Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4, Lightning 2 - Punching A Faux Bully In The Mouth

[Turin]

I thought that Brassard was a trade precaution healthy scratch

It is.

 

[BmxHockey]

If only Bryan Rust could finish at least 20% chances....

 

[Beauner]

If only Bryan Rust could finish at least 20% chances....

then he'd be scoring 30 goals a year and we wouldn't be able to afford him

 

[William I NEGLE]

Was fully expecting a Tampa comeback after that 5 on 3.

Me too. Like ... a movie we've seen before.

I'll be at the Sens game. Gonna wear the Malkin jersey.

 

[NMK11]

If only Bryan Rust could finish at least 20% chances....

Considering 15% would be a great shooting percentage, finishing 20% of his chances is unreasonable. And as others have pointed out, he isn't He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named. He brings a ton other than scoring, and does all of this at a reasonable price. I'm more than happy with his game, really for his career outside of a bad 20 game stretch to start the season.

Before the game I wondered what TB needed since they seem to have the deepest team in the league for the past few years. After this game, I think it's all in their head. I like pixie's quote of they look like a Bylsma team. They try to play rough and then wilt when someone punches back. They need a Cullen in the worst way.

 

[vodeni]

I wouldnt go that far. They took it to us pretty bad in the 1st. Didn't hurt that our guys scored on 60% of their shots in the opening period, but 9 times out of 10 we probably lose that game after only 20 minutes of play.

but that second period was a text book playing against a very good fast team

 

[Empoleon8771]

If only Bryan Rust could finish at least 20% chances....

Rust's goals/game over the last 3 years with a shooting% of 20% would be 31 goals per 82 games. Right now, he's at a 12% shooting% over that window, which is good for 19 goals per 82 games.

I don't know why anyone would complain about Rust, his production has been insanely consistent in the last 3 years. Pace of 22 goals and 40 points in 2016-2017, 15 goals and 45 points in 2017-2018 and 20 goals and 40 points this year. The dude just screams consistency, which is pretty funny considering he started the year horribly.

 

[Icarium]

Another issue is that there's certain depth players, namely Rust, Sheahan, and Simon, that Sullivan simply will not take minutes away from or scratch regardless of how bad they play (I don't want to throw Cullen into that mix, but as a 42-year-old the guy should be sitting out at least a few games over the course of a season). First, we've seen enough of the teacher's pet mentality over the course of the Shero/Bylsma era. That's why I would have liked to see JR let Simon go last offseason as a message to the coaching staff. Second, that's going to block a guy like Blueger getting a legitimate opportunity before the trade deadline.

What exactly do you expect from Simon? 21 points, +8, a little over 13 TOI/G is pretty good, if you ask me. Yes, it would be great if he were a better finisher but the guy is a fifth round pick, after all. Comparing him and Rust with Bylsma's pets (I assume you mean Adams, Glass and the likes) is not something I can agree with because they actually produce, albeit rather inconsistently. Rust wasn't scratched when he was struggling... and then had a stretch when he was on fire, so why exactly should he have been scratched again?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another issue is that there's certain depth players, namely Rust, Sheahan, and Simon, that Sullivan simply will not take minutes away from or scratch regardless of how bad they play (I don't want to throw Cullen into that mix, but as a 42-year-old the guy should be sitting out at least a few games over the course of a season). First, we've seen enough of the teacher's pet mentality over the course of the Shero/Bylsma era. That's why I would have liked to see JR let Simon go last offseason as a message to the coaching staff. Second, that's going to block a guy like Blueger getting a legitimate opportunity before the trade deadline.

There is just so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start. Just yikes.

1. First off, who are you going to play if you scratch any of those guys? Blueger isn't a winger, so he's not going to get in for any of those guys. Are you just going to scratch them for some unnamed WBS player?
2. Rust deserves way more rope to struggle than you seem to think he deserves, seeing what he has done in the last 2 years and 2 cup runs. And seeing how he's now back to a 20 goal and 40 point pace, it's stupid to talk about scratching him right now.
3. Simon has 8 points in his last 11 games and is on pace for 40 points this year, mostly at ES. The idea that they should have "let him go" to send a message to the coaching staff is just asininely dumb.
4. Why is Simon "blocking" guys like Blueger from getting legitimate opportunities when he's also a young player and doesn't play the same position as Blueger? Why does Simon suddenly not deserve those opportunities, despite producing in the NHL, while some random WBS players do?

I know you constantly rip on Simon all of the time like he beat up your kid or something, but this is just asininely stupid. This is just a trash paragraph.

 

[NMK11]

People being upset with Rust and Simon confuse me. Players on good contracts who are producing well as depth players. Sometimes I swear this board thinks that anything less than having four top-6 wingers who score 30 goals each is a failure. We're a top 5 team in goals scored despite our second best player looking like a shell of himself for most of the season, and all people want is more wingers to score more goals.

 

[BmxHockey]

Rust's goals/game over the last 3 years with a shooting% of 20% would be 31 goals per 82 games. Right now, he's at a 12% shooting% over that window, which is good for 19 goals per 82 games.

I don't know why anyone would complain about Rust, his production has been insanely consistent in the last 3 years. Pace of 22 goals and 40 points in 2016-2017, 15 goals and 45 points in 2017-2018 and 20 goals and 40 points this year. The dude just screams consistency, which is pretty funny considering he started the year horribly.

Thanks for the input and I appreciate that. The numbers your proved are awesome and I also think because he is playing with the best play maker in the world (we can think of many complex equivalences - many have third, I have mine and you may have yours) again because he is lashing with Crosby, these are grade AA chances and it’s a disrespect for Sid, the perosnell for him not to be cleaning up an extra 8%. Coaching needs to influence him to find 4 things where he could improve by 1-2% marginally in an effort to be a finisher. My kind teadnit could be mental limiting belief that he “is not good enough.” I could help him with that.

 

[ncm7772]

the dwellers wont be in the playoffs.

Very true, but our boys are far from a lock to make it. Consistently losing to last place teams is a perfect recipe for missing the playoffs.

 

[Anita L]

playing Ottawa after a huge win against the best team in hockey right now worries me they are a bad team and we all know how they play down to they're competition

 

[Tom Hanks]

Effort is a big part of it, another is line combinations and player usage. Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel on three separate lines or Hornqvist on the 3rd line in favor of Rust or Simon doesn't work for very long stretches. But the coaches seem hellbent on making one of those two options work in a flawed attempt to re-live 2016 (totally ignoring the fact that isn't how they won in 2017) and believing Rust and Simon are anything more than 3rd liners.

Another issue is that there's certain depth players, namely Rust, Sheahan, and Simon, that Sullivan simply will not take minutes away from or scratch regardless of how bad they play (I don't want to throw Cullen into that mix, but as a 42-year-old the guy should be sitting out at least a few games over the course of a season). First, we've seen enough of the teacher's pet mentality over the course of the Shero/Bylsma era. That's why I would have liked to see JR let Simon go last offseason as a message to the coaching staff. Second, that's going to block a guy like Blueger getting a legitimate opportunity before the trade deadline.

ATOI
Simon 13:14
Sheahan 12:39
Rust 15:08

Rust and Sheahan average a couple minutes on the PK too. Rust’s minutes were lower at the start of the season but increased as he got better and well deserved.

Sid wants to play with Simon and the advanced stats show that Jake and Sid look better with him there (the eye test is pretty good too, they are slick). Simon is going at a 42 point/82 game pace (38 at ES) averaging 13:14 a night that’s ridiculously good.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[ncm7772]

Very true but it's still a shame we're squandering THAT MANY POINTS.

Exactly. It's expected that you're not going to win every game vs the worst teams, but a 1-7-1 record against last place teams is unacceptable. Let's say that record is just slightly better at 3-5-1. They're in 1st place.

Like in 2012 when they only had to beat the lowly NYI (who were awful that year, IIRC) once to win the division and avoid philly in the 1st round, and lost in regulation twice. That was in the last week or 2 of the RS. Again, if my memory serves me right.

We all know what happened after that.

 

[ncm7772]

Sitting Riikola is a bad move if you ask me.

I think we all know that's what's going to happen.

 

[ncm7772]

And???
Where you work bro if your such a pro?

Dude, why are you so mad at that guy?

 

[Anita L]

prediction; Ottawa 4 pens 1 another clunker after a huge win they go 1-10-1 against the bottom feeders throw another 2 points away, hope I'm wrong tho lol
"just can't fight this feeling AnyyyyyyyyyyyyyMoooooooooooore"

 

[ncm7772]

One thing that really stood out tonight was just how physical and rambunctious TB played tonight. What the hell was that all about. Are they trying to send a message to teams in the east for the playoff push? I know they have some solid, physical players but damn, that was a bit much. It certainly didn't help their cause.

Idk, man. If I were a TB fan (and I'm the absolute personification of hatred for the TBL), I'd love it.

 

[TooManyHumans]

https://deadspin.com/matt-murray-is-getting-feisty-back-there-1832226685

 

[Pancakes]

https://deadspin.com/matt-murray-is-getting-feisty-back-there-1832226685

I like how Murray is a bit of a dick back there. That's a good goalie trait to have imo.

 

[Shockmaster]

ATOI
Simon 13:14
Sheahan 12:39
Rust 15:08

Rust and Sheahan average a couple minutes on the PK too. Rust’s minutes were lower at the start of the season but increased as he got better and well deserved.

Sid wants to play with Simon and the advanced stats show that Jake and Sid look better with him there (the eye test is pretty good too, they are slick). Simon is going at a 42 point/82 game pace (38 at ES) averaging 13:14 a night that’s ridiculously good.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

If you go by the eye test, Simon disappears for long stretches. He'll have a game or two where he scores a goal or makes a nice pass to set up a goal like last night, then for the next several games he's invisible. But everyone will cling to that one moment to justify his usage in the top 6. Many of you have done the same with guys like Archibald and Scott Wilson, which is why there's still angst among those that JR traded them.

 

[Shockmaster]

People being upset with Rust and Simon confuse me. Players on good contracts who are producing well as depth players. Sometimes I swear this board thinks that anything less than having four top-6 wingers who score 30 goals each is a failure. We're a top 5 team in goals scored despite our second best player looking like a shell of himself for most of the season, and all people want is more wingers to score more goals.

Personally I think it's silly to suggest the Penguins need to acquire another wing as several in the local media are currently doing. They just need to let go of 2016 and play their 4 best wings in the top 6 instead of trying to force "balance".

 

[UnrealMachine]

If you go by the eye test, Simon disappears for long stretches. He'll have a game or two where he scores a goal or makes a nice pass to set up a goal like last night, then for the next several games he's invisible. But everyone will cling to that one moment to justify his usage in the top 6. Many of you have done the same with guys like Archibald and Scott Wilson, which is why there's still angst among those that JR traded them.

Amateur fan's eye test vs. professionally collected data? Tough choice.

 

[Shockmaster]

Amateur fan's eye test vs. professionally collected data? Tough choice.

I disagreed with NMK's opinion on the eye test too.