Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4, Hurricanes 2

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Props to cassius for two things:

(1) predicting the outcome of tonight's game




(2) being the only guy on this forum to be bearish on Jordan Staal

100% the best poster on the boards!!!!

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't think the sv % is entirely a Sullivan / defense / structure thing.

Not entirely, anyhow. All Pens goalies have been letting in some stinkers, and the Pens have had spurts of really clamping down in the dzone

 

[MrBrightside]

How concerned should we be that Sheary and Simon have basically been glued to the bench during the 3rd period the last 3 games? With several back-to-backs upcoming, basically playing 10 forwards seems like a way to wear guys out.

 

[cajal]

How concerned should we be that Sheary and Simon have basically been glued to the bench during the 3rd period the last 3 games? With several back-to-backs upcoming, basically playing 10 forwards seems like a way to wear guys out.

Maybe Sullivan will figure it out. The veteraniness thing is huge in the Pens' decisions, hopefully he'll play the best players.

I'm not holding my breath that HCMS will do that, but I think it's actually possible.

 

[Rufus]

How concerned should we be that Sheary and Simon have basically been glued to the bench during the 3rd period the last 3 games? With several back-to-backs upcoming, basically playing 10 forwards seems like a way to wear guys out.

They are shortening the bench because they are playing must-win games at this point of the season. Guys are built for this kind of grind down the stretch. If this weekend goes well, I think there will be a better distribution of minutes among all the forwards

 

[MrBrightside]

Maybe Sullivan will figure it out. The veteraniness thing is huge in the Pens' decisions, hopefully he'll play the best players.

I'm not holding my breath that HCMS will do that, but I think it's actually possible.

I don't see it as a veteran thing, as Rust, Kuhnackl, and Wilson (before he got hurt) still get plenty of ice in the 3rd. I just think that they run the risk of wearing guys down by not trusting Sheary and Simon and therefore not playing them in close games. Since Bennett probably isn't a factor and since Wilson is out for awhile, I wonder if they'd be better served with Sundqvist or someone else that HCMS trusts in late, close games.

 

[ColePens]

To me it shows a little bit of desperation and probably not in the best way. I think Sheary/Simon have actually proved themselves to earn more minutes. This coach, like our last 2, is gluing himself to some very unreliable vets. The fact Kunitz turned that puck over early and it's Simon/Sheary sitting the bench is a bit unusual.

That trend has haunted us since 2009. I remember when MT would actually play Talbot/Colby more if they were having a good game. I'm not saying MT is a better overall coach, because I definitely like Sully's system better, but in terms of managing the bench - I'm not sold.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I don't think it pays to worry about it but I will say that I haven't seen our younger forwards turn the puck over or make a lot of noticeable errors when they have it. Simon I can kinda get. Let him get 100% comfortable. The rest, I just don't think it's an issue with this particular group.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

To me it shows a little bit of desperation and probably not in the best way. I think Sheary/Simon have actually proved themselves to earn more minutes. This coach, like our last 2, is gluing himself to some very unreliable vets. The fact Kunitz turned that puck over early and it's Simon/Sheary sitting the bench is a bit unusual.

That trend has haunted us since 2009. I remember when MT would actually play Talbot/Colby more if they were having a good game. I'm not saying MT is a better overall coach, because I definitely like Sully's system better, but in terms of managing the bench - I'm not sold.

Simon has no business playing in the NHL at this point, him playing is pure desperation due to injury and flameouts.

Sheary isn't any kind of defensive stalwart either. Kuntiz is a much better player on defense turnover or no.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fun Kessel stat: Kessel has been producing at a ridiculously consistent rate for basically all of 2016. He's been a .8 PPG player in the last 5, 10, 15, 25 and 30 games (only a .7 PPG in his last 20 games) and has a .794 PPG in 2016.

 

[Jacob]

That's actually still a little low for him, but most of what's missing has been the PP production. He'd hit double digits in PP goals in his most productive seasons, but only has 3 PP goals this year.

At ES he's pretty much right where he should be.

 

[cajal]

To me it shows a little bit of desperation and probably not in the best way. I think Sheary/Simon have actually proved themselves to earn more minutes. This coach, like our last 2, is gluing himself to some very unreliable vets. The fact Kunitz turned that puck over early and it's Simon/Sheary sitting the bench is a bit unusual.

That trend has haunted us since 2009. I remember when MT would actually play Talbot/Colby more if they were having a good game. I'm not saying MT is a better overall coach, because I definitely like Sully's system better, but in terms of managing the bench - I'm not sold.

I'm not sold on Sully's player usage either (some of his lineup decisions are... <ahem> interesting), but I think this coach might have more potential to break the trend of not trusting young/"new Pens" players.

Maybe it truly is an org wide view and the coach is irrelevant. Who knows.

 

[66-30-33]

^ It is. What are the odds 3 coaches in a row opperate the same exact way? they want Kunitz and other useless players to feel like kings here and get treated that way no matter what.

 

[cajal]

^ It is. What are the odds 3 coaches in a row opperate the same exact way? they want Kunitz and other useless players to feel like kings here and get treated that way no matter what.

I don't discount the possibility that three people in a row are idiots about the same aspect of a job

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's actually still a little low for him, but most of what's missing has been the PP production. He'd hit double digits in PP goals in his most productive seasons, but only has 3 PP goals this year.

At ES he's pretty much right where he should be.

Eh if he's scoring like 28 goals and 65 points, I'd be fine with his production level. He's not scoring quite that many goals, but he's at a 65 point pace in 2016. If he'd be scoring 5 more goals on the year, I'd be happy with his production.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

My biggest worry is Crosby getting injured or burnt out by dragging Kunitz around with Hornqvist on the other wing not helping and being expected to save the team. If he goes down or is rundown in the playoffs then that's it. Then there's Maatta's ruined off season and lost season, Letang being Letang, Dumoulin's first season and Cullen being leaned on so much.

To me it shows a little bit of desperation and probably not in the best way. I think Sheary/Simon have actually proved themselves to earn more minutes. This coach, like our last 2, is gluing himself to some very unreliable vets. The fact Kunitz turned that puck over early and it's Simon/Sheary sitting the bench is a bit unusual.

That trend has haunted us since 2009. I remember when MT would actually play Talbot/Colby more if they were having a good game. I'm not saying MT is a better overall coach, because I definitely like Sully's system better, but in terms of managing the bench - I'm not sold.

Sullivan is big on the illusion of accountability but it's clearly different for different players. He's in the Bylsma mould.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I realize salaries are a little nutty anymore, but if you can't expect 30+ goals from a $6.8 mil player that does virtually nothing else there's something wrong. To say nothing of the fact he's actually an $8 mil player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I realize salaries are a little nutty anymore, but if you can't expect 30+ goals from a $6.8 mil player that does virtually nothing else there's something wrong. To say nothing of the fact he's actually an $8 mil player.

Toews is a $10.5 million player and he's barely a 30 goal guy. I realize he's excellent defensively, but his defense isn't worth $3.5 million.

Go look at Bobby Ryan's production if you think 30 goals and 65 points for Kessel is low.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Simon has no business playing in the NHL at this point, him playing is pure desperation due to injury and flameouts.

What has Simon done to give you that opinion? I think he's played pretty well so far with all things considered.

 

[DoktorZaius]

^ It is. What are the odds 3 coaches in a row opperate the same exact way? they want Kunitz and other useless players to feel like kings here and get treated that way no matter what.

The Kunitz thing is the strangest IMO. I get guys getting a break due to veterancy, but he's being treated like a first-ballot hall of famer. It's significantly out of whack with what he was, much less what he is.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Toews is a $10.5 million player and he's barely a 30 goal guy. I realize he's excellent defensively, but his defense isn't worth $3.5 million.

Go look at Bobby Ryan's production if you think 30 goals and 65 points for Kessel is low.

Toews is a well-rounded player, captain, and by your own admission, a 30 goal guy. Maybe more of 28 goal guy, so basically Kessel with about a half dozen other attributes.

Ryan also being overpaid doesn't really change anything either and even though Ryan isn't anything special in the intangible department, he's better than Kessel by default if they're putting up the same stats. Ryan's no grinder, but I've seen him body up on guys in the corners before unlike Phil.

 

[IcedCapp]

Can we not make the Kunitz thing about Sid, though? He was just removed from Sid's like for multiple games. Sid produced. He still reunited them. Surely no one believes that Sid was marching into Sullivan's office after every game demanding they be put back together... Right?

 

[TheSniper26]

Can we not make the Kunitz thing about Sid, though? He was just removed from Sid's like for multiple games. Sid produced. He still reunited them. Surely no one believes that Sid was marching into Sullivan's office after every game demanding they be put back together... Right?

I think it's obvious that our management/coaching group, known for their sound logic and good ideas, rightly wants to take Kunitz off the first line but Crosby, famous for his lack of hockey knowledge and primadonna behavior, just won't allow it. Sorry if you can't deal with the truth, Crysby fanboy.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Can we not make the Kunitz thing about Sid, though? He was just removed from Sid's like for multiple games. Sid produced. He still reunited them. Surely no one believes that Sid was marching into Sullivan's office after every game demanding they be put back together... Right?

We can and we will!



Kunitz is another vet that this team prioritizes over all else.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I realize salaries are a little nutty anymore, but if you can't expect 30+ goals from a $6.8 mil player that does virtually nothing else there's something wrong. To say nothing of the fact he's actually an $8 mil player.

This is just false. Compare the number of nhl'ers who score 30+ to the number making ~7 million. Offense has dropped in the league and the cap has gone up in recent years. Kessel has had an off year and will finish with 20+ goals and ~55 points. If he returns to form next year, he's going to produce enough to justify his cap hit. It's not as big of an issue as people make it out to be.

Derek Stepan is making nearly 7 fwiw.