Post-Game Talk: Penguins @ Capitals | 7:00PM EST | NBC / SportsNet

Status
Not open for further replies.

HTFN

Registered User
Feb 8, 2009
12,269
10,905
As a Pens fan I've seen a healthy share of him and I've never really considered Ovi dirty, I actually like him quite a lot and have defended him over the years. I've given Wilson the benefit of the doubt of "making mistakes" for quite a long time too, I just see some of his plays as more reckless, bordering on predatory.
The only difference, though, is that in Ovechkin's younger years people were still screaming "stop turning from hits", and now it just happens too often to make a note of it anymore. Now we talk about how players make "avoidable contact", there's even less responsibility with the player being hit. There is functionally no difference in the way they approached the physical element of the game, only the surroundings have changed.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
7,359
6,673
What's surprising about this? You can make Tom Wilson's big list of offenses, they're almost all hits within a few degrees of acceptable. There are a lot of them, because there are a lot of hits, but most of them hard and fast with a lot of moving parts.

What you don't see from Tom Wilson and do see from dirty players is a lot of excessive stick work, slewfoots, kicks, knees, etc. He's not a sucker puncher, he's a throwback, and hockey fans hate watching a guy like that they have no answer for. It feels so emasculating to them that they shriek about it now until the problem gets solved. They'd rather watch someone slashing people in and out of scrums and partially engaging like Tkachuk because they feel like if someone could get a hold of him they'd make him pay, and Tom Wilson isn't that guy either.

He got nothing but respect from league good guy Barry Trotz because, surprise, he's not a piece of shit but captain material. He's not a weasel who fractures locker rooms, he's a guy you win with. Moreover, he's a good example and not just someone you put up with. Some bad hits a year don't ou
tweigh that. You're allowed to love the physical game, you're allowed to love sports psychology and play the game within the game, but I've never gotten the impression from Wilson that he was bigger or more important than the team.

I think that's the easiest way to separate it, it took some landing on though. With the league's biggest shitbags, you get the distinct impression that their grudge is as important as the hockey game, and with Wilson it's almost always been abut his team and the hockey game.
While I do agree with your points that Wilson doesn't use too much excessive stickwork or slew-footing, I think the bold is kind of a stretch. Not exactly sure "emasculating" is what's happening, I think people just don't like seeing reckless players injure other guys with high hits, especially with all of the attention surrounding concussions these days. Playing recklessly is dirty, in my opinion, especially with the size and strength that Wilson has. As you said, it's possible to love the physical game, but guys still need to adjust their play when they're continually injuring opponents. I remember an old coach of mine saying "you want to hurt a guy, but not injure him". The issue with Wilson is that after so many hits that are "within a few degrees of acceptable" it makes it hard to give the benefit of the doubt that he's not intending to injure for a lot of people anymore.

I never said I thought Wilson's playstyle put him above the team or not a good leader, but as others have mentioned, Crosby is on the dirty side and I don't think his leadership qualities are too widely contested.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
While I do agree with your points that Wilson doesn't use too much excessive stickwork or slew-footing, I think the bold is kind of a stretch. Not exactly sure "emasculating" is what's happening, I think people just don't like seeing reckless players injure other guys with high hits, especially with all of the attention surrounding concussions these days. Playing recklessly is dirty, in my opinion, especially with the size and strength that Wilson has. As you said, it's possible to love the physical game, but guys still need to adjust their play when they're continually injuring opponents. I remember an old coach of mine saying "you want to hurt a guy, but not injure him". The issue with Wilson is that after so many hits that are "within a few degrees of acceptable" it makes it hard to give the benefit of the doubt that he's not intending to injure for a lot of people anymore.

I never said I thought Wilson's playstyle put him above the team or not a good leader, but as others have mentioned, Crosby is on the dirty side and I don't think his leadership qualities are too widely contested.

You are a Pens fan. Not a Caps fan. We love him. We like it that you hate him. Good night
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
7,359
6,673
You are a Pens fan. Not a Caps fan. We love him. We like it that you hate him. Good night
I don't hate him at all, I like tough players and have regularly defended Wilson to other Penguins fans. I just want him to play less recklessly so that on the plays where he does miss hits, and doesn't end up wiring someone's jaw shut, or putting someone out for long stretches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: max21

kicksavedave

I'm just here for the memes and gifs.
Sponsor
Apr 29, 2009
10,828
13,614
Fallbrook, CA
www.tiasarms.org
I don't hate him at all, I like tough players and have regularly defended Wilson to other Penguins fans. I just want him to play less recklessly so that on the plays where he does miss hits, and doesn't end up wiring someone's jaw shut, or putting someone out for long stretches.

If you haven't watched all his games then you could be forgiven for not noticing that's exactly what he's done. Since the ZAR hit in the playoffs then the hit on Sundquist where he got the 20 games, he hasn't been suspended once. He's changed his game considerably, hitting less, taking less risks. When he hits he still hits hard, but the hits (all four of them) that got him suspended, haven't been happening since 2018. It's been 3 years since he was last suspended.

Marchand is dirty. Wilson, WAS, reckless, but he isn't anymore.
 

Roshi

Registered User
Feb 7, 2013
1,995
1,969
Finland
Yeeeeah, really liked our game tonight. 5on5 was really good. Our PP almost killed us though, but reclamated.. why cant they just win this game without all the drama ffs.

Well atleast its 7-8 now vs the Pens, so theres hope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AussieCapsFan

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
26,871
25,354
District of Champions
You are a Pens fan. Not a Caps fan. We love him. We like it that you hate him. Good night

All posters are welcome if they abide by forum rules and aren't here to troll or flame. That said, there is very little benefit of the doubt given to fans of different teams so everyone please play nice. The report button is there for a reason if things get out line.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
26,871
25,354
District of Champions
I don't hate him at all, I like tough players and have regularly defended Wilson to other Penguins fans. I just want him to play less recklessly so that on the plays where he does miss hits, and doesn't end up wiring someone's jaw shut, or putting someone out for long stretches.
You shouldn't be allowed to be as big and strong as Wilson and also have the wheels that he does. He's a terrific skater with both great acceleration and straight line speed. When he's on, his style of play opens up the ice for everyone else on the team. Because he's so big, fast, and strong, hits that other players would throw with little no consequence can look much worse or have a bad outcome when Wilson does it. He's realized where the line is and changed his game a lot, which might not be noticeable to people who don't watch the Caps on a regular basis but it's true... but that doesn't mean he's not going to get close to the line from time to time. It's unavoidable when you play the way he does not to push the envelope.

That said, I can't count the number of times since his last incident when I saw what looked like a train wreck about to happen and Wilson pulled up or avoided contact completely. There will always be people who hate him because of the style he plays and it's real fun and easy to "herp derp Wilson is a goon what else is new" but he's an honest player who is unapologetic about understanding the value he brings to the team by the way he plays the game and we love him for it.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
7,359
6,673
If you haven't watched all his games then you could be forgiven for not noticing that's exactly what he's done. Since the ZAR hit in the playoffs then the hit on Sundquist where he got the 20 games, he hasn't been suspended once. He's changed his game considerably, hitting less, taking less risks. When he hits he still hits hard, but the hits (all four of them) that got him suspended, haven't been happening since 2018. It's been 3 years since he was last suspended.

Marchand is dirty. Wilson, WAS, reckless, but he isn't anymore.
You shouldn't be allowed to be as big and strong as Wilson and also have the wheels that he does. He's a terrific skater with both great acceleration and straight line speed. When he's on, his style of play opens up the ice for everyone else on the team. Because he's so big, fast, and strong, hits that other players would throw with little no consequence can look much worse or have a bad outcome when Wilson does it. He's realized where the line is and changed his game a lot, which might not be noticeable to people who don't watch the Caps on a regular basis but it's true... but that doesn't mean he's not going to get close to the line from time to time. It's unavoidable when you play the way he does not to push the envelope.

I can't count the number of times since his last incident when I saw what looked like a train wreck about to happen and Wilson pulled up or avoided contact completely.
I will have to take notice of Wilson pulling up on hits or avoiding unnecessary contact when watching him in the future. I understand that no guy can ever get his game to a point where he takes literally zero penalties, especially a hitter like Wilson. However, it’s just difficult to still give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. I’d imagine it’s akin to a Penguins fan trying to convince someone Cooke changed his game. Every hit will raise question marks simply on reputation alone. It’s somewhat unfair, but that’s the hole these kind of players dig themselves.
 

Ridley Simon

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 27, 2002
18,307
9,283
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
I will have to take notice of Wilson pulling up on hits or avoiding unnecessary contact when watching him in the future. I understand that no guy can ever get his game to a point where he takes literally zero penalties, especially a hitter like Wilson. However, it’s just difficult to still give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. I’d imagine it’s akin to a Penguins fan trying to convince someone Cooke changed his game. Every hit will raise question marks simply on reputation alone. It’s somewhat unfair, but that’s the hole these kind of players dig themselves.
It’s not akin to Cook at all. I understand your premise. But Cook knowingly did things outside the game to hurt people. (Elbows). Tom hit people that weren’t ready for it, which is part of what the game is *now* trying to remove. Elbows were never part of the game. Open ice hits (see Scott Stevens) were once “ok”. Now they aren’t.

same? Not same.

and the proof is in the pudding for Wilson. He has gotten into trouble. That’s proof enough as we all KNOW the DOPS is looking for it.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
7,359
6,673
It’s not akin to Cook at all. I understand your premise. But Cook knowingly did things outside the game to hurt people. (Elbows). Tom hit people that weren’t ready for it, which is part of what the game is *now* trying to remove. Elbows were never part of the game. Open ice hits (see Scott Stevens) were once “ok”. Now they aren’t.

same? Not same.

and the proof is in the pudding for Wilson. He has gotten into trouble. That’s proof enough as we all KNOW the DOPS is looking for it.
I didn’t mean to compare Cooke with Wilson as a player, Matt Cooke was way dirtier than anything that Tom Wilson exhibited. My point was just that he made a concerted effort to change the way that he played and I think he was successful at doing that. However, he was never going to get the benefit of the doubt from anyone outside of Pittsburgh due to his history and reputation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexBrovechkin8

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
All posters are welcome if they abide by forum rules and aren't here to troll or flame. That said, there is very little benefit of the doubt given to fans of different teams so everyone please play nice. The report button is there for a reason if things get out line.

Seriously? There was no need for that. Seems like I cant post here anymore without being flamed or admonished. That was not an attack. It was a basic statement. I am going back to reading and not writing.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
26,871
25,354
District of Champions
Seriously? There was no need for that. Seems like I cant post here anymore without being flamed or admonished. That was not an attack. It was a basic statement. I am going back to reading and not writing.

I dunno why you're feeling personally attacked but that wasn't my intention, and I wasn't saying you were attacking anyone. You were just the last in a long line of posts that were bordering on telling people to leave or that their posts weren't welcome in our forum and it was a general warning to everyone that people who root for other teams are allowed to post here as well, since we already had to start deleting stuff. Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. Either way, nothing personal was meant by it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rodgerwilco

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
I dunno why you're feeling personally attacked but that wasn't my intention, and I wasn't saying you were attacking anyone. You were just the last in a long line of posts that were bordering on telling people to leave or that their posts weren't welcome in our forum and it was a general warning to everyone that people who root for other teams are allowed to post here as well, since we already had to start deleting stuff. Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. Either way, nothing personal was meant by it.

ok
 

itsjustsurvival

These are my last, last words
Sponsor
Mar 30, 2006
1,827
649
richmond, virginia.
Jensen was great last night. Kuznetsov with maybe his best faceoff performance.

Maybe the the team as a whole isn’t used to winning faceoffs anymore, but there’s still some work on wingers/d supporting the draw. But huge improvement overall.
 

kicksavedave

I'm just here for the memes and gifs.
Sponsor
Apr 29, 2009
10,828
13,614
Fallbrook, CA
www.tiasarms.org
I didn’t mean to compare Cooke with Wilson as a player, Matt Cooke was way dirtier than anything that Tom Wilson exhibited. My point was just that he made a concerted effort to change the way that he played and I think he was successful at doing that. However, he was never going to get the benefit of the doubt from anyone outside of Pittsburgh due to his history and reputation.

Well sure, other teams fans have no interest in giving the benefit of the doubt to their rivals. And other teams fans very rarely watch every game of their opponent. But those of us who've watched Wilson since day 1 have seen him noticeably change his game to take fewer chances, to actually hit less often, to pull up when its going to be late. But of course those split second decisions are not going to be perfect all the time, but the change in his approach is clearly evident.

I never saw Cooke change his game right up until his last suspension that finished his career, including the skate to Karlson's Achilles which he was not suspended for but was clearly intent to injure.
 

crab

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
2,025
2,604
Go back and watch early to mid 20s Ovechkin. People hated him and called him the dirtiest player in the league. What for? Late hits, hits from behind, and leaving his skates. Poor choices. He didnt crosscheck guys in the head or slew foot them. It was basic body checking. If he made a mistake, it was a dirty play. Not a mistake. When you are top 5 in the league in hitting, its going to happen.

Same with Wilson. Brad Marchand is dirty. Wilson doesnt do this stuff



On top of it all the Penguins fans love to cry that Wilson is dirty when they have that ogre Malkin who does this cheap dirty shit too and hides behind the ref when someone confronts him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rayquaza64
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad