Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: November - Go home Sully, you're drunk

[HandshakeLine]

Gaudreau definitely isn't who I'd target. I would want someone bigger, or that doesn't have the size concerns Gaudreau has.

But honestly I don't care about a 1-for-1 trade. Move him now, get assets then figure out what to do with them later. We play okay with like 47 guys injured. Losing Jake is just another piece down.

BTW your point that he was a center coming up is well-taken. Sully and the team know that his all-around game is regressed. Not even entertaining the notion of putting him at C down Crosby & Malkin...let alone Crosby, Malkin and Carter is proof positive that they know he's a liability now.

Shit make it a package deal, Jake + Rust for double the fun.

 

[KIRK]

Shit make it a package deal, Jake + Rust for double the fun.

Two little guys for one big guy?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Shit make it a package deal, Jake + Rust for double the fun.

Two little guys for one big guy?

Jake and Rust for Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

 

[Gurglesons]

Gaudreau definitely isn't who I'd target. I would want someone bigger, or that doesn't have the size concerns Gaudreau has.

But honestly I don't care about a 1-for-1 trade. Move him now, get assets then figure out what to do with them later. We play okay with like 47 guys injured. Losing Jake is just another piece down.

BTW your point that he was a center coming up is well-taken. Sully and the team know that his all-around game is regressed. Not even entertaining the notion of putting him at C down Crosby & Malkin...let alone Crosby, Malkin and Carter is proof positive that they know he's a liability now.

Giving how Calgary is rolling I doubt Gaudreau is available and in regards to your size fetish, Kessel had the same criticisms as Gaudreau.

Gaudreau would make this team a real threat if he was added here. He fits our system. You bring in a Tkachuk and he's just going to be an issue.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Look, you don't give him away (sometimes people construe slightly hyperbolic comments made here as ZOMG GIVE HIM AWAY FOR A BAG OF PUCKS), but I really don't see the controversy in saying THIS Jake isn't an untouchable and, as such, is someone you're willing to entertain moving.

For sure. My thought is that he still has pretty significant value out there on the market. Unlike, say, Zucker.

But for as negative as I am on Zucker I think he's a better player than Jake for the rest of this year.

If we can't get anything for Guentzel may as well hold onto him. But I think 1st + good prospect could at least still be in the cards.

 

[KIRK]

Jake and Rust for Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

I'm not sure Jake and Rust get you Tkachuk.

(initially joking but now that I think on it, not entirely joking)

 

[HandshakeLine]

Two little guys for one big guy?

Sure. Maybe also throw in a goalie for a depth blueliner. I don't even really care what we get for them anymore, I'm just bored with them and their play. And also Rust is now a ghost.

 

[KIRK]

Sure. Maybe also throw in a goalie for a depth blueliner. I don't even really care what we get for them anymore, I'm just bored with them and their play. And also Rust is now a ghost.

Well, in his defense, he's been injured the last few.

Jake, of course, has no such excuse.

 

[66-30-33]

Jake to Ottawa for picks/prospects.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well, in his defense, he's been injured the last few.

Jake, of course, has no such excuse.

Rust is always hovering between the spheres, so who knows. He's defo a bona-fide playoff ghost even before he got hit and 'asploded into the astral plane this time.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Two little guys for one big guy?

Why not? They were effective in a different NHL, but also during a different era in Sid and Geno's careers. Putting Guentzel with Malkin this year likely wouldn't even have the same impact, with 71 coming back from three torn ligaments; asking Malkin to carry undersized wingers who don't have grit to their game (anymore) is not a recipe for success this year, and we already saw last year and again last night that that doesn't work for Sid going forward either. We'll see, and I guess I would still like to see Guentzel with Malkin for a stretch to see before moving on. What are the chances of that with Sullivan? Smaller than I thought they would be at the start of the year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sure. Maybe also throw in a goalie for a depth blueliner. I don't even really care what we get for them anymore, I'm just bored with them and their play. And also Rust is now a ghost.

Rust is going through the same metamorphosis Kunitz went through when he started to score a bit more. All the stuff that made him a good player disappeared and he suddenly thinks he's Ovechkin just skating around looking for openings to shoot.

 

[KIRK]

Rust is always hovering between the spheres, so who knows. He's defo a bona-fide playoff ghost even before he got hit and 'asploded into the astral plane this time.

Rust is a hot hand guy. When he's hot or showing huge chemistry with someone, ride him in the top 6. When he goes cold, you've got to slot him back until he gets the hot hand again.

Problem is, that applies also to Zucker and Kapanen, and it's not like there are other options.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust is a hot hand guy. When he's hot or showing huge chemistry with someone, ride him in the top 6. When he goes cold, you've got to slot him back until he gets the hot hand again.

Problem is, that applies also to Zucker and Kapanen, and it's not like there are other options.

I think Rust is a solid top six forward, but the issue is he doesn't mesh with Sid and never has yet he forces him there.

He, Zucker or Kapanen should be on our third line and McGinn should be in the top six if we are not running Guentzel - Malkin- Rust or trying Guentzel - Carter -Rust.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Rust is a hot hand guy. When he's hot or showing huge chemistry with someone, ride him in the top 6. When he goes cold, you've got to slot him back until he gets the hot hand again.

Problem is, that applies also to Zucker and Kapanen, and it's not like there are other options.

So what you're saying is the winger mix is off? I seem to recall someone beating that drum for the last couple of seasons, but I can't quite remember who that genius is.

 

[KIRK]

So what you're saying is the winger mix is off? I seem to recall someone beating that drum for the last couple of seasons, but I can't quite remember who that genius is.

You don't have to have been a genius to know that.

In fact, I know for sure you don't.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Jordan "I'm 100% going to walk" Staal can get a top-10 pick and a prospect like Dumo, I'm certain Jake can get a similar or better return.

May need JR to come out of retirement and join another team's FO first though.

In all seriousness, I have zero doubt whatsoever this team would have offers lined up around the block if they made Jake available. It'd just be a matter of finding the right one.

 

[KIRK]

If Jordan "I'm 100% going to walk" Staal can get a top-10 pick and a prospect like Dumo, I'm certain Jake can get a similar or better return.

May need JR to come out of retirement and join another team's FO first though.

In all seriousness, I have zero doubt whatsoever this team would have offers lined up around the block if they made Jake available. It'd just be a matter of finding the right one.

I don't see that.

Old Jake gets you a Staal return (which included Sutter, who's reputation then was pretty good). This Jake doesn't get you a tweener top 6 winger, a winger prospect, and 9OV. No way.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't see that.

Old Jake gets you a Staal return (which included Sutter, who's reputation then was pretty good). This Jake doesn't get you a tweener top 6 winger, a winger prospect, and 9OV. No way.

One of my "priors" has always been that the league doesn't have a uniform valuation of players, and that some execs will believe they can rehabilitate Jake and/or play him with such a dynamic center that they could just use him as a genius finisher and secondary playmaker. This is a noobish opinion, but like...Edmonton maybe?

Like Kessel was legit a negative-value player in '18-'19 and we still got a recent 1st in POJ out of it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't see that.

Old Jake gets you a Staal return (which included Sutter, who's reputation then was pretty good). This Jake doesn't get you a tweener top 6 winger, a winger prospect, and 9OV. No way.

Oh, I think old Jake gets you way better than a Staal return. I think current Jake still has the resume to get a lot of GMs salivating.

Seth Jones just signed the most insane contract I can really ever remember a guy signing after like two or three years of miserable hockey. GMs are f***ing duuuuumb.

I think we could probably get a top-10 pick and a prospect that'd be way better than anything we have now. Probably not much more, if we're being honest. Somebody will view Jake as a "get over the hump" or "vault us into contention" piece, I'm pretty convinced of that. I just don't have any faith whatsoever Jake is somebody this team would move.

 

[KIRK]

Oh, I think old Jake gets you way better than a Staal return. I think current Jake still has the resume to get a lot of GMs salivating.

Seth Jones just signed the most insane contract I can really ever remember a guy signing after like two or three years of miserable hockey. GMs are f***ing duuuuumb.

I think we could probably get a top-10 pick and a prospect that'd be way better than anything we have now. Probably not much more, if we're being honest. Somebody will view Jake as a "get over the hump" or "vault us into contention" piece, I'm pretty convinced of that. I just don't have any faith whatsoever Jake is somebody this team would move.

10 OV and a B grade prospect? Yeah, maybe I could see that on the best of days.

EDIT: Remember who paid that exorbitant price for Staal.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

10 OV and a B grade prospect? Yeah, maybe I could see that on the best of days.

EDIT: Remember who paid that exorbitant price for Staal.

Yeah, that's why I said we'd probably need JR to come out of retirement.

I do think we can get serious value for Jake, even now. But we've gotta be comfortable moving him--which I highly doubt we are, and we can't wait another season or two for his value to keep dropping.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah, that's why I said we'd probably need JR to come out of retirement.

I do think we can get serious value for Jake, even now. But we've gotta be comfortable moving him--which I highly doubt we are, and we can't wait another season or two for his value to keep dropping.

If Hextall's evaluation is right, then yeah you'll get good value for Jake. If he gets it wrong, though, it's the type of package that blows up in your face.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Even if Hexturke aren't comfortable starting to dismantle things just yet, I do think this summer is gonna make that decision for them. If/when Letang plays hardball and demands the moon and stars for his retirement deal, or Geno wants more than a guy with his age+wear and tear should be getting, we may be forced to start the categorical piecing out of the roster earlier than we want.

The only thing I'm really hoping for between now and the draft is that we move Rust. I'm steadfast in assuming it'll never happen, and the odds are we'd try to keep him around even if it's a stupid contract, but that's the only thing I really want. I'll be happy to see the team make some moves and cause fireworks re: Jake and Kap and Dumo this coming summer though.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, that's why I said we'd probably need JR to come out of retirement.

I do think we can get serious value for Jake, even now. But we've gotta be comfortable moving him--which I highly doubt we are, and we can't wait another season or two for his value to keep dropping.

It's pretty weird how the "secondary" core (Jake, Rust, Dumo) are also seen as untouchable.

Everyone else has moved, but you get the vibe that the team views moving those guys as also an admission that the window is over. I don't think I'm just projecting when I say that.