Proposal: Penguins deadline retool (Detroit, New Jersey and Edmonton)

[biturbo19]

I don't really see the Wings dealing for a "rental" like that. Not at that kind of value. Unless they're supremely confident they'll be able to get Guentzel signed to an extension that makes sense.

I also don't really like the idea of Ned going to Edmonton. He's not that far removed from being absolute waiver fodder and Edmonton isn't exactly known for being a great spot for goaltenders to go and thrive. I think there's a high "bust" potential with a guy like Ned going there and turning back into a useless pumpkin.

The Pettersson deal...seems like for Pittsburgh to me. Would be a huge add for the Devils. But i'm not really very high on Bahl. I think he's got a pretty low ceiling. I get the appeal of getting a young "now" player as part of a retool, but i'd be looking elsewhere for someone that i actually like better, personally.

 

[stewy04]

As an Oiler fan that's very fair. Wait what? Positivity on the mains! Not sure if that would be my first trade choice but fair!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really see the Wings dealing for a "rental" like that. Not at that kind of value. Unless they're supremely confident they'll be able to get Guentzel signed to an extension that makes sense.

I also don't really like the idea of Ned going to Edmonton. He's not that far removed from being absolute waiver fodder and Edmonton isn't exactly known for being a great spot for goaltenders to go and thrive. I think there's a high "bust" potential with a guy like Ned going there and turning back into a useless pumpkin.

The Pettersson deal...seems like for Pittsburgh to me. Would be a huge add for the Devils. But i'm not really very high on Bahl. I think he's got a pretty low ceiling. I get the appeal of getting a young "now" player as part of a retool, but i'd be looking elsewhere for someone that i actually like better, personally.

I think goaltending is so voodoo that you basically bite the bullet on trading for someone playing well like Nedjelkovic and just hope his play continues. The mistakes come when you give guys like Nedjelkovic 3 year deals, not necessarily with acquiring them as rentals.

I think the Wings deal is largely dependent on being able to re-sign Guentzel, so that is a fair point. I think that value is a bit more than what Horvat was traded for last year, I like Raty more than either Buium or Berggren but both combined have more value. Considering Horvat came with a deal, I'd guess that the Wings deal would only be workable if Guentzel was also coming signed.

With the Devils deal, I think Bahl doesn't have the upside close to Pettersson but he's serviceable now and can play NHL minutes. I really like what I've read/seen from Hameenaho, I think he's the real headliner of that deal. I think what hurts Pettersson's value is that he's not really the type of player that teams pay out for. I think you can easily say that return looks light, but I think guys like Pettersson are very commonly traded for "light" returns.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Then he won't get him. Someone is going to give up a first for him.

ok. Wings fans aren't the ones banging down the door for him. We'd trade for Guentzel at a great price or he goes elsewhere.

 

[Empoleon8771]

ok. Wings fans aren't the ones banging down the door for him. We'd trade for Guentzel at a great price or he goes elsewhere.

The proposal I made in the OP came from a different Guentzel thread and it was made by a Wings fan.

I do think this deal would require a Guentzel extension with Detroit to be workable, because it is rich to pay out for a rental even of Guentzel's caliber.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We arent talking an ingrown nail injury. He's out for 4+ weeks. Out that long is serious.

Cool and you aren't a GM and neither am I, but if there's teams calling about him then there's interest in him regardless of what you feel is a serious injury or not.

According to Pagnotta, the Edmonton Oilers, Vancouver Canucks, Colorado Avalanche, Carolina Hurricanes, Vegas Golden Knights, and the Detroit Red Wings have all expressed interest.

That’s a great deal of teams to want a piece of Guentzel, but that shows the kind of status he carries at this deadline. Teams know what Guentzel can bring offensively and how he can help a contending team fight for a championship.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/multiple-teams-calling-pittsburgh-penguins-jake-guentzel-trade

1. Jake Guentzel, LW - Pittsburgh Penguins​

As TFP’s David Pagnotta first reported, Jake Guentzel is not expected to address his expiring contract until after the season. Guentzel’s agent Ben Hankinson later confirmed that they are likely to wait to see the direction of the team. Penguins GM Kyle Dubas recently ackwnoledged his team needs to get younger, and we know Guentzel doesn’t want to go through a rebuild. He’s on track to return next month after the deadline, and teams are going to push.

TEAMS REPORTEDLY LINKED:​

Edmonton, Vancouver, Colorado, Carolina, Vegas, Detroit

Trade Watch 2024 — The Fourth Period

Trade Watch List 2024: The top players believed to be available ahead of the 2024 Trade Deadline.

www.thefourthperiod.com

Also there's this.

If teams are allowed to try to extend Guentzel before a trade, that hurts Edmonton. They can’t do it. The Oilers are also very aware that for every dollar that comes in, someone needs to go out. So, they are doing legwork in several different directions.

32 Thoughts: Will Kyle Dubas shake up the Pittsburgh Penguins?

In his latest collection of thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about Kyle Dubas' delicate balancing act with the Penguins, takes a look around the trade market, and wonders if 70 goals would clinch the Hart Trophy for Auston Matthews.

www.sportsnet.ca

Whether they are gathering info about his injury to gauge interest or not, there's interest either way and everyone in those circles is well aware he's injured at the moment. So you needn't worry about Jake, the Oilers proposal was awful to begin with and I don't see the Pens doing any deal involving Jake with the Oilers, so that's that.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I think we should really consider this deal if it was real, and if we can find the cap space. 2.5M next year doesn't hinder us much, and 2.5M isn't a bad deal for a middle six scorer. If we can get the money to work, it might make sense, but we don't have the space to add him, and I wouldn't move a depth veteran contract like Kulak or Foegele just to make room for Reilly Smith this playoffs.

That's where I'm at. Yes a veteran middle 6 winger with playoff experience is a great add, but at what hit to the lineup. I'd also rather sign Foegele this off season vs knowing he's gone 100% as a cap casualty and Smith is here.

If Edmonton had an abundance of cap I'd say the OP hit the value on the mark. We don't now and even worse moving forward. 100% no interest.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Trade 1:

Penguins trade Guentzel (retain 50%)
Wings trade Berggren, Buium and a 2024 1st

The Penguins get a young NHL ready winger, a good B level D prospect and a 1st likely around 20th overall. Wings get a top line rental LWer.

Trade 2:

Penguins trade Pettersson
Devils trade Bahl, Hameenaho and a 2025 2nd

Similar to the Wings trade, the Penguins get a young NHL ready defenseman, a good B level RW prospect and a 2025 2nd to close out the value. New Jersey gets a borderline 1st/2nd pair LD signed for this year and next year. I would have preferred a 2024 2nd but New Jersey already traded that pick.

Trade 3:

Penguins trade Smith (retain 50%) and Nedjelkovic
Oilers trade their 2024 2nd and 2025 3rd

The Oilers get a good middle-6 winger at $2.5 million for this year and next year along with a good backup goalie option for Skinner. Penguins get some additional draft picks.

Thoughts on these deals?

I don't think the Red wings are doing that, I think they are a year or 2 away from trading 1st round picks.

I think you need to see if this is real first.

Can you maintain and build upon this breakout next year?

OR are you the Devils where you breakout and then the next year fall right back down?

That question needs to be answered before they start trading 1sts.

I think he ends up in Edmonton on Mcdavid wing or Colorado

 

[biturbo19]

I think goaltending is so voodoo that you basically bite the bullet on trading for someone playing well like Nedjelkovic and just hope his play continues. The mistakes come when you give guys like Nedjelkovic 3 year deals, not necessarily with acquiring them as rentals.

I think the Wings deal is largely dependent on being able to re-sign Guentzel, so that is a fair point. I think that value is a bit more than what Horvat was traded for last year, I like Raty more than either Buium or Berggren but both combined have more value. Considering Horvat came with a deal, I'd guess that the Wings deal would only be workable if Guentzel was also coming signed.

With the Devils deal, I think Bahl doesn't have the upside close to Pettersson but he's serviceable now and can play NHL minutes. I really like what I've read/seen from Hameenaho, I think he's the real headliner of that deal. I think what hurts Pettersson's value is that he's not really the type of player that teams pay out for. I think you can easily say that return looks light, but I think guys like Pettersson are very commonly traded for "light" returns.

I'd just argue that part of why goaltending is such "voodoo" is specifical because a lot of people don't really look into nuance and context there. When it comes to prospects? Sure, it's a total crapshoot. But at the NHL level...contextual factors explain a ton of that wild variance.

Which is where...i'd bet heavily on Nedjelkovic being an absolute disaster flop in Edmonton.


As to the Pettersson thing, i think that in a lot of years past, you'd be right. More "stay-at-home" defensive types don't always get paid, or traded for the same sort of return as the flashier, point-producing types. But i think things have really started to noticeably shift the other direct lately. There are just so many teams desperate for steady, stable, defensive-minded defencemen like Pettersson. I think that package is just selling him real short. Though maybe that depends on just exactly how high you are on Hameenaho. To me, he's a kind of "potential Hornqvist" type. Which would be worth quite a bit if he hits, but it's not a guarantee either and i think the "ceiling" is a bit lower with him. But obviously...mileage may vary.

 

[Ignatius]

If anyone wants Jarry I would be happy to drive him to the airport for you.

 

[The Old Master]

I'd just argue that part of why goaltending is such "voodoo" is specifical because a lot of people don't really look into nuance and context there. When it comes to prospects? Sure, it's a total crapshoot. But at the NHL level...contextual factors explain a ton of that wild variance.

Which is where...i'd bet heavily on Nedjelkovic being an absolute disaster flop in Edmonton.

this might come as a shock, but Edmonton defense is actually better than pgh. so he might actually do better than he does here.

 

[Shoofyou10]

If anyone wants Jarry I would be happy to drive him to the airport for you.

He’s struggled in the playoffs but he’s a career .914 save percentage in almost 250 games played and this season he’s .916. You for sure can win with him as your goalie. And he’s .916 this season. Why would you be so quick to part with that?

Guentzel can come off IR on March 10th. He‘s not out super long term

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

I'm not refering to buffalo acquiring him.
.an injured player uncertain of return us ghb going to get back heavily contingent on his vnn dressing and playing games.

Where in the hell are you getting “uncertain to return”? Every report says he’s back in a week or two.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

this might come as a shock, but Edmonton defense is actually better than pgh. so he might actually do better than he does here.

What stats are you looking at to determine that?

 

[Smitty426]

I think goaltending is so voodoo that you basically bite the bullet on trading for someone playing well like Nedjelkovic and just hope his play continues. The mistakes come when you give guys like Nedjelkovic 3 year deals, not necessarily with acquiring them as rentals.

I'm a fan of this thinking

 

[Billdo]

Trade 1:

Penguins trade Guentzel (retain 50%)
Wings trade Berggren, Buium and a 2024 1st

The Penguins get a young NHL ready winger, a good B level D prospect and a 1st likely around 20th overall. Wings get a top line rental LWer.

Trade 2:

Penguins trade Pettersson
Devils trade Bahl, Hameenaho and a 2025 2nd

Similar to the Wings trade, the Penguins get a young NHL ready defenseman, a good B level RW prospect and a 2025 2nd to close out the value. New Jersey gets a borderline 1st/2nd pair LD signed for this year and next year. I would have preferred a 2024 2nd but New Jersey already traded that pick.

Trade 3:

Penguins trade Smith (retain 50%) and Nedjelkovic
Oilers trade their 2024 2nd and 2025 3rd

The Oilers get a good middle-6 winger at $2.5 million for this year and next year along with a good backup goalie option for Skinner. Penguins get some additional draft picks.

Thoughts on these deals?

No from NJ

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

No from NJ

Pettersson is definitely a player the Devils should be interested in. He's a good defensive player who can play 20+ minutes in a game. He is also cheaper than Hanifin or other available LD's. He isn't a rental either.

Bahl hasn't been good outside of the last couple of weeks, and I'm not convinced Hämeenaho is as good as his reputation is among the fans.

 

[Smitty426]

No from NJ

The working pieces in a Petey to Jersey have been Bahl and a 1st

I'm not sure about Lenni's game so it would need some looking into.
I think there's enough here for at least a discussion.

 

[Ignatius]

He’s struggled in the playoffs but he’s a career .914 save percentage in almost 250 games played and this season he’s .916. You for sure can win with him as your goalie. And he’s .916 this season. Why would you be so quick to part with that?

Guentzel can come off IR on March 10th. He‘s not out super long term

Jarry's contract is a joke and he cannot be counted on to stay healthy and perform when it matters most. Elliott Friedman said today that Pittsburgh is actively shopping him because multiple teams have expressed interest. I would hang on to Ned and our goalie prospects for now and get rid of TJ.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Jarry's contract is a joke and he cannot be counted on to stay healthy and perform when it matters most. Elliott Friedman said today that Pittsburgh is actively shopping him because multiple teams have expressed interest. I would hang on to Ned and our goalie prospects for now and get rid of TJ.

I'm sure if Edmonton had the cap space they would be all over bringing Jarry in. But the only way to do that is to send Campbell out, and we all know that isn't happening at the moment.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry's contract is a joke and he cannot be counted on to stay healthy and perform when it matters most. Elliott Friedman said today that Pittsburgh is actively shopping him because multiple teams have expressed interest. I would hang on to Ned and our goalie prospects for now and get rid of TJ.

If multiple teams are interested in Jarry, how is his contract a joke? You're trying to say he's bad because Pittsburgh is shopping him, while immediately saying after that they're shopping him because other teams like him.

 

[Ignatius]

If multiple teams are interested in Jarry, how is his contract a joke? You're trying to say he's bad because Pittsburgh is shopping him, while immediately saying after that they're shopping him because other teams like him.

I would submit to you that he is expendable especially in light of his contract and track record of questionable health and performance concerns.

The reason why I think his contract is a joke is because it seemed like the front office gave it to him as if they were in a position of desperation.

 

[The Old Master]

He'll score five and then we'll bench him.

sully would have him out there shooting on an empty net

 

[Dr Awesome]

I don’t mind that deal for Oilers it’s decent. Although it would leave oilers with log jam in goaltender department.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Both Eichel and evander Kanr and 3× full years of contract term left post surgery

Guentzel as a UFA this summer Is not returning what they hope for with him still injured and uncertain on playing again this season

Any trade will be heavily contingent with picks unless he gets an extension with nee team.no team is trading a mid 1st+× for a player they never see play.

I could see teams target/pay up a guy they can leave on the shelf till the post season. There's some risk involved but this screams of a team like Vegas. Any team right up against it cap wise probably see this as a blessing.