Post-Game Talk: Pens - 5, Isles - 0

[ColePens]

I don't think you can praise the Pens for all of these things working out well.

I know this is going to be 'omg trust your eyes and forget everything else" sort of thing, but Kuhnhack hasn't been amazing at any pro level. Maybe they looked at him in the A and divined *something* (i mean, clearly they did), but I really struggle to believe they thought he'd be this good. Otherwise, he'd have been up sooner.

I think Sullivan had some attachment to young players and they got a bit lucky.

That's not a bad thing at all. In fact, it's what they should have been doing every year for the past 7, but I just don't think this was part of a master plan.

I was actually going to start a thread about this down the road. How much of this stuff is luck? How much of this stuff was planned?

Rust/Kuhn: Luck?

Identity of speed: Luck? I mean come on..we didn't get Kessel because he was fast. We got him to score goals. Then we had a coach who played with no speed. All of a sudden, we bring speed in (Daley/Hags) and it clicks. Was it a vision of JR... or just pure luck?

Dumo: Luck or well developed?

Cullen: Oh come on.. that's damn lucky.

Coaching change: Was it for his x's and o's/speed or was it because MJ just sucked?

 

[IcedCapp]

I was actually going to start a thread about this down the road. How much of this stuff is luck? How much of this stuff was planned?

Rust/Kuhn: Luck?

Identity of speed: Luck? I mean come on..we didn't get Kessel because he was fast. We got him to score goals. Then we had a coach who played with no speed. All of a sudden, we bring speed in (Daley/Hags) and it clicks. Was it a vision of JR... or just pure luck?

Dumo: Luck or well developed?

Cullen: Oh come on.. that's damn lucky.

Coaching change: Was it for his x's and o's/speed or was it because MJ just sucked?

I think Rust is the LEAST LUCKY of all of those moves.

Dumoulin... it's weird. I guess well-developed? But he never looked THIS good until this year.

IN FACT, all of his better qualities this year (calmness, positional play) are the exact things that were killing him on his cups of coffee before.

Kuhn and Sheary seem like a mixture of luck and something that happens when you tell a young kid with some bit of skill in him, "we trust you, you're not getting benched tomorrow, go play"

Cullen... i did NOT know the guy could skate this well at 39.

Truthfully, I wonder about next year. Obviously I hope they ride the wave this year to a Cup, but next year... were there really 4-5 hidden NHL players on that AHL roster?

Was Mike Sullivan really wrongfully not an NHL head coach all these years?

Was Mike Johnston REALLY that bad?

Seems way too "perfect storm" of good things, just like the first 3 months were way too "perfect storm" of bad things

 

[ColePens]

Well.. out of all the good/bad of JR, the one thing that will make his legacy with the Pens is he FINALLY gave this team an identity. I think you build speed for the rest of the time Sid/Geno are here. Be a speed team from here on out.

If they do that, and we win a Cup, I'll forgive the Despres trade, the **** up of one year of Sprong, etc. The identity of the team is sometimes worth the prices you pay of a bad GM. We have lacked an identity for 6+ years.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I was actually going to start a thread about this down the road. How much of this stuff is luck? How much of this stuff was planned?

Rust/Kuhn: Luck?

Identity of speed: Luck? I mean come on..we didn't get Kessel because he was fast. We got him to score goals. Then we had a coach who played with no speed. All of a sudden, we bring speed in (Daley/Hags) and it clicks. Was it a vision of JR... or just pure luck?

Dumo: Luck or well developed?

Cullen: Oh come on.. that's damn lucky.

Coaching change: Was it for his x's and o's/speed or was it because MJ just sucked?

Luck is always involved, tbh. Players being available to draft and not having health problems.

Rust: They drafted and developed him, and he got time under Johnston as well. That's not really luck aside from him getting lucky that Sullivan was the AHL coach for awhile.

Kuhnhackl: They drafted and developed him, but I'd say that him being in the system long enough to get this chance is luck because I doubt anyone saw this coming the whole time.

Dumoulin: Luck that they were forced to play him and he thrived. His long and slow development was probably more accidental and because of depth than anything. So I'd say there was a decent amount of luck with him and he didn't get traded for crap. Hynes and whoever else did a good job, though.

Cullen: Lucky because I don't think anyone saw these numbers and his line happening, but they still went after him in free agency because they thought he could help. So him helping isn't luck but how good he has been is most likely the team getting lucky.

Coaching: Highly complicated. They probably had doubts about Johnston over the off season and Hynes left so they went after the coach with the most NHL coaching experience they could find. Sullivan is also a different character than Johnston, more aggressive in general and emotive. I think that Johnston got in over his head and that was it, he did actually start his NHL gig well and then other teams figured them out and injuries hit. Johnston went into his job saving shell and never came out of it. Sullivan also benefited from some crucial trades so I'd bet that the difference isn't as astronomical as it looks; still significant but not this big. Scuderi and Dupuis aren't options for Sullivan to screw up with and, lbr, he struggles enough with certain vets as is, and Daley bailed out the defense. Sullivan is a damn good motivator and is probably benefiting like Bylsma did from another coach drilling defense into them and making the team miserable.

Identity: I think we saw them change gears abruptly with the coaching change. Part luck and part being able to implement that change because of good trades and having fast pieces on the team and in the AHL. The plan changed and they were able to get the pieces in place.



I'd say that Murray was a lot of luck, tbh. He flew under the radar and Jarry was drafted in the 2nd round o everyone was looking there... now we're here with him. He was developed but goalies are weird and no one would have predicted this when he was drafted.

 

[billybudd]

I think Rust is the LEAST LUCKY of all of those moves.

Dumoulin... it's weird. I guess well-developed? But he never looked THIS good until this year.

IN FACT, all of his better qualities this year (calmness, positional play) are the exact things that were killing him on his cups of coffee before.

Kuhn and Sheary seem like a mixture of luck and something that happens when you tell a young kid with some bit of skill in him, "we trust you, you're not getting benched tomorrow, go play"

Cullen... i did NOT know the guy could skate this well at 39.

Truthfully, I wonder about next year. Obviously I hope they ride the wave this year to a Cup, but next year... were there really 4-5 hidden NHL players on that AHL roster?

Was Mike Sullivan really wrongfully not an NHL head coach all these years?

Was Mike Johnston REALLY that bad?

Seems way too "perfect storm" of good things, just like the first 3 months were way too "perfect storm" of bad things

Dumo was panicky in the NHL (though he had started to shake that by the end of last year), but in the minors (and NCAA), he looked like Raymond Bourque. I don't think it was completely unforseeable he'd turn out to be a guy we can count on for big, important minutes. Maybe not this soon into his rookie season.

 

[Burgs]

I'd say that Murray was a lot of luck, tbh. He flew under the radar and Jarry was drafted in the 2nd round o everyone was looking there... now we're here with him. He was developed but goalies are weird and no one would have predicted this when he was drafted.

Murray didn't even need much development in our organization. He came in and dominated the AHL as a rookie, and now he's doing extremely well in the NHL again as a rookie (smaller sample size, though). So kudos to his coaches in Sault Ste. Marie (mostly goalie coach Seamus Kotyk, I guess) and whoever among Penguins scouts pushed for him. They certainly liked his projectable frame and probably saw early glimpses of his calm demeanor. It certainly wasn't his numbers on paper. Murray's junior team was pretty bad defensively so he got shelled with 35+ shots on a regular basis and never had particularly good stats. Never played at the WJC either, though he played well at the Under-18 world championship.

 

[ColePens]

That's a good point, Burgs. And since you are our resident prospect king, were there rumblings of this type of greatness prior to him stepping into the pro level? I just don't remember his name being brought up. His poise is not normal for a youngster. Eating up NHL shots takes years to figure out. MAF is a perfect example of that.

 

[Burgs]

That's a good point, Burgs. And since you are our resident prospect king, were there rumblings of this type of greatness prior to him stepping into the pro level? I just don't remember his name being brought up. His poise is not normal for a youngster. Eating up NHL shots takes years to figure out. MAF is a perfect example of that.

The lucky thing for us was that Murray wasn't the Greyhounds starter in his draft year which hurt his chances. 2011-12 he did well when he got the chance, like at the U18 WHC and in the CHL Top Prospects Game (where he was MVP of Team Cherry). But that season the Greyhounds had traded for Jack Campbell - drafted 11th overall by Dallas in 2010 - to lead them into the playoffs (which they still missed, and Campbell eventually busted) so Murray didn't get enough minutes to prove himself. So his ranking was all over the place. Central Scouting Services had him only as the 18th North American goalie while Craig Button of TSN had him 43rd overall a month before the draft. The experts did laud his size, composure and competitiveness, with many questioning his skating and some even his rebound control. Overall I don't think anyone predicted him to become this good.