If you go by the eye test, Simon disappears for long stretches. He'll have a game or two where he scores a goal or makes a nice pass to set up a goal like last night, then for the next several games he's invisible. But everyone will cling to that one moment to justify his usage in the top 6. Many of you have done the same with guys like Archibald and Scott Wilson, which is why there's still angst among those that JR traded them.
What exactly do you expect from Simon? 21 points, +8, a little over 13 TOI/G is pretty good, if you ask me. Yes, it would be great if he were a better finisher but the guy is a fifth round pick, after all. Comparing him and Rust with Bylsma's pets (I assume you mean Adams, Glass and the likes) is not something I can agree with because they actually produce, albeit rather inconsistently.
Rust wasn't scratched when he was struggling... and then had a stretch when he was on fire, so why exactly should he have been scratched again?
Simon gets an ES point in 38% of his games. If you want to compare that with someone else say Kessel he scores an ES point in 46% of his games (while playing more).
I’ve posted the stats the chances L1 create are the best on the team when Simon is there. It’s his first full season and to put up a 42 point pace (38 ES) is ridiculously good especially averaging 13:14 minutes per night. He’s also making 750k for the season.
You should be praising him not trying to tear him down. Archie and Wilson haven’t done what he has. Simon is a smart, skilled player who’s producing with limited minutes on a cheap contract and our captain loves playing with him.
If that's the case, why does he usually at some point get removed (however reluctantly by the coaches I'm sure) from the top line if that line is supposedly at "its best" with him on it? Perhaps at some point just generating chances (however subjective that stat is) isn't good enough if you aren't capitalizing on enough of them.
I expect the coaches to play their best wings in the top 6, not guys who are as inconsistent at scoring as Rust and especially Simon.
If you want to go back a bit further, I would also expect the coach to not start the latter on the top line in an elimination game in the playoffs when he took a horrible penalty the game before. If that doesn't lend itself to the definition of a teacher's pet, I'm not sure what does.
At the time though, it was pretty ridiculous that Sullivan didn't at least give Sprong a shot in the top 9 over him or even sit him for a few games.
If that's the case, why does he usually at some point get removed (however reluctantly by the coaches I'm sure) from the top line if that line is supposedly at "its best" with him on it?
If that's the case, why does he usually at some point get removed (however reluctantly by the coaches I'm sure) from the top line if that line is supposedly at "its best" with him on it? Perhaps at some point just generating chances (however subjective that stat is) isn't good enough if you aren't capitalizing on enough of them.
I expect the coaches to play their best wings in the top 6, not guys who are as inconsistent at scoring as Rust and especially Simon.
I hate to break it to you but we don't have four wingers better than Simon and Rust. Hornqvist is coming off an injury and had not looked particularly good in the previous two games, so he was used on the third line as a sort of shut down line. And shock and horror, it worked.
The whole team (with few exceptions in some of the games) played badly in that particular series (I am assuming you mean the Caps series last year), but please feel free to focus on Simon taking a bad penalty as if nobody else has ever done that.
Ah, finally an explanation. This is about Sprong after all. For all we know Rust might have reacted badly to being benched and continued his cold streak to this very day. Complaining about it right now is odd, to say the least.
Same for complaining about Simon after he stole the puck and passed to Sid for a tap-in which was the game-winning goal.
Why has been Kessel removed from Malkin's line quite a few times or Horny from Sid's line? I guess they suck too? Sullivan likes changing his lines often, this in itself is hardly an indictment on any individual player.
Amateur fan's eye test vs. professionally collected data? Tough choice.
Easy now.
It's an online discussion board. We're all gonna say stuff.
If all we had to do was watch stats there'd be no reason to log in.
If Pearson is the worst player of that bunch and is used as a "3rd wheel" on that line, that's a pretty good top 6.
Who cares how Rust would feel? He isn't a star player.
You're proving my earlier point. Simon makes a nice play or two and everyone declares he's a top-liner,
That's an easy answer - because the coaches are infatuated with achieving the "balance" from 2016
Huge bounce back W. It’s amazing how we play up or down to our competition. Ottawa tomorrow not good!
I like Pearson but he isn't better than Rust, especially on a team which likes attacking with speed like the Pens do. And Simon is a much better playmaker than him.
If him sulking would result in playing worse... all Pens fans should care. Since when is scratching a player a sure way to stop cold streaks anyway?
Nobody is "declaring" him a top-liner, all we are saying is that he isn't nearly as bad as you claim.
Ah, yes, you know better than the coaches, of course. Thanks for enlightening us!
As for Simon, he's not exactly Marty St. Louis as some like to make him out to be.
If a player the caliber of Rust sulks and gets the boo-boo face because he gets scratched for playing very poorly, then the fans would be much more likely to turn against that player and want him out.
I think Simon is just a 3rd-liner at best. If he was suddenly traded or waived I don't think it would impact the team at all.
While Rust isn't a disaster on the LW, he's better on the right and shouldn't be shoehorned into the spot especially when Pearson would be a better complimentary player to Malkin and Kessel.
Guentzel-Crosby-Simon should be the permanent L1 imo. Ride em until they go cold. Really like Simon in that spot.
Simon had a rough stretch in December coming off injury. Since the new year though, he’s been pretty consistent— 8 points (7 EV) in 11 games. He’s only failed to register a point in 4 of those 11 games. With his average TOI and minuscule PP time, that’s damn good. Not to mention he’s doing it for dirt cheap.
Nah, there would still be the cherry-picking of certain stats and over-reliance on questionable "advanced stats."
Congratulations, you won the argument against this hilarious strawman. In other news, Gretzky is also a better passer than Simon, you got me there.
And that's relevant to the likelihood of scratching him having a positive or negative effect on his game how exactly? Who says the fans would even know if he sulked or not? All I am saying is that Sullivan's approach of not scratching Rust clearly worked. You are indulging in rather absurd speculation.
Yes, waiving players on an ELC who produce is the road to greatness, you convinced me.
Rust has been pretty good with Malkin and Kessel in the past, why don't we wait and see if it works out this time? Pearson's best game with Malkin was against the Ducks, by the way, with, gasp, that awful Simon on the other wing.
Simon's stats are rather good across the board, but feel free to cite any that say otherwise? So far those appear to be:
1. Disappearances/60
2. EyeTestFail%
3. iMartinStLouisF
You did, as you said fans should care if he's sulking.
That's what a lot of us thought of Brian Gibbons and Jayson Megna one time too.
Since you didn't reply to it, I take it you agree with my previous post that the desire to chase "balance" in the line combinations has failed after 2016.
I think he's producing well enough there. My issue with Simon is that it's far too easy to knock him off of the puck. Obviously I don't expect him to be Sidney Crosby, but he has to stronger on the puck if that line is going to have any sort of sustained offense in the playoffs.If you go by the eye test, Simon disappears for long stretches. He'll have a game or two where he scores a goal or makes a nice pass to set up a goal like last night, then for the next several games he's invisible. But everyone will cling to that one moment to justify his usage in the top 6. Many of you have done the same with guys like Archibald and Scott Wilson, which is why there's still angst among those that JR traded them.
You don't need advanced stats to say Simon is doing well this year, him being on pace for 15 goals and 40 points with 90% of that being ES production says he's doing well. But yes, the eye test overrides the fact that Simon is producing like a top-6 forward this year, yep.
I don't know what it is, but I've really soured on Simon recently for seemingly no reason. He's been producing well, he has 3 goals and 8 points in his last 11 games, but I'm just really uncomfortable with any lineup that has him above the 3rd line. I want him on the 4th line for when the playoffs open, that would be a best case scenario for me.
Really? That makes him look better suited for the 3rd line. Also, you made a really good point about Simon in the Salary Cap Thread:
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap & Roster Building Thread
I swear I didn't hack your phone or computer and post this!
It's really easy to understand where you were coming from though. Simon's point totals are more a product of playing with 2 great players than anything he is doing. You stick any mostly any jabroni on the other side of Crosby and Guentzel and they'll get something by accident at least for a time. Considering the fact that he doesn't finish, doesn't provide the same "jam" (for lack of a better word) Hornqvist does, and had a horrible playoff outing when Sullivan inexplicably put him on the top line in the Washington series, it's very easy to be doubtful of him and prefer a better option.
It sounds like you're saying Simon doesn't pass the eye test.
I think he's producing well enough there. My issue with Simon is that it's far too easy to knock him off of the puck. Obviously I don't expect him to be Sidney Crosby, but he has to stronger on the puck if that line is going to have any sort of sustained offense in the playoffs.