GDT: Penguins @ Canadiens (Quebec City)

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I actually liked the Scuderi signing at the time because I didn't think he'd become THAT useless. I figured he'd be a good partner for Letang - until I saw Scuds play his first game.

It's very, very rare I go with nostalgia or well wishing when it comes to certain players. I will never do that again.

I had the exact same train of thought when we acquired both Scuds and Lovejoy and it is as follows:

"What? Are you kidding me????"

**days later **

"Well he was out on the West Coast and I didn't see him much at all. What do I know? They watch more of these guys than we do. I imagine he's pretty solid these days if they went out of their way to get him. In this case I'll trust the people that are paid to make these kinds of decisions. I'm liking this more and more! I think it'll be good!"

NEVER AGAIN

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Nisky was a just a castoff a majority of the people on this board wanted thrown on waivers a few years ago. JT was one of the few who thought he could be redeemed.

Sometimes guys just need a chance and the ice time to prove themselves. Guys like Cole, Dumo and even Clendening/Erixon fit in that category IMHO.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I hated Niskanen when he was first brought here. He really turned his game around and got a Hell of a lot better. Is he a nearly $6M/yr defenseman? Absolutely not. But I'd pay $4-$4.5M easily for him, and I think he'd have signed here for that.

I didn't know what to think of Scuds coming back. LA had just won a Cup, he didn't look horrendous playing alongside Doughty. Doughty's career had just taken off. I was hopeful that Scuderi could be the guy to cover for all of Letang's mistakes, and allow him to play a more natural, open game where he didn't have to over-think everything. Hopefully jettisoning him to the caliber Doughty had just gotten to.

Boy, was I wrong.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I was with Mtl on the Scuderi thing. Hated to see him go at the time, but he went for stupid money so I thought it was the right move. Getting him back seemed like a necessary move AT THE TIME because I thought he'd be good for Letang. But the wheels came off way too soon and now we have an albatross contract.

I would have never given Niskanen what he signed for. I think there are better, CHEAPER ways to fix this defense.

Why do I have a feeling we're going to trade Perron to fix this defense?

 

[drpepper]

I actually liked the Scuderi signing at the time because I didn't think he'd become THAT useless. I figured he'd be a good partner for Letang - until I saw Scuds play his first game.

It's very, very rare I go with nostalgia or well wishing when it comes to certain players. I will never do that again.

I had watched a bit of Scuderi with LA, and I am a big proponent of using stats & analytics so I didn't see any upside to the Scuderi signing.

Also I wouldn't have signed Niskanen for his current contract, but in the summer of 2013 he would have been available for under $5M.

 

[SEALBound]

I hated the scuderi signing and thought Niskanen had to walk once they missed the chance to re-sign him cheap.

Of course, most of my thoughts on Niskanen re-signing related directly to Despres and my desire to see him play regularly.

There were just flat out too many dmen 1-3 years ago. Too many top prospects, too many NHL players. And they did about as poor of a job as you could possibly do managing them. The young kids didn't get the playing time, the NHLers all left for nothing, and we pissed away a bunch of young guys (Morrow, Despres, Strait, and Harrington - even though we did get Kessel with him).

Signing Eaton when we did and Scuderi like we did was entirely unnecessary and has had far reaching effects...sadly...

Re-signing Niskanen would have solved so many problems for us. I'm not sad we didn't pay him $5.75 million annually, but I feel like the Pens could have retained him at around $5 million per year without much issue. Maybe we would have moved Kunitz this offseason had we kept Niskanen.

And not trading away Despres. Letang-Maatta, Nisky-Despres...we'd be set right now. We would be a bonafide force to be reckoned with. Cap wise it would be close...probably means no Plotnikov or Cullen but...oh well.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That ankle injury is the point in time that Scuderi went to the dogs, idk if it didn't heal to 100%, if the time off messed him up or if that was the time he was going to fall apart anyway. Of course he'd been an iron man in LA and lasted 20 games or whatever it was before being completely ruined as a player and then the Pens stood by him. The defense has been on a downward trajectory, they signed Scuderi which ended badly, let Orpik go for nothing, let Niskanen go for nothing, let Martin go for nothing, traded Morrow stupidly and traded Despres really stupidly for ****ing Lovejoy. Harrington got traded in a good trade but it's cumulative and has caught up with them. The Morrow and Pouliot picks weren't the best either... and Sammuelsson is what it is. ffs, Pens. They even traded low on Lovejoy years ago and iirc Michalek was sent where he wanted to go and **** the return.



Didn't Scuderi break his foot in his final game as a Pen or something like that?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

As an edit to above regarding Niskanen: And yeah... back then guys like Despres and a deeper pool of younger defensemen were still a thing. He didn't seem nearly as big a piece of the puzzle. It would have been nice to get something for rehabilitating his career, though. Because as has been mentioned at least a couple of times, now... once they passed on extending him on the cheap... writing was on the wall.

To add, like Jiggy said... it isn't beyond reason that there is still "another Niskanen" somewhere in the system. That feeling was magnified exponentially so then. So I think some of this is certainly rosy hindsight. I agree then as now with Jags... better, cheaper ways to do it.

Scuderi was an easy call, for me. Massive reservations when he signed... didn't like it. Pure nostalgic nonsense from Rejean. The team ACTUALLY believed their own crap about him being "The Piece" and all that garbage. Fact is... Scuderi was mostly-bad in his first stint as a Penguin. And (some of) his tenure in LA was the exception and not the rule of his overall body of work (he wasn't all great there, especially at the end). Particularly in a league in which it seems trendy to manufacture your offense from the back end.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I had watched a bit of Scuderi with LA, and I am a big proponent of using stats & analytics so I didn't see any upside to the Scuderi signing.

Also I wouldn't have signed Niskanen for his current contract, but in the summer of 2013 he would have been available for under $5M.

I wouldn't have taken Nisky at his current contract, and I was one of his bigger backers from the start.

I've made two mistakes in my player evaluations over the recent years, and both times I followed heart instead of what I'd like to this is a real keen eye for individual talent and the game itself.

1. Iginla. I was so excited for the trade that I completely ignored the fact that he was no longer the player he was. He had become like Neal where if he wasn't scoring, he wasn't helping. Putting him on left wing didn't help, but regardless of which side of the ice he was on, he was losing every board battle - AND he was slow.

2. Scuderi. The team had ****ed fans over with its stupidity for so long it looked like a nice signing to help bring along some of the younger guys. I watch more Ducks and Sharks than the Kings during the regular season, so the only recent memory I had of him was during the Kings' first run where he was rock solid. Again, I completely ignored how poor he looked the following year (the last year of his contract) during the playoffs when they were eliminated by the 'Hawks (look at how badly he plays the 2 on 1 on Kane's OT goal to clinch the series. Again, I did so out of emotion rather than hard facts and simply using the eye test.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That ankle injury is the point in time that Scuderi went to the dogs, idk if it didn't heal to 100%, if the time off messed him up or if that was the time he was going to fall apart anyway. Of course he'd been an iron man in LA and lasted 20 games or whatever it was before being completely ruined as a player and then the Pens stood by him. The defense has been on a downward trajectory, they signed Scuderi which ended badly, let Orpik go for nothing, let Niskanen go for nothing, let Martin go for nothing, traded Morrow stupidly and traded Despres really stupidly for ****ing Lovejoy. Harrington got traded in a good trade but it's cumulative and has caught up with them. The Morrow and Pouliot picks weren't the best either... and Sammuelsson is what it is. ffs, Pens. They even traded low on Lovejoy years ago and iirc Michalek was sent where he wanted to go and **** the return.



Didn't Scuderi break his foot in his final game as a Pen or something like that?

I actually have thought this before. When Scuderi first got here, I thought he actually played well when paired with Niskanen when Letang was out to start the 13-14 season. Then he broke his ankle and has been a flaming pile of **** since.

 

[drpepper]

That ankle injury is the point in time that Scuderi went to the dogs, idk if it didn't heal to 100%, if the time off messed him up or if that was the time he was going to fall apart anyway. Of course he'd been an iron man in LA and lasted 20 games or whatever it was before being completely ruined as a player and then the Pens stood by him. The defense has been on a downward trajectory, they signed Scuderi which ended badly, let Orpik go for nothing, let Niskanen go for nothing, let Martin go for nothing, traded Morrow stupidly and traded Despres really stupidly for ****ing Lovejoy. Harrington got traded in a good trade but it's cumulative and has caught up with them. The Morrow and Pouliot picks weren't the best either... and Sammuelsson is what it is. ffs, Pens. They even traded low on Lovejoy years ago and iirc Michalek was sent where he wanted to go and **** the return.



Didn't Scuderi break his foot in his final game as a Pen or something like that?

Scuderi was struggling when he was playing for LAK. His issues were somewhat masked by playing with Doughty (much like Despres, Doughty carried that pairing even in the beginning) and by LA's system. He wasn't good before he got back to PIT. Regardless of his ankle injury, he shouldn't have been signed.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Scuderi was struggling when he was playing for LAK. His issues were somewhat masked by playing with Doughty (much like Despres, Doughty carried that pairing even in the beginning) and by LA's system. He wasn't good before he got back to PIT. Regardless of his ankle injury, he shouldn't have been signed.

Declining/struggling isn't instantly becoming someone that arguably isn't even a NHL player anymore. The contract itself had a lot of issues but I don't think anyone thought he'd become that bad as fast as he did.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

With Scuds when I heard the rumors I rolled my eyes at first and thought here goes Shero again. Figured they would have Shero on an episode of Hoarders: Buried Alive. "Over here I have my Orpik, in the corner there is the 'Letang', in the bedroom is my Frisky Nisky, I keep my Martin in the garage, in the closet I store my Elmer. Of course in my favorite room, the bathroom, where I do all of my heavy thinking, I keep my Poo..."

After he did sign I figured Nisky or Orpik would get moved for fwd help and figured he was a free asset that could play with Letang.... Ya.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

With Scuds when I heard the rumors I rolled my eyes at first and thought here goes Shero again. Figured they would have Shero on an episode of Hoarders: Buried Alive. "Over here I have my Orpik, in the corner there is the 'Letang', in the bedroom is my Frisky Nisky, I'm keep my Martin in the garage, In the closet I store my Elmer,. Of course in my favorite room, the bathroom, where I do all of my heavy thinking, I keep my Poo..."

After he did sign I figured Nisky or Orpik would get moved for fwd help and figured he was a free asset that could play with Letang.... Ya.

Didn't everyone? They didn't even have the cap space to keep all of them until Vokoun had his blood clot.

How long did you spend on the buried alive part?

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not really basing my opinion on groupthink. I watched plenty of Niskanen in his years here myself, thanks. He was a fine enough middle pairing player and in hindsight... obviously he'd be nice to have in the mix, now (though as I'm constantly being reminded at every turn... we're awfully early on in the year, yet). But at between 5-6M long term... I dunno. I guess in this system (whatever that is) it would make some sense. Personal preference, I guess. I was fine with him moving on and I still am.

I think most here are talking about signing him prior to his last season for 4-4.5, which he was reportedly open to. At the time, a lot of us wanted to trade either him or Orpik so Despres could get some ice time.

Once it was clear Nisky had priced himself north of 5MM, most of us wanted him to walk.

Edit: To what Jiggy said above, I specifically remember a lot of us being cool with Scuds on condition of Orpik being traded. That would have left:
Scuderi-Letang
Martin-Despres
Maatta-Nisky, Bort

Instead, Maatta beat out Despres and Bort and we were stuck with Orpik and Scuds.

There was never a plan to trust the youth. Now we are seeing the opposite. We are stuck with bad contracts so we can't bring in any veteran D help and have to rely on young guys to play beyond what they are ready for.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Didn't everyone? They didn't even have the cap space to keep all of them until Vokoun had his blood clot.

Just incredible how badly this org bumbled things up until the Kesse trade.

How long did you spend on the buried alive part?

30s or so. My mind blends well with insanity.

So um, how many cats live with you? Just asking...

 

[lordstanley91]

nevermind

 

[IcedCapp]

Declining/struggling isn't instantly becoming someone that arguably isn't even a NHL player anymore. The contract itself had a lot of issues but I don't think anyone thought he'd become that bad as fast as he did.

As someone who gets off on stroking his own ego and tooting his own horn: I did.

I specifically said that not only was he not good, but that putting him in Bylsma's system was extra-special levels of idiotic.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

As someone who gets off on stroking his own ego and tooting his own horn: I did.

I specifically said that not only was he not good, but that putting him in Bylsma's system was extra-special levels of idiotic.

Yeah, you did say that. I assumed that signing Scuds was the only way we could get rid of Orpik. You may recall the level of fear around here about us extending Orpik. And who knows, if we sign Clark Mac instead of Scuds then, maybe we do extend Orpik at 5x5, and we'd be even more screwed than we are now.

I am sure Shero had a few deals queued up that were even worse than the ones he handed out. In other words, things could always be worse.

 

[The GM]

That ankle injury is the point in time that Scuderi went to the dogs, idk if it didn't heal to 100%, if the time off messed him up or if that was the time he was going to fall apart anyway. Of course he'd been an iron man in LA and lasted 20 games or whatever it was before being completely ruined as a player and then the Pens stood by him. The defense has been on a downward trajectory, they signed Scuderi which ended badly, let Orpik go for nothing, let Niskanen go for nothing, let Martin go for nothing, traded Morrow stupidly and traded Despres really stupidly for ****ing Lovejoy. Harrington got traded in a good trade but it's cumulative and has caught up with them. The Morrow and Pouliot picks weren't the best either... and Sammuelsson is what it is. ffs, Pens. They even traded low on Lovejoy years ago and iirc Michalek was sent where he wanted to go and **** the return.



Didn't Scuderi break his foot in his final game as a Pen or something like that?

Didn't part of the package that Michalek was traded for include the pick that ended up being Oskar S? Given we signed him as a FA how bad of a fit he ended up being given his cap hit, all in all dumping him didn't turn out too bad.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah, you did say that. I assumed that signing Scuds was the only way we could get rid of Orpik. You may recall the level of fear around here about us extending Orpik. And who knows, if we sign Clark Mac instead of Scuds then, maybe we do extend Orpik at 5x5, and we'd be even more screwed than we are now.

I am sure Shero had a few deals queued up that were even worse than the ones he handed out. In other words, things could always be worse.

yeah, things could be way worse. And really, the issue wasn't signing Scuderi, it was refusing to re-sign Niskanen early OR trade him. The issue was not trading Orpik a year early. The issue was not giving Despres and Bort the bottom pair for an entire season. The issue was not giving Dumoulin half a year last year. The issue is not trading Scuderi when they had an option to trade Scuderi.

Now, if they play Lovejoy and Scuderi this year, if they keep Gonchar around, now they are just not only living with problems, they are compounding their problems and inviting more.

 

[cygnus47]

I hated the scuderi signing and thought Niskanen had to walk once they missed the chance to re-sign him cheap.

Of course, most of my thoughts on Niskanen re-signing related directly to Despres and my desire to see him play regularly.

I was ok with that, contingent on them trading Orpik for a top 6 winger. It would have been like indirectly signing a UFA winger without having to pay the premium.

Niskanen proved me wrong. I hated his game early on (especially on the left side with Letang, another Bylsma classic) and he was in Despres' way but the possession stats said he was doing well. I remember him making a lot of defensive zone turnovers but that may have been in my head. He really came along in his final season here, but there was no way he was signing at that point.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

At the time of the signing, I was fine with it. It made sense at that time, because I assumed Scuderi could be that calming defensive presence for Letang.

My issue is how this organization simply refused to cut its losses when it became apparent that it was NOT a good idea to bring him back. If you make a mistake, fix it. Don't just hang on to that mistake for years and years afterward just because at the time it made sense.

I think this encapsulates everything that is wrong with this organization. Instead of cutting ties with players who clearly aren't as good as they once were when you originally signed them/traded for them, they hang on to them and play them in prominent roles until it gets to the point those players are actually hurting the club.

 

[Boocock]

Would be nice if one of Clendening or Erixon proved to be more than a warm blooded individual.

I don't know about Erixon, but Clendening seems to have chemistry with Maatta.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

yeah, things could be way worse. And really, the issue wasn't signing Scuderi, it was refusing to re-sign Niskanen early OR trade him. The issue was not trading Orpik a year early. The issue was not giving Despres and Bort the bottom pair for an entire season. The issue was not giving Dumoulin half a year last year. The issue is not trading Scuderi when they had an option to trade Scuderi.

Now, if they play Lovejoy and Scuderi this year, if they keep Gonchar around, now they are just not only living with problems, they are compounding their problems and inviting more.

You left out the issue of signing Mark frickin' Eaton when there was absolutely no reason to.


It's hard to believe we are now suddenly in great need of defenders. It's madness.