not the pads Talbot would be accustomed to, in fairness.

Finally, its easy for any of us to sit on the couch shoving chips in our face saying Talbot was crap playing hockeys version of the Harlem Globetrotters. But what does it actually feel like? Glenn Hall would have thrown up before, during, and after this game..

 

[Spawn]

I think it’s fair to say that talbot could have been better on a couple goals last night.

It’s also more than fair to say that this team can’t defend. And hasn’t been able to defend for over a year now.

Doesn’t matter who is in net if your defense can’t handle an NHL group of forwards attacking.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Next, its a bit funny that lots of people wanted Koskinen in for this game. I mean c'mon, I know hes gotta play, and Talbot again is being overplayed but its the Pens. The reality is you don't want to shellshock koskinen into arguably the hardest start of the year and have him do that completely cold. That's not even fair to him.

The Koskinen starts will occur when the schedule normalizes and gets easier. Or when theres a new coach because right now Mclellan is playing his strong suits as long as he can.

 

[bone]

Yeah I took another look at it and my take was basically... from how he played it (so tight to his post) it was going to be very difficult to control that rebound... it was awkward and low far side and he couldn't really control his butterfly flare... but on second view, he could have been out further, away from the post, it would have given him better rebound options.

The thing is, a far side shot off the pad... that's EXACTLY where your coaches tell you to put it for a "pass off the pads" and with good reason. If he doesn't deaden it entirely (better chance if he was square, but still difficult) or knife it to the netting (not possible on all shots), then it is coming out for a rebound. It is impossible, for example, for him to make the save and direct it to the opposite corner, the angles just don't work... you can't just "feather" it past the far post, you gotta get enough to know you've stopped it from, you know, going in. That means dead, netting or slot are the only options.

I'll leave you one more thought: for my level of play, I'm considered to have very good rebound control (so is Talbot by the way). And sometimes on a play like that, I'll have no other option other than to kick it hard into the part of the slot where my guys are... better there for example, than 3 feet in front of me where the opposition is. In this case the puck went past THREE of Talbot's guys who didn't get a stick on it before coming to Oleksiak who shot from a "savable" distance...that is, if you can see the shot (which he clearly did not).

TLDR: Talbot would have given himself better options if he were out and square, the slot may have been unavoidable, and there were at least three big mistakes on the play.

Thanks for this.

 

[nabob]

Yea, Nurse getting lost in no mans land watching Oleksiak skate right by him had no influence on that goal. I still don't understand how guys are so high on this guy. I mean he has glimpses, but his overall body of work at the NHL level leaves a lot to be desired. Especially this season where he's losing position for a goal or two almost every game.

No one takes any of your posts about Nurse seriously anymore. Don’t even know why you still bother with your stupid agenda.

 

[nabob]

Next, its a bit funny that lots of people wanted Koskinen in for this game. I mean c'mon, I know hes gotta play, and Talbot again is being overplayed but its the Pens. The reality is you don't want to shellshock koskinen into arguably the hardest start of the year and have him do that completely cold. That's not even fair to him.

The Koskinen starts will occur when the schedule normalizes and gets easier. Or when theres a new coach because right now Mclellan is playing his strong suits as long as he can.

Yeah this game could have been worse if you throw him to the wolves in his first start. I’d bet be lose 7-5 if he starts. Talbot made a bunch of really good saves, he just couldn’t make them all.

 

[Arpeggio]

The problem with Talbot isn't last night's game, it's that his numbers just haven't been good for a year and a month now. The Oilers will not win if their goalie is hovering around a .900 sv%. Now, I acknowledge that last night the defence was pretty open and the Penguins basically converted on the chances they had to win that game. So maybe it is the defence that's to blame for last year too. But they have to give Koskinen a legitimate chance to verify that it's the defence that is responsible for that sv% and not Talbot. That's why they signed him.

 

[joestevens29]

The problem with Talbot isn't last night's game, it's that his numbers just haven't been good for a year and a month now. The Oilers will not win if their goalie is hovering around a .900 sv%. Now, I acknowledge that last night the defence was pretty open and the Penguins basically converted on the chances they had to win that game. So maybe it is the defence that's to blame for last year too. But they have to give Koskinen a legitimate chance to verify that it's the defence that is responsible for that sv% and not Talbot. That's why they signed him.

In all fairness if Koskinen played yesterday and let in that many goals does it really tell us anything?

Heck even if he played 3 games and had similar numbers to Talbot, does it tell us anything?

I do think Koskinen needs to start playing pretty soon and I expect he could start playing 1 out of every 4, but him doing poorly doesn't really mean much. I don't know if we really can judge our goalies fully until we have a decent defense or a team that plays a sound defensive game.

 

[dustrock]

McLellan was mixing the lines, seeing that Chiasson was going and trying to get Drai going. I don't think the blender helped defensively, or maybe our wingers just have to play better defensively, so not every goal was Talbot and the d-men's fault.

But man Russell and Nurse were making some weird reads out there, maybe it's partially because they don't trust the wingers(?) but wow they looked like a couple of terriers chasing a ball at times.

I'm pretty much done with Brodziak and Kassian at this point. Brodziak is a smart, veteran player, I just think he can't do it anymore .

Kassian, I don't know what happened to the pretty skilled, pretty fast, pretty crazy guy from 2016-17 but he was gone all of last season and now this season. Honestly I'd waive him at this point, I 'd suggest he's below replacement level.

 

[guymez]

Was at the game.

PP was very good.
Secondary goal scoring was very good.
Chaisson had a great game. His 1st goal as an Oiler was amazing!
Oilers out chanced the Pens just like they did against the Preds. They are proving that they can play with any team in the NHL...this is huge for team confidence.

The reason they lost the game was primarily due to 2 factors IMO.
Bad defensive decisions (I am mostly looking at you Zack Kassian).and inconsistent goaltending.
Zack kassian was by far the worst player on the ice...I am seriously beginning to wonder if he has any hockey IQ at all. Just horrible play from him and IMO he shouldnt see that ice for at least the next 3 games or more. I am really close to being completely done with this player. I really hope that Caggiula is healthy in the next few days.
As for Talbot....
I have no patients for a goalie that leaks goals. By that I mean lets goals in through his body. No excuse for that and although Talbot made some huge saves there were too many pucks (at least 3) he needed to stop and didnt stop.
He needs to figure this out or he will be the reason this team doesnt succeed this season.

All and all though I am very happy with the first 7 games. For this team to get 7 points with the toughest schedule in the NHL (only to get tougher) is very encouraging IMO.

Now they need to be even after their next 2 games. If they do that then I dont see how anyone could bitch and complain about the team so far. If they do then its clear they are just a chronic complainer because it will be unjustified.

 

[jlockhart89]

I don't want to get into the whole Talbot thing, so all I'll say is: I really liked Cooper Marody's game last night, he didn't take a lot of risks but I thought he showed some poise in his first game against one of the leagues premier teams.

 

[guymez]

I don't want to get into the whole Talbot thing, so all I'll say is: I really liked Cooper Marody's game last night, he didn't take a lot of risks but I thought he showed some poise in his first game against one of the leagues premier teams.

I agree.
Cooper Marody looked really good IMO. I should have mentioned him.
I thought he looked better last night than he did in the preseason.

I am looking forward to seeing more from him.

 

[syz]

Strange game. Oilers clearly had more quality chances, but when the Penguins got them they ended up scoring. Talbot got out-dueled, but... that's sort of just what Murray does.

 

[iCanada]

Yea, Nurse getting lost in no mans land watching Oleksiak skate right by him had no influence on that goal. I still don't understand how guys are so high on this guy. I mean he has glimpses, but his overall body of work at the NHL level leaves a lot to be desired. Especially this season where he's losing position for a goal or two almost every game.

Almost as bad as that one read he made in junior.

 

[syz]

Also matches the eye test: Nurse and Russell didn't see too much of Crosby but when they did they got murdered. Klefbom-Larsson took most of those minutes and did okay.

 

[dssource]

11 goals. You don't see that too often. The team played well, Talbot did not. As much as I'd like to take it all out on him, and I would like to, Murray was just as bad. Nice to see goals from the other lines. Chiasson had a helluva game.

That was a good 'ol 80s game of hockey. Fun to watch.

Talbot should sit and watch the next one.

 

[McDNicks17]

Also matches the eye test: Nurse and Russell didn't see too much of Crosby but when they did they got murdered. Klefbom-Larsson took most of those minutes and did okay.

The interesting thing was Nurse had a -7 CF vs Crosby, but a -1SCF and a +3HDCF.

Larsson, on the other hand, had a -3CF, -3SCF and -2HDCF.

 

[Aerchon]

Thought Talbot had a lot of good saves. Not enough obviously and the loss primarily falls him I don't think he was completely to blame. Defense was also terrible.

Koskinen better start Thursday. Mclellan is an idiot if he doesn't get him in.

Nice to see non McDavid lines score.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

We really do miss having a top pairing on defense in games like this. Klefbom-Larsson are a good 2nd pairing, Nurse and Russell are both 4-5 d-men.

Even one top-pairing defenseman can slide everyone into place

Klefbom-_____
Nurse-Larsson
Russell-Bouchard

 

[ujju2]

We really do miss having a top pairing on defense in games like this. Klefbom-Larsson are a good 2nd pairing, Nurse and Russell are both 4-5 d-men.

Even one top-pairing defenseman can slide everyone into place

Klefbom-_____
Nurse-Larsson
Russell-Bouchard

I tend to think Klefbom-Larsson are a reasonable top pairing, though one of the weaker ones in the league. I more think we're simply missing Sekera (at least the 2016-17 version).

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Sekera
Russell-Bouchard

Looks decent enough to me. It could be better, of course, but it's not really going to bring the team down as a whole.

 

[Raab]

People are high on Nurse, and rightly so, because he has been our best defenseman more often than not for the last year and a bit. I never get tired of his ability to skate the puck out of danger when being forechecked. He’s the toughest player on the Oilers not named Lucic and I’d argue he is meaner. He’s starting to show a lot more offensive moxie as well. Maybe you prefer the Russell or Benning cycle circus? He aint perfect, but if you dont like what Nurse does, you’re wrong.

I don't mind Russell. He doesn't usually lose position like Nurse. It's my #1 beef with the guy, we've lost two games this season already because of his defensive lapses. Also Nurse is far from the toughest dman we have. Larsson is far, far, more physical, and rarely if ever is out of position. If Nurse could play defence like Larsson, while providing the offensive glimpses he's shown this season. He'd be one hell of a defenceman.

 

[Raab]

No one takes any of your posts about Nurse seriously anymore. Don’t even know why you still bother with your stupid agenda.

The only people ignoring my posts are those who know nothing about hockey. Glad the people in media are starting to speak out as well. Struds today as a defenceman like myself spoke out against Nurse on the 3rd goal. Nurse was directly responsible for 3 of the goals against last night. He made a few nice plays, but we lost the game solely because of his poor reads. He looked Schultz level bad on the highlights I saw.

 

[Verdadplus]

Nurse is pure garbage
Trading him and Publjsrvi tomorrow is justified
But Chiarelli is an abject incompetent

 

[Luminiferous]

Nurse and Talbot stunk it up. Can Mcdavid swap to D ? Pair him with Klefblom.

 

[Hynh]

Strange game. Oilers clearly had more quality chances, but when the Penguins got them they ended up scoring. Talbot got out-dueled, but... that's sort of just what Murray does.

These shot location charts are garbage, always have been. Oleksiak's second goal was from the top of the circles, Crosby's OT winner was nowhere near the circle, Hornqvist's second and Oleksiak's first are better off swapping locations. Making any sort of conclusions from such obviously broken data is pointless.