Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: End of an era?

[HandshakeLine]

Didn’t Ol’ Man Sully also say something along the lines of “We still believe that Kappy can be an elite player” at the start of this season?

Ol' Man Sullivan says a lot of things when he drinks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So did every player not on L1 or Malkin tbh.

Which makes me question the coach not the players.

Heinen, Carter, Blueger and McGinn were pretty consistent in terms of production throughout the year. Kapanen and ERod were the only guys who really fell off a cliff.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd love to see some kind of difficulty-of-schedule breakdown first and second half of last season.

It seemed like a pretty stark contrast but I have to wonder if the facts bear that out.

 

[Gurglesons]

Heinen, Carter, Blueger and McGinn were pretty consistent in terms of production throughout the year. Kapanen and ERod were the only guys who really fell off a cliff.

I mean, that’s on you if you want to believe that.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I'd love to see some kind of difficulty-of-schedule breakdown first and second half of last season.

It seemed like a pretty stark contrast but I have to wonder if the facts bear that out.

There were points in the beginning of the season that there were difficult runs of teams. There was definitely a tough run after the ASB but I think people are making it sound like the beginning of the season was a cakewalk............it wasn't but it definitely fits some of the posters agenda on these boards.

At the end of the day even the best teams lose to the worst teams throughout the season. IDK want anyone says to make it in the playoffs is a dogfight no matter and its a pretty historic task to do it as many years consecutively as we have.

 

[Peat]

Heinen's first 30 games - 14 points. Last 27 - 12. Not much of a difference - Danton Heinen 2021-22 Splits | Hockey-Reference.com

Blueger's first 22 games - 9 points. Last 25 - 11 points. Not much of a difference - Teddy Blueger 2021-22 Splits | Hockey-Reference.com

And McGinn's harder to do on account of the late season injuries but 5 points in the first 8 and 4 points in the last 8 are again, not much of a difference - Brock McGinn 2021-22 Splits | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Gurglesons]

Sam Gagner seems like a Sullivan Hail Mary veteran ask.

 

[IcedCapp]

Did eRod fall off a cliff or just momentarily climb a mountain ?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Did eRod fall off a cliff or just momentarily climb a mountain ?

ERod was like those tourists who get halfway up Everest thanks to some luck and the sherpas and then realize they're about 10,000 feet out of their comfort zone.

 

[SEALBound]

Did eRod fall off a cliff or just momentarily climb a mountain ?

Somewhere in between. Once everyone was healthy he was no longer a top 6 center with top 6 wing linemates. Shocker that you take someone out of a top 6 six and they no longer perform in the top 6. That said, yes he did play with Sid and Geno for stretches but that's not an automatic production indicator. ERod benefited most when he played his own style and the line worked together to support everyone, not necessarily a line driven by Sid or Geno in which the goal is to support them. I think his shooting % also took a shit too so...there were a number of issues.

If you can get him back at 1x1, it's a no-brainer to do it. I think he'll want a raise though and he'll likely get one by someone that likes the versatility if nothing else.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm really not trying to take a dump on ERod here. Like I said earlier I'd actually prefer him over some guys that will likely be on the roster next season (weird how maybe it's a good idea not to sign borderline-retirees in the middle of a season and instead evaluate at the end of the year held up against other available options that could fill a similar role... but that's a whole other rant). But I think it's pretty obvious that a guy pushing 30 didn't find some new level. Much like Dupuis back in the day... and Dupuis was a better player.

Think it's all a matter of opportunity, water eventually finding it's level and yes... a softer schedule at the top of the season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Did eRod fall off a cliff or just momentarily climb a mountain ?

I mean that's kind of the thing. It's not that E-Rod slumped in the second half, it's that he basically returned to the player he's always been.

He had about a 35 game stretch where everything went right for him. Outside of that, he was the same E-Rod he's always been.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Bottom 6 players are inconsistent which is why they mainly stay there/don’t get big contracts.

Unless it’s a really young player with good potential or a decent C bottom 6 players should only be signed 1-2 years. That helps the cap and more chances of hitting a potential top 6 player to sign longer term.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It should be the end of the Sully era.

But those first round exits were obviously a fluke.

I mean that's kind of the thing. It's not that E-Rod slumped in the second half, it's that he basically returned to the player he's always been.

He had about a 35 game stretch where everything went right for him. Outside of that, he was the same E-Rod he's always been.

The worry is they sign him based on the first 34 games vs the 40+ of what he normally is after those 34.

I'd frankly move on from Rodrigues.

 

[Peat]

Bottom 6 players are inconsistent which is why they mainly stay there/don’t get big contracts.

Unless it’s a really young player with good potential or a decent C bottom 6 players should only be signed 1-2 years. That helps the cap and more chances of hitting a potential top 6 player to sign longer term.

I think the NHL's economics have changed there. Lot of bottom sixers on 3-5 years at reasonable hits; you want the guy for less years, the cap goes up,

 

[DesertedPenguin]

A thought exercise...

We know Hextall plays things close to the vest. We know that FSG wants to compete and that a rebuild isn't happening. You don't re-sign Rust if you're going to blow it up.

But what if the idea is to let Malkin and Letang walk after receiving token offers so that the Pens can swing big elsewhere?

Malkin even kind of suggested he knows the Pens may want to get younger.

So, if the Pens move on from Malkin and Letang, what would the corresponding move look like? Do they jump into the Johnny Gaudreau sweepstakes? Do they try to pry Pasternak away from Boston? See if Toronto is moving Nylander?

I have a feeling Malkin/Letang are Option A, but I can't help but wonder what Option B would look like.

 

[Andy99]

A thought exercise...

We know Hextall plays things close to the vest. We know that FSG wants to compete and that a rebuild isn't happening. You don't re-sign Rust if you're going to blow it up.

But what if the idea is to let Malkin and Letang walk after receiving token offers so that the Pens can swing big elsewhere?

Malkin even kind of suggested he knows the Pens may want to get younger.

So, if the Pens move on from Malkin and Letang, what would the corresponding move look like? Do they jump into the Johnny Gaudreau sweepstakes? Do they try to pry Pasternak away from Boston? See if Toronto is moving Nylander?

I have a feeling Malkin/Letang are Option A, but I can't help but wonder what Option B would look like.

Well Option B should not be going after a midget winger who was being booed out of Calgary until he put together a career year surprisingly in a contract season…or any winger for that matter…we need a center who can play in the top six first and foremost , then a top two D man, then a 1 B goalie….see what Im saying…unless we’re getting Patrick Kane or Kucherov at 50% retained we should be looking for other positions first

 

[wheelz87]

A thought exercise...

We know Hextall plays things close to the vest. We know that FSG wants to compete and that a rebuild isn't happening. You don't re-sign Rust if you're going to blow it up.

But what if the idea is to let Malkin and Letang walk after receiving token offers so that the Pens can swing big elsewhere?

Malkin even kind of suggested he knows the Pens may want to get younger.

So, if the Pens move on from Malkin and Letang, what would the corresponding move look like? Do they jump into the Johnny Gaudreau sweepstakes? Do they try to pry Pasternak away from Boston? See if Toronto is moving Nylander?

I have a feeling Malkin/Letang are Option A, but I can't help but wonder what Option B would look like.

Hoping we don’t see teddy b center pastrnak

We’re fine on wing. Hopefully raks comes back. Moving on from Letang would be waiving the white flag so hopefully that doesn’t happen.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Well Option B should not be going after a midget winger who was being booed out of Calgary until he put together a career year surprisingly in a contract season…or any winger for that matter…we need a center who can play in the top six first and foremost , then a top two D man, then a 1 B goalie….see what Im saying…unless we’re getting Patrick Kane or Kucherov at 50% retained we should be looking for other positions first

You really want to look down your nose at a 28-year-old point per game player?

If you get an elite winger, you can go the less expensive route at 2C.

This is a cap compliant roster with $376,000 in cap space. You can tweak it if guys get less or more AAV.

23

$82,500,000

$82,123,334

$0

$215,000

$376,666

Roster​

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Guentzel, Jake $6,000,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2	Crosby, Sidney $8,700,000 C NMC UFA - 3	Rakell, Rickard $5,200,000 RW, LW UFA
Gaudreau, Johnny $9,500,000 LW UFA	Paul, Nicholas $4,000,000 C, LW UFA	Rust, Bryan $5,125,000 RW, LW NMC UFA - 6
Zucker, Jason $5,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1	Carter, Jeff $3,125,000 C, RW NMC UFA - 2	Puustinen, Valtteri $842,500 LW RFA - 1
O'Connor, Drew $750,000 LW RFA - 1	Blueger, Teddy $2,200,000 C, LW UFA - 1	McGinn, Brock $2,750,000 LW, RW UFA - 3
Zohorna, Radim $750,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Hållander, Filip $764,167 C RFA - 1
Roster created at CapFriendly.com | Follow on Twitter @CapFriendly

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Matheson, Michael $4,875,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 4	Manson, Josh $4,500,000 RD UFA	Jarry, Tristan $3,500,000 G UFA - 1
Dumoulin, Brian $4,100,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 1	Marino, John $4,400,000 RD UFA - 5	Comrie, Eric $1,250,000 G UFA
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier $800,000 LD RFA	Ruhwedel, Chad $800,000 RD UFA - 2
Friedman, Mark $775,000 LD/RD UFA - 2

 

[Andy99]

You really want to look down your nose at a 28-year-old point per game player?

If you get an elite winger, you can go the less expensive route at 2C.

This is a cap compliant roster with $376,000 in cap space. You can tweak it if guys get less or more AAV.

23

$82,500,000

$82,123,334

$0

$215,000

$376,666

Roster​

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Guentzel, Jake $6,000,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2	Crosby, Sidney $8,700,000 C NMC UFA - 3	Rakell, Rickard $5,200,000 RW, LW UFA
Gaudreau, Johnny $9,500,000 LW UFA	Paul, Nicholas $4,000,000 C, LW UFA	Rust, Bryan $5,125,000 RW, LW NMC UFA - 6
Zucker, Jason $5,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1	Carter, Jeff $3,125,000 C, RW NMC UFA - 2	Puustinen, Valtteri $842,500 LW RFA - 1
O'Connor, Drew $750,000 LW RFA - 1	Blueger, Teddy $2,200,000 C, LW UFA - 1	McGinn, Brock $2,750,000 LW, RW UFA - 3
Zohorna, Radim $750,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Hållander, Filip $764,167 C RFA - 1
Roster created at CapFriendly.com | Follow on Twitter @CapFriendly

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Matheson, Michael $4,875,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 4	Manson, Josh $4,500,000 RD UFA	Jarry, Tristan $3,500,000 G UFA - 1
Dumoulin, Brian $4,100,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 1	Marino, John $4,400,000 RD UFA - 5	Comrie, Eric $1,250,000 G UFA
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier $800,000 LD RFA	Ruhwedel, Chad $800,000 RD UFA - 2
Friedman, Mark $775,000 LD/RD UFA - 2

Im not a big Gaudreau fan and do not want to spend the money he’ll be asking…I’d prefer Pasta or Nylander to him honestly …getting a star winger and a lesser 2C is fine if and only if that winger is a playmaker who’s strength is carrying the puck into the zone…that’s why I threw out the names Kane and Kucherov…I don’t think that winger is Gaudreau

 

[ChaosAgent]

A thought exercise...

We know Hextall plays things close to the vest. We know that FSG wants to compete and that a rebuild isn't happening. You don't re-sign Rust if you're going to blow it up.

But what if the idea is to let Malkin and Letang walk after receiving token offers so that the Pens can swing big elsewhere?

Malkin even kind of suggested he knows the Pens may want to get younger.

So, if the Pens move on from Malkin and Letang, what would the corresponding move look like? Do they jump into the Johnny Gaudreau sweepstakes? Do they try to pry Pasternak away from Boston? See if Toronto is moving Nylander?

I have a feeling Malkin/Letang are Option A, but I can't help but wonder what Option B would look like.

Option B with Malkin is signing a Trocheck or someone of that ilk and basically leaning into the identity the Penguins have followed when they've had success in the Regular Season the last 3 years:
The Sid line produces
Sully falls in love with a checking line
Our middle six plays uninspired stalemate hockey and chips in here and there

I can see it working at least in the RS at even-strength. But I have no idea how our powerplay would function. Sid is much better at ES and Guentzel, our other best ES forward, frankly doesn't know what he's doing on the PP.

Option B with Letang is going by-committee and getting a Petry, a Manson, etc. Probably means holding onto Dumo too. I'm VERY VERY dubious that a Penguins defense without Letang works anymore, but here's hoping we don't see that plan B coming to pass.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think the NHL's economics have changed there. Lot of bottom sixers on 3-5 years at reasonable hits; you want the guy for less years, the cap goes up,

That’s more a personal philosophy and how I’d like a Pens GM to be.

Don’t be afraid of walking away from a bottom 6 player. They’re easier to find and a good mix of trade, draftees & UFA’s can potentially keep the bottom 6 $$$ lower so we can spend more on the high end positions.

 

[ChaosAgent]

That’s more a personal philosophy and how I’d like a Pens GM to be.

Don’t be afraid of walking away from a bottom 6 player. They’re easier to find and a good mix of trade, draftees & UFA’s can potentially keep the bottom 6 $$$ lower so we can spend more on the high end positions.

You have 20 spots in the lineup and you should allocate 5+ to be dirt cheap. The line between a dirt cheap player and a 31 year old version of a dirt cheap player doesn't exist but the 31 year old makes $1M more.

It's like if I was budgeting my 14 meals for the week and I had $150. Say I'm a 24-year old bachelor again. My 5 cheap meals aren't gonna be a f****g McDonald's meal for $8 (5% of my cap). My 5 cheap meals are gonna be frigging Ramen and frozen veggies for $1 (<1% of my cap).

 

[Gurglesons]

A thought exercise...

We know Hextall plays things close to the vest. We know that FSG wants to compete and that a rebuild isn't happening. You don't re-sign Rust if you're going to blow it up.

But what if the idea is to let Malkin and Letang walk after receiving token offers so that the Pens can swing big elsewhere?

Malkin even kind of suggested he knows the Pens may want to get younger.

So, if the Pens move on from Malkin and Letang, what would the corresponding move look like? Do they jump into the Johnny Gaudreau sweepstakes? Do they try to pry Pasternak away from Boston? See if Toronto is moving Nylander?

I have a feeling Malkin/Letang are Option A, but I can't help but wonder what Option B would look like.

To be honest I’d target players from teams trying to lose cap and see if we can do short term swaps. Couture for Zucker +. Will Karlsson for a player like Blueger. Etc.

On D bring in a Petry or Burns for cheap or target a young one on the outs like Hague or potentially Weegar.

 

[Tom Hanks]

You have 20 spots in the lineup and you should allocate 5+ to be dirt cheap. The line between a dirt cheap player and a 31 year old version of a dirt cheap player doesn't exist but the 31 year old makes $1M more.

It's like if I was budgeting my 14 meals for the week and I had $150. Say I'm a 24-year old bachelor again. My 5 cheap meals aren't gonna be a f****g McDonald's meal for $8 (5% of my cap). My 5 cheap meals are gonna be frigging Ramen and frozen veggies for $1 (<1% of my cap).

Ramen & frozen veggies. That was the house’s dinner when me & boys finished our road trip of the East Coast and finished in Banff.

We had money for accommodation & more importantly beer though . We didn’t eat properly until we got jobs but that was pretty quick turnaround.