GDT: Pens’ Black & Gold Game (7 p.m., CEC | Free admission | TV: ROOT)

[WVP]

Richard - that's a pretty sound summary.

I think the best route is to give Tangradi a solid chance to show if he can make a contribution next to Malkin and Neal. Not 2 games or two weeks. I know it's a shorter season but Malkin and Neal would be fine with me next to them for a few weeks and it can be addressed by the deadline if he's not working out.

Bennett appears to be a good one. But I think he might benefit more from being the man in WBS for this season and starting next year in Pittsburgh, more than he'd contribute here.

FYI, Bombulie has me really excited for Bennett. Consistently praising him as WBS's best player this year, far and away. This morning from JB's blog:

I’ve said it on various radio appearances but I’m not sure I’ve written here: I am totally drinking the Beau Bennett Kool-Aid. I think the kid is the real deal top-six winger the Penguins organization has been trying to find forever. He thinks the game like an elite skill player.

Not sure what we do with Jeffrey, I don't see him getting a top 12 spot over Adams.



Defense could be an issue and I think Shero knows it needs to be improved (going after Yandle and Suter this past summer). If Martin and Orpik play to their potential, it might be passable. If they struggle again we will have a big problem defensively.

I'd send Despres back as well.

 

[regard]

Im cool with Tangradi over Bennett and part of the reason is Id like to see Bennett be Crosbys winger in the future and think Tangradi can be Ginos Malone.

 

[Captain Hook]

Defense could be an issue and I think Shero knows it needs to be improved (going after Ballard and Suter this past summer). If Martin and Orpik play to their potential, it might be passable. If they struggle again we will have a big problem defensively.

Never heard about that.

 

[WVP]

Never heard about that.

Yandle. No idea why I typed Ballard...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There are a few of us on the Canes board (me being one of them) that think with his speed, overall awareness, and under-rated playmaking ability, that Sutter would have made a better winger than center. True he's valuable in the "shut down role" and does well at center, but I would have loved to have seen him as a top line winger with EStaal.

The Pens have an ideal third line pivot in Jeffrey. I have no idea how things will shake out, but the flexibility IS there if they ever want to experiment with Sutter at wing.

I have no clue if it will happen, but as long as Jeffrey is on the roster he gives them that type of flexibility.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yandle. No idea why I typed Ballard...

Makes sense now. I was wondering how Ballard was going to improve anything given his struggles.

 

[Richard]

Richard - that's a pretty sound summary.

I think the best route is to give Tangradi a solid chance to show if he can make a contribution next to Malkin and Neal. Not 2 games or two weeks. I know it's a shorter season but Malkin and Neal would be fine with me next to them for a few weeks and it can be addressed by the deadline if he's not working out.

Bennett appears to be a good one. But I think he might benefit more from being the man in WBS for this season and starting next year in Pittsburgh, more than he'd contribute here.

FYI, Bombulie has me really excited for Bennett. Consistently praising him as WBS's best player this year, far and away. This morning from JB's blog:



Not sure what we do with Jeffrey, I don't see him getting a top 12 spot over Adams.



Defense could be an issue and I think Shero knows it needs to be improved (going after Ballard and Suter this past summer). If Martin and Orpik play to their potential, it might be passable. If they struggle again we will have a big problem defensively.

I'd send Despres back as well.

Agree with Tangradi 100%. Now is the time to give him this season with Malkin and Neal and see what he grows into.

Despres made some good plays but is trying to do too much out there. He'll be back to the AHL and needs to settle down a bit.

Bennett is the best "prospect" I've seen play for the Pens for a decade (Staal, Malkin, Crosby all started with the big club and Letang got very limited AHL experience). Let Bennett dominate the AHL.

Jeffrey? I dunno, I haven't noticed him. Seems to me to be a tweener. Reminds me of a taller Toby Peterson; on a poor team could put up some numbers but will never be a point producer on a quality team, good for spot duty. Maybe I am wrong, I dunno....

 

[Dupree13]

Re: giving Tangradi time, he has to show that he's worth the investment. If he's showing good flashes but just needs more time to build chemistry than yeah, you give it time. But if he goes out there and looks totally out of his league, then no.

We should see pretty quickly if he looks like he belongs or looks like he doesn't.

 

[Shockmaster]

Not sure what we do with Jeffrey, I don't see him getting a top 12 spot over Adams.

Put him in, take Vitale out.

*gasp!*

Please. I have no idea where this man crush for Vitale comes from. The guy is a fringe NHL player, a 4th liner at best. Jeffrey showed some promise before tearing his ACL two seasons ago. If the Pens want a better 4th line, Jeffrey should go in before Vitale.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Agree with Tangradi 100%. Now is the time to give him this season with Malkin and Neal and see what he grows into.

Despres made some good plays but is trying to do too much out there. He'll be back to the AHL and needs to settle down a bit.

Bennett is the best "prospect" I've seen play for the Pens for a decade (Staal, Malkin, Crosby all started with the big club and Letang got very limited AHL experience). Let Bennett dominate the AHL.

Jeffrey? I dunno, I haven't noticed him. Seems to me to be a tweener. Reminds me of a taller Toby Peterson; on a poor team could put up some numbers but will never be a point producer on a quality team, good for spot duty. Maybe I am wrong, I dunno....

BB is the best fwd prospect to play for the farm in decades, since Kraft. Kraft was dominant in the A, but his foot speed really held him back in the NHL. In terms of skill, BB is easily the top fwd prospect I've seen since I started following the farm in '94. However, there has also been a dearth of fwd talent over that time. So take it how you will.

Gotta disagree about Jeffrey and Petersen. They were much different players. Both did very well in the A but Petersen was more dynamic (in the A).

 

[mrzeigler]

Am I the only person who finds it extremely difficult to evaluate players in scrimmages? When you're interested in getting a feel for some players on both sides of the ice, it's very tough to isolate on them.

Say you want to get a read on how Tangradi is doing away from the puck but you also want to evaluate what Sutter is doing. Now, toss Jeffrey, Bennet, Megna, Despres, Morrow, Martin, Glass, Bortuzzo into the mix and I found it almost impossible to form a reliable impression of anyone but the guys who draws my attention to them (Sutter, Cooke, Malkin, Letang). Sure I got to focus on players for little bits of time, but do I feel qualified to evaluate many of them from last night? Hell no.

I get that if you want to seriously scout these guys, then you would focus only one or two players and disregard everything else, but I sincerely doubt many in here did that (esp. if you were watching on TV and the cameramen/producer made the decision for you re: who to watch) ... which is why the Martin and/or Tangradi detractors saw what they wanted to see.

 

[Alesle]

Tough decisions today for management. Bennett or Tangradi? Strait, Lovejoy, Bortuzzo, or Despres? Ho goes and who stays?

I think they'll play it safe. Send Bennett and Despres down and keep 8 defensemen on the opening roster.

 

[mpp9]

Watched DB's post game presser. When asked about Despres' play, he seemed to chalk it up to rust. Citing how other players weren't executing real well either.

Still think he makes the team. If he can't handle a role with Letang, he switches spots with Niskanen. One of Lovejoy/Strait get traded.

 

[Richard]

BB is the best fwd prospect to play for the farm in decades, since Kraft. Kraft was dominant in the A, but his foot speed really held him back in the NHL. In terms of skill, BB is easily the top fwd prospect I've seen since I started following the farm in '94. However, there has also been a dearth of fwd talent over that time. So take it how you will.

Gotta disagree about Jeffrey and Petersen. They were much different players. Both did very well in the A but Petersen was more dynamic (in the A).

Bingo, Kraft was the prospect I was thinking of. I remember watching him in 2000 rifle pucks over Ron Tugnutt and thinking that this kid is going to score 40 goals sooner rather than later. All the Penguin stars, Kovy, Lang, Straka (Jagr was off on his own doing his thing) were watchin the drill at Southpoint and watching Kraft just rocket pucks top shelf every. single. drill.

At the time who could fault Craig Patrick for not trading Kraft to LA for Rob Blake? I certainly wouldn't have.

Taught me a lot about prospects. You gotta have the skating.

 

[mrzeigler]

I think they'll play it safe. Send Bennett and Despres down and keep 8 defensemen on the opening roster.

FWIW, yesterday, Rossi (yes, I know, ) said his take on the matter was that he thinks the front office wanted Despres to start the year in WB so as not to expose another Dman to waivers but that the coaching staff must have talked them into being more openminded about Despres making the team.

 

[JTG]

That's not true at all. His first season with the penguins he played great. He wasn't physical and still soft. You could over look it then because his skating,positioning,angles and stick were all great. Currently, he can still skate. He's awful. It's a new season he will get his chance to some way do a 180 and get back to being a really good player. I just really don't think he will.

I'm not sure how if you can't stand a soft as butter d man that turns the puck over, can't play defense any longer for whatever reason makes you a yinzer.

Some people make me laugh throwing out the yinzer **** like their better than everyone else that roots for the penguins/steelers ect.

So Martin just isn't physical enough for you, is what your post really amounts to.

All of the Martin bashing comes back to him not being physical, and that's fine. What gets completely lost though is that a lot of the best defensemen in this league do it without being physical. Lidstrom wasn't physical at all. He just played a smart game and was able to steal pucks and turn them the other way. Martin, when on his game, excels at doing the exact same thing. I'm not saying Martin couldn't be more physical, because he can, nor am I saying I would like to see a little more urgency in his game.

And like I said, it's the typical yinzer mentality. "This guy doesn't play a physical game therefore he's useless." The hilarious part is that people are up in arms over his play (which wasn't even bad at all) in a meaningless scrimmage. It took 1 meaningless game for people to jump all over his ass again. That's the part that makes me laugh.

I'll never excuse his play in the first half of last year, or how horrendous he was in the playoffs. Just because I won't excuse it doesn't mean I can't see that he played great his first year here, and had a string of 40 good games last season sandwiched in the middle of two poor stretches.

I'm not against moving Martin whatsoever. I think we can do better, but the ridiculousness that ensues over things he really doesn't do or things that didn't even happen are what I call out. I always think back to last playoffs and a play he was on the ice for, but had nothing to do with where we weren't playing sound fundamental hockey, and then having 10 or 12 posters going, "Martin " Martin had absolutely nothing to do with the play, and it wasn't his fault in the least, but like I said, he's the whipping boy, and will always take the wrap.

It's those people who call into the sports shows after a Steelers loss calling for Ben Roethlisberger to be traded.

 

[Richard]

So Martin just isn't physical enough for you, is what your post really amounts to.

All of the Martin bashing comes back to him not being physical, and that's fine. What gets completely lost though is that a lot of the best defensemen in this league do it without being physical. Lidstrom wasn't physical at all. He just played a smart game and was able to steal pucks and turn them the other way. Martin, when on his game, excels at doing the exact same thing. I'm not saying Martin couldn't be more physical, because he can, nor am I saying I would like to see a little more urgency in his game.

And like I said, it's the typical yinzer mentality. "This guy doesn't play a physical game therefore he's useless." The hilarious part is that people are up in arms over his play (which wasn't even bad at all) in a meaningless scrimmage. It took 1 meaningless game for people to jump all over his ass again. That's the part that makes me laugh.

I'll never excuse his play in the first half of last year, or how horrendous he was in the playoffs. Just because I won't excuse it doesn't mean I can't see that he played great his first year here, and had a string of 40 good games last season sandwiched in the middle of two poor stretches.

I'm not against moving Martin whatsoever. I think we can do better, but the ridiculousness that ensues over things he really doesn't do or things that didn't even happen are what I call out. I always think back to last playoffs and a play he was on the ice for, but had nothing to do with where we weren't playing sound fundamental hockey, and then having 10 or 12 posters going, "Martin " Martin had absolutely nothing to do with the play, and it wasn't his fault in the least, but like I said, he's the whipping boy, and will always take the wrap.

It's those people who call into the sports shows after a Steelers loss calling for Ben Roethlisberger to be traded.

I understand your point, however I feel that it is completely unwarranted in this case. Paul Martin is a guy who hasn't got that extra gear for crunch time, or hasn't shown it in his Penguin career. I have image after image of him bailing out against the Tampa and Philly forcheck. As a teammate I couldn't count on him to sacrifice himself to make a play.

I don't trust him. I don't see a viable role on this team for him.

Comparing him to Lidstroms style of play is also a joke; Lidstrom had all world skill everywhere, and was a perfection in terms of bodywork and positioning. When did you see Lidstrom bodied off of a puck? Didn't happen.

I never asked Martin to be this physical fearsome checker, just to make simple plays and not skirt through the hard shifts.

Martin won't ever fit on this Penguin club. It's yin to yang.

 

[MonsterSurge]

Put him in, take Vitale out.

*gasp!*

Please. I have no idea where this man crush for Vitale comes from. The guy is a fringe NHL player, a 4th liner at best. Jeffrey showed some promise before tearing his ACL two seasons ago. If the Pens want a better 4th line, Jeffrey should go in before Vitale.

Vitale has a role on the team. You can find 50 Dustin Jeffrey's in my opinion. Everyone talks about wanting a more gritty team and you want Jeffrey over Vitale?

 

[M0NTY26]

Watched DB's post game presser. When asked about Despres' play, he seemed to chalk it up to rust. Citing how other players weren't executing real well either.

Still think he makes the team. If he can't handle a role with Letang, he switches spots with Niskanen. One of Lovejoy/Strait get traded.

Despres better make the team, because I'm banking on he and Letang being paired together for one of my fantasy teams lol. Could be a real sleeper!

 

[ColePens]

I didn't just read to take Vitale out, did I? I'm not happy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Bingo, Kraft was the prospect I was thinking of. I remember watching him in 2000 rifle pucks over Ron Tugnutt and thinking that this kid is going to score 40 goals sooner rather than later. All the Penguin stars, Kovy, Lang, Straka (Jagr was off on his own doing his thing) were watchin the drill at Southpoint and watching Kraft just rocket pucks top shelf every. single. drill.

At the time who could fault Craig Patrick for not trading Kraft to LA for Rob Blake? I certainly wouldn't have.

Taught me a lot about prospects. You gotta have the skating.

I was really high on Kraft as well. He had a lot of talent and to be fair to us, several hockey publications had him listed as a Calder favorite.

 

[gordie]

Despres better make the team, because I'm banking on he and Letang being paired together for one of my fantasy teams lol. Could be a real sleeper!

Love this pairing because both are good skaters with skills and it gives Letang the chance to cheat in the offensive zone as long as Sid or Geno's line is on the ice.

 

[JTG]

I understand your point, however I feel that it is completely unwarranted in this case. Paul Martin is a guy who hasn't got that extra gear for crunch time, or hasn't shown it in his Penguin career. I have image after image of him bailing out against the Tampa and Philly forcheck. As a teammate I couldn't count on him to sacrifice himself to make a play.

I don't trust him. I don't see a viable role on this team for him.

Comparing him to Lidstroms style of play is also a joke; Lidstrom had all world skill everywhere, and was a perfection in terms of bodywork and positioning. When did you see Lidstrom bodied off of a puck? Didn't happen.

I never asked Martin to be this physical fearsome checker, just to make simple plays and not skirt through the hard shifts.

Martin won't ever fit on this Penguin club. It's yin to yang.

I think back to his first season here and disagree that he cannot fit in here. He fit in just fine. He was great that year. No reason he couldn't return to that level of play at all.

My comparison to Lidstrom was in terms of what they both have to do to be successful. Lidstrom did it with smarts and savvy. Paul Martin did the exact same thing up until last year. That's what caught the eye of Ray Shero and a dozen other teams, and what earned him the contract that he got.

He could stand to simplify his game more, as can everyone on this team. Our departure from the fundamentals of hockey is why we lost int he playoffs last season.

 

[M0NTY26]

I think back to his first season here and disagree that he cannot fit in here. He fit in just fine. He was great that year. No reason he couldn't return to that level of play at all.

My comparison to Lidstrom was in terms of what they both have to do to be successful. Lidstrom did it with smarts and savvy. Paul Martin did the exact same thing up until last year. That's what caught the eye of Ray Shero and a dozen other teams, and what earned him the contract that he got.

He could stand to simplify his game more, as can everyone on this team. Our departure from the fundamentals of hockey is why we lost int he playoffs last season.

That and Cloud Gerew is the best player in the world.

 

[SeventyOne]

The fact that Adams has as much of a guaranteed roster spot as Sid and Geno is a joke.