Salary Cap: Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Kasperi kapanen]

So out of curiosity, what would you consider as a good but realistic enough trade that you would let Murray go for? It's fairly easy to identify what teams wouldn't need an elite #1 goalie, and others that would.

Dallas would probably offer the #3 pick. Calgary it would have to be either Tkatchuk/Brodie/Hamilton. Winnipeg Trouba/Connor. Basically it would take a young top4 dman on the verge of becoming a top2 (Trouba).

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Dallas would probably offer the #3 pick. Calgary it would have to be either Tkatchuk/Brodie/Hamilton. Winnipeg Trouba/Connor. Basically it would take a young top4 dman on the verge of becoming a top2 (Trouba).

And that's what makes it tough. Imagine adding any of those players to this team. Would be ridiculous.

If Fleury can remain at this level, and Jarry pans out...it'd be tough not to add one of those guys (or someone else on their level). But also wouldn't want to see Murray dominate the league for the next 10 years in a different uniform.

 

[Pens x]

I remember when people were offering Duchene(and many other great players) for Maatta and every pens fan said he was untouchable. Understandable after his rookie season but now look at where we are with him. Not saying Murray will head down the same path but these injuries are a Lil concerning.

Murray already won a cup and looks like he could be a top goalie in this league for years. But what happens if he gets injured a few more times? I don't think its as easy of a decision for our FO as people think. Considering what Fleury is doing , and the fact we have Jarry as well. Murray is already a fan favorite and I'd hate to lose him, but him taking a few steps back because of injuries would be even worse. Knowing what we could get for him right now. Remember when Bennett was untouchable? Despres? Something to think about.

I never understood the obsession with Bennett. I don't think that is a fair comparison though. Murray has proven himself in the Stanley Cup. Bennett played in 60-some games last year and everyone is jumping for joy.

But MM's injuries are definitely concerning. This is a tough situation. It is completely unexpected that Fleury would be playing this well.

 

[Peat]

I remember when people were offering Duchene(and many other great players) for Maatta and every pens fan said he was untouchable. Understandable after his rookie season but now look at where we are with him. Not saying Murray will head down the same path but these injuries are a Lil concerning.

Murray already won a cup and looks like he could be a top goalie in this league for years. But what happens if he gets injured a few more times? I don't think its as easy of a decision for our FO as people think. Considering what Fleury is doing , and the fact we have Jarry as well. Murray is already a fan favorite and I'd hate to lose him, but him taking a few steps back because of injuries would be even worse. Knowing what we could get for him right now. Remember when Bennett was untouchable? Despres? Something to think about.

We could get Duchene and he could get rammed into the boards first game. You can't plan around random big injuries so you shouldn't.

I guess you look at Murray and starting asking whether he'll have a pattern of injuries but one concussion, one heavy one to the hand and one groin issue doesn't sound much of a pattern to me.

For me, the issue isn't whether I think Murray is injury prone or what. Its whether I think MAF could do this again and again. If the answer is yes he can, then I'd totally be up for shopping Murray if if it was bringing back something cool like Hanifin. If the answer is no, this is a swansong special, then I don't think there's anything on offer that makes me do it. Like, I guess I do Murray for Werenski? Nobody offers that though.

And I simply don't know the answer to whether MAF is cured of play off demons or not.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

We could get Duchene and he could get rammed into the boards first game. You can't plan around random big injuries so you shouldn't.

I guess you look at Murray and starting asking whether he'll have a pattern of injuries but one concussion, one heavy one to the hand and one groin issue doesn't sound much of a pattern to me.

For me, the issue isn't whether I think Murray is injury prone or what. Its whether I think MAF could do this again and again. If the answer is yes he can, then I'd totally be up for shopping Murray if if it was bringing back something cool like Hanifin. If the answer is no, this is a swansong special, then I don't think there's anything on offer that makes me do it. Like, I guess I do Murray for Werenski? Nobody offers that though.

And I simply don't know the answer to whether MAF is cured of play off demons or not.

Yeah there are a lot of variables that's what makes it a tough decision. As for fleury, I do think he will be fine going forward, but we also have Jarry. That's what makes trading Murray even a thought. Without Jarry I don't consider it.

 

[zero8771]

Goalies are typically worth much less than a top 2 defensemen. If we coukd track Murray for one thats hard not to consider. Really depends on how you project Murray.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah there are a lot of variables that's what makes it a tough decision. As for fleury, I do think he will be fine going forward, but we also have Jarry. That's what makes trading Murray even a thought. Without Jarry I don't consider it.

It's not a tough decision at all. Goalies don't typically bring the market value you'd hope for, and especially not when everyone knows we need to get rid of one of our goalies. That kills both Maf and Murray's value.

So...you go with the young goalie. It's lunacy to want the goalie in his 30s over the one in his early 20s, especially when by every objective metric the young goalie has outperformed the older one.

Maf is having a hell of a run and I'm proud of him, but 8 strong games don't suddenly make him more valuable than Murray to this franchise.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dallas would probably offer the #3 pick. Calgary it would have to be either Tkatchuk/Brodie/Hamilton. Winnipeg Trouba/Connor. Basically it would take a young top4 dman on the verge of becoming a top2 (Trouba).

Dallas 3rd overall - No thanks. Murray is already a solid #1 and is a proven playoff winner with a Cup ring. I would want more than just that 3rd overall pick.

Flames Tkachuk/Brodie/Hamilton - This is intriguing, the Pens would really have to be dead set on Fleury/Jarry as the tandem net year and out of those 3, I think I would maybe go after Brodie.

Winnipeg Trouba/Connor - I don't know about Trouba, he has 1yr left on his deal and he's been reportedly wanting some insane contract, Connor intrigues me, I am surprised he didn't make the Jets right away and spent time in the AHL and his time in the NHL wasn't all that memorable, so I don't know if I would give up Murray for an unproven commodity like Connor, I'd probably want something added there or even both for Murray to be honest, is that valuing Murray high? You bet your ass.

With that said, I still move Fleury, he's playing Conn Smythe level hockey right now and if he carries this team to another cup, you guys better believe the Pens can get a damn good return for him and we don't need to lose Murray for that at all.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Goalies are typically worth much less than a top 2 defensemen. If we coukd track Murray for one thats hard not to consider. Really depends on how you project Murray.

It depend on where you put Murray in all of this, he has played like a top 10 goalie all season long and in the playoffs he was a top 5. He's only 22yrs old and signed to a good deal, there are a lot of teams that were done in because of terrible goaltending this year with teams like the Flames, Flyers, Jets, etc etc...

Maybe Murray's value is a little tough to figure out, but the goalie market has never had a goalie like Murray traded, it was usually a back-up that was traded for a pick or something and given a shot or an impending UFA.

There hasn't been a 22yr old #1 that was solid in the playoffs and won the cup.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

good but realistic enough trade that you would let Murray go for?

I believe when it comes to goalies those two (good but realistic) don't come together. I think we can easily get a fantatic deal from a goalie-trading perspective, but it would still be underwhelming considering what we would give up.

 

[Shrimper]

I wouldn't trade Murray unless we got some really crazy deal that makes us better in all aspects. Fleury has done incredible for us this year in the play offs but Murray is the future and Jarry is untested. What if Fleury has another poor regular season and Jarry isn't able to take control like Murray did?

 

[Pens x]

It depend on where you put Murray in all of this, he has played like a top 10 goalie all season long and in the playoffs he was a top 5. He's only 22yrs old and signed to a good deal, there are a lot of teams that were done in because of terrible goaltending this year with teams like the Flames, Flyers, Jets, etc etc...

Maybe Murray's value is a little tough to figure out, but the goalie market has never had a goalie like Murray traded, it was usually a back-up that was traded for a pick or something and given a shot or an impending UFA.

There hasn't been a 22yr old #1 that was solid in the playoffs and won the cup.

Cam Talbot was traded for the 57th, 79th and 180 something pick.

Martin Jones was traded for a late 1st round pick.

Ben Bishop barely netted any decent player.

Scott Darling's rights for a 3rd rounder

Frederick Anderson was traded for a 1st round pick (pens' 30th overall) and a second round pick

The goalie market is not very lucrative. I think the best we could get is a mid 1st rounder. I know I know, Murray won a cup. But his injury problems might negate his Stanley Cup run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There isn't a return available that would make me agree to trading Murray. The return I'd want is someone like Hanifin, and defensemen usually have a lot higher values than goalies.

The goalie market is not very lucrative. I think the best we could get is a mid 1st rounder. I know I know, Murray won a cup. But his injury problems might negate his Stanley Cup run.

A. Schneider was traded for the 9th overall pick, I like how you ignored that.
B. To suggest that Murray has injury problems significant enough to impact his value is just comically dumb.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

With all this "Keep Fleury/Trade Murray" talk, I'm starting to miss "Till The End of time". We need him back to start roasting you guys

Even if Fleury wins the Cup, he has to go.

 

[Riptide]

Just throwing an idea out there, not necessarily advocating it. Would you do Duchene for Murray straight up if Flower continues his play through the rest of the playoffs? I would seriously consider it I must say if Flower keeps it up. He would fit this team perfectly and could play anywhere from wing on the top-2 lines or 3rd line C.

Several things.

A) I absolutely love the idea of getting a "#3C" of Duchene's caliber. Expensive yes (both in cap and in cost to acquire), but someone like him would absolutely change our offense from something very good to something down right scary. We would truly (for a couple years anyway) have three 1st lines.

B) I love how MAF is playing and how he has played in the playoffs over the last 4 playoffs going back to 13/14. Nothing earth shattering, but 15-13, .923 and 2.38 over 29 games is easily good enough to win. Murray's by comparison is 15-6, .923, 2.08.

That said, I would not do this trade. I think that we could find another way to get Duchene if that's really the direction we wanted to go in, or that we could find other half decent players to be a #3C who wouldn't cost us Matt Murray. On top of that, despite how good MAF has been for us this year and that I think he could easily be this good in the future, I think for him and for this team, it would probably be best of everyone moved on. No more worries about what happens to him mentally if he gives up a weak goal. He's been good to great for us (looking at more than these playoffs), but I just think it's time to move on.

In addition to that, you're talking about trading a 22 year old #1 goalie. We have at most a 5-6 year window where we will truly be one of the top teams in the league. Maybe another year or two if we're extremely lucky and everyone ages well. Murray over that span should only get better. MAF over that span will realistically get worse at some point. Sure we have Jarry and the guy we drafted last year and will likely draft more. But there's no guarantee that any will be #1s.

So I'd much rather stick with the sure thing (Murray) and just deal with trading MAF (or losing him to the ED) and then seeing what we can do about a #3C.

 

[Shrimper]

If Bonino costs too much then I want to see us go for Thornton on a 1 year deal.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

If Bonino costs too much then I want to see us go for Thornton on a 1 year deal.

Depends. If we do win the cup again this year I can't see him coming here for a 1 year deal. Back to back cups are hard enough, so a 3peat? If we don't win it all, then maybe he would.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Where does Pouliot fit in going forward?

 

[Asuna]

Where does Pouliot fit in going forward?

on another team

 

[BetterCallSaul]

If Bonino costs too much then I want to see us go for Thornton on a 1 year deal.

I would give Thornton even a 2 year deal. I guess we're loosing Cullen anyway. Depending on Bonino, Joe could lead our 3rd or 4th line as C, while beeing the 2nd line PP C. But I'm pretty sure there will be a few teams throwing good money at him. So lets hope he wants to chase a cup with us, otherwise I don't see it happening.

 

[Shrimper]

I would give Thornton even a 2 year deal. I guess we're loosing Cullen anyway. Depending on Bonino, Joe could lead our 3rd or 4th line as C, while beeing the 2nd line PP C. But I'm pretty sure there will be a few teams throwing good money at him. So lets hope he wants to chase a cup with us, otherwise I don't see it happening.

My thinking is that by giving the above to him he would be just as effective. It would give us a bit more of a punch on the 3rd line too. With Sundqvist not being ready for a 3C role yet and the options not great, he could be a good stop gap as well.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Wonder if there would be a way to pry Cogliano out of Anaheim.

 

[Gurglesons]

My thinking is that by giving the above to him he would be just as effective. It would give us a bit more of a punch on the 3rd line too. With Sundqvist not being ready for a 3C role yet and the options not great, he could be a good stop gap as well.

If we get Thornton, we are instantly Cup favorites. You can lose one of Malkin or Crosby and have a center that is just as good. You can run three lines like..

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Sheary - Malkin - Rust
Wilson - Thornton - Kessel

That's just insane forward depth in this era and that's why Jumbo Joe would come here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wonder if there would be a way to pry Cogliano out of Anaheim.

No way. Dude is why they moved Palms.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

If we get Thornton, we are instantly Cup favorites. You can lose one of Malkin or Crosby and have a center that is just as good. You can run three lines like..

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Sheary - Malkin - Rust
Wilson - Thornton - Kessel

That's just insane forward depth in this era and that's why Jumbo Joe would come here.

Wilson?