Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4, Golden Knights 2 - Cough Drops and Hot Dogs for Everyone?s

[Ginormousthumbs]

Is it too early to get a Riikola jersey?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I will say this. I'm not big on cementing someone's legacy on one move, but Sully really shocked me by not playing Riikola in game 1. That was the first time I witnessed Sully stick to his guys that he won a Cup with whether they deserved it or not. When he came up in 2016, he gave zero ****s. The best players played no matter how old or who had hurt feelings.

Riikola earned a spot with his camp and there were 2-3 defenders who played like **** that could have been sent a message to pick it up. Especially Maatta who had disaster preseason games against AHL talent. That message could have been at Game 1.

You see it with the lines now, too. Sprong, tonight, earned a shift or two up with the top 6. He was just having one of those nights. And the RW for Sid's line was struggling no matter who it was. It was the perfect time to pull that trigger and reward him. And he didn't. Hell if L1 RW is struggling and it's Rust/Horny, what the hell would hold you back from trying Sprong out? It's do or die for his Pens career as he's not eligible to be waived. Give it a go.

And i'll say it for the 100th time... the defensive zone is bad. 4 days to dwell on it and we still stood around covering the same guys. I'm keeping these in my back pocket to see if the trend continues. That's all.

I mean, the trend has continued from last season to this.

Sullivan has repeated the past coaches mistakes, he got too comfortable with certain names and forgot what got him to where he is. What we loved about Sullivan was his willingness to try something new with the line-up which meant calling up guys, what we didn't know was that those were his guys that he was calling up and when they moved on, he kept sticking with the guys he had left.

The defense is just so bad right now and it's the coaching. We know how good these guys can be as a unit, but the defense has a massive disconnect with what the forwards are doing and even their own assignments. I missed the first 15mins of this game, but I was glued to the rest and watched the others and 95% of last season. It looks like the F and the D are reading off different play books that aren't even for the same sport. Each player seems to be doing their own thing, even on forward.

People think oh it's 3 games in, no time to panic, but their memories are too short term. This is a lot of the issues from last season, spilling over and that bothers me. It wasn't fixed. Team talked about retrospect and coming back recharged, but they talked about it so much they forgot to actually work at it. The coaching is terrible right now, we literally only won tonight because the VGK are worse than us.

 

[PensandCaps]

Hey man. I defended Simon all summer.He’s fine.

He's struggling a little bit. But some on here make it seem like he is a complete scrub. He's got skill. Should probably not be handed a spot though, I'd like to see him rotate with others in and out the lineup.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's struggling a little bit. But some on here make it seem like he is a complete scrub. He's got skill. Should probably not be handed a spot though, I'd like to see him rotate with others in and out the lineup.

I see no reason to pull him out. Him and Sprong need to be 20-30 pt ES forwards in our bottom six. If we don’t see that by January make a trade for a LW.

 

[Andy99]

Agreed entirely. I don't think it's a personnel issue outside of a couple of guys on defense--Maatta and Oleksiak specifically. I think it's a "give a ****" issue. Guys are entirely too used to winning games off the back of offensive firepower.

We have as good a forward corps as we've ever had in the Sid/Geno era, or ever will have. These guys are capable in all three zones, and while I'd like to see some changes and think we can improve/reshape some things, I think these guys are absolutely capable of winning another Cup. Our blueline is up in the air, but if Letang's playing like Mad Max he's infinitely better than calm, calculated, cerebral Letang (as long as he stays healthy for the playoffs, which is a huge concern of mine--colossal). Riikola looks like an absolute stud, but it's one game and there are bound to be growing pains. Maatta's a ****show, Oleksiak's not far behind, Schultz is a shadow of his former self in terms of transition and offensive ability, JJ is either solid (not spectacular) or really looks like he's struggling. Murray's gotta sort his **** out too. All of our shortcomings can be smoothed over, for better or worse, if Murray's playing up to his ability. We won a Cup with a flawed roster and abysmal defensive play, but we were only able to do so because of clutch goaltending by MAF and Murray, coupled with timely scoring from overwhelming offensive juggernauts at forward.

You do realize that “cerebral Letang” is an oxymoron....

 

[Gurglesons]

I will say this. I'm not big on cementing someone's legacy on one move, but Sully really shocked me by not playing Riikola in game 1. That was the first time I witnessed Sully stick to his guys that he won a Cup with whether they deserved it or not. When he came up in 2016, he gave zero ****s. The best players played no matter how old or who had hurt feelings.

Riikola earned a spot with his camp and there were 2-3 defenders who played like **** that could have been sent a message to pick it up. Especially Maatta who had disaster preseason games against AHL talent. That message could have been at Game 1.

You see it with the lines now, too. Sprong, tonight, earned a shift or two up with the top 6. He was just having one of those nights. And the RW for Sid's line was struggling no matter who it was. It was the perfect time to pull that trigger and reward him. And he didn't. Hell if L1 RW is struggling and it's Rust/Horny, what the hell would hold you back from trying Sprong out? It's do or die for his Pens career as he's not eligible to be waived. Give it a go.

And i'll say it for the 100th time... the defensive zone is bad. 4 days to dwell on it and we still stood around covering the same guys. I'm keeping these in my back pocket to see if the trend continues. That's all.

Cole, Oleksiak and Johnson played over Riikola because they have at least 2 years or more on their contracts.

You can’t sign a player to a 3 and 5 year contract then scratch them going into the season.

He gave Maatta our clearly worse defenseman since day one of camp 2 games to turn it around. For a player who has been trusted like Maatta the past few years, I think Sullivan deserves a lot of credit scratching him.

The easy move would be to scratch Oleksiak.

 

[Gurglesons]

True. It could be a chicken or the egg situation.

I think the Pens could do worse than having JMFJ. But I wouldn't mind if he were upgraded upon. Like about 60% of the defense, lol.

It can’t be a chicken or egg situation.

Schultz is at worst a 4 that can flirt with being a 2 if given proper minutes and usage. Never will happen with Letang here, but he’s a solid D.

Maatta has issues but if they are amplified by his partner like say Daley or Johnson he can overcome them.

Two of these players have been top four options on a really good team the past two years.

Johnson has been a player that leaks shots and opportunities against his entire career.

I would trade Maatta because of Riikola and I think Johnson is like Ian Cole and can go be a little different in the playoffs as a # 5/6 that can move up for a series if injuries hit.

 

[PensandCaps]

I see no reason to pull him out. Him and Sprong need to be 20-30 pt ES forwards in our bottom six. If we don’t see that by January make a trade for a LW.

Just would like to see Blueger in a few games and then Di Pauli here and there. Maybe Johnson too.

It's early. But I hope they do that.

 

[ColePens]

I mean, the trend has continued from last season to this.

Sullivan has repeated the past coaches mistakes, he got too comfortable with certain names and forgot what got him to where he is. What we loved about Sullivan was his willingness to try something new with the line-up which meant calling up guys, what we didn't know was that those were his guys that he was calling up and when they moved on, he kept sticking with the guys he had left.

The defense is just so bad right now and it's the coaching. We know how good these guys can be as a unit, but the defense has a massive disconnect with what the forwards are doing and even their own assignments. I missed the first 15mins of this game, but I was glued to the rest and watched the others and 95% of last season. It looks like the F and the D are reading off different play books that aren't even for the same sport. Each player seems to be doing their own thing, even on forward.

People think oh it's 3 games in, no time to panic, but their memories are too short term. This is a lot of the issues from last season, spilling over and that bothers me. It wasn't fixed. Team talked about retrospect and coming back recharged, but they talked about it so much they forgot to actually work at it. The coaching is terrible right now, we literally only won tonight because the VGK are worse than us.

I can't go all-in with you yet. Let's face it, you react very quickly to things quite aggressively, as I believe you already swore off Murray and his injuries.

To me a lot of last year was the mental exhaustion. I do think bad habits carried over. No doubt. I think it's closer to the team we saw in the playoffs rather than the beginning of the year which was just an absolute question mark of errors. I still want to give it 20-25 games for them to get into a groove and then i'll consider my overall thoughts. Because hell.. last year anything that could go wrong, did go wrong, along with mental exhaustion. So even that team is a Cup contender. That's pretty sweet.

I think the evolution of a coach who wins a championship early is so important. It can be tough to humble yourself to get back to basics when you won a title. Sully is at an interesting crossroads where he sort of needs to reinvent his message because he's trying too many things that worked on different Penguin teams instead of coaching this new one.

I'll collect my thoughts after about 20-40 games and if the d-zone/neutral zone still look the same - then we are in trouble.

 

[Andy99]

Love Sid. But Guentzel and a third wheel should be enough for him to do his thing. Let him have Simon if he won't play with PH.

Good lord no...did you see Simon tonight and do you have any memory of him playing on L1 during the POs? Please keep Simon in the bottom 6....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I can't go all-in with you yet. Let's face it, you react very quickly to things quite aggressively, as I believe you already swore off Murray and his injuries.

To me a lot of last year was the mental exhaustion. I do think bad habits carried over. No doubt. I think it's closer to the team we saw in the playoffs rather than the beginning of the year which was just an absolute question mark of errors. I still want to give it 20-25 games for them to get into a groove and then i'll consider my overall thoughts. Because hell.. last year anything that could go wrong, did go wrong, along with mental exhaustion. So even that team is a Cup contender. That's pretty sweet.

I think the evolution of a coach who wins a championship early is so important. It can be tough to humble yourself to get back to basics when you won a title. Sully is at an interesting crossroads where he sort of needs to reinvent his message because he's trying too many things that worked on different Penguin teams instead of coaching this new one.

I'll collect my thoughts after about 20-40 games and if the d-zone/neutral zone still look the same - then we are in trouble.

Haha, my frustration with Murray is more to do with the team not finding a veteran or maybe even forcing him to work on his conditioning because anyone that gets injured that often is likely not strong enough and needs to adjust their style or something. Concussions are just unfortunate and tough to prep against if you are a goalie.

Last year the mistakes was exhaustion for the mental errors. But when you're better rested and making the same mental errors...I mean, if it looks like a penguin, walks like a penguin...

 

[ColePens]

Cole, Oleksiak and Johnson played over Riikola because they have at least 2 years or more on their contracts.

You can’t sign a player to a 3 and 5 year contract them scratch them going into the season.

Out of the entire group of dmen - #3 looked the worst in preseason games. I understand giving Johnson time to get into the system and see where he's at. Oleksiak was a hit or miss guy but barely outperformed Olli in preseason.

There is no rule that says you have to play those guys. I think Johnson earned a spot, though. It was Olli/Oleksiak/Riikola and Riikola outperformed those 2 guys by a country mile.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just would like to see Blueger in a few games and then Di Pauli here and there. Maybe Johnson too.

It's early. But I hope they do that.

There will be injuries. We go ZAR first. Hopefully eventually he can provide a bottom line presence.

I imagine TB gets minutes next year when our center depth is ruined by the cap. Maybe this year if we really have some issues.

 

[EightyOne]

Just would like to see Blueger in a few games and then Di Pauli here and there. Maybe Johnson too.

It's early. But I hope they do that.

After the debacle of not knowing who to inject where last playoffs, they NEED to get random AHL guys up and not for a game or two, but at least 10 days on the big squad.

If the coaches didnt learn that lesson, damn them all to hell!

 

[Gurglesons]

Out of the entire group of dmen - #3 looked the worst in preseason games. I understand giving Johnson time to get into the system and see where he's at. Oleksiak was a hit or miss guy but barely outperformed Olli in preseason.

There is no rule that says you have to play those guys. I think Johnson earned a spot, though. It was Olli/Oleksiak/Riikola and Riikola outperformed those 2 guys by a country mile.

You’re preaching patience every day.

Maatta just came off a career season. He gave him two games to bounce back and scratched him. If he scratches Riikola I get your argument, but Maatta at least deserve a minute to prove it was just preseason jitters.

Maatta is also notoriously rough on himself.

 

[WayneSid9987]

To elaborate more on JJ:

It's not that i'm this huge fan boy.
I'd love nothing more than having the over 11.5M being spent on Olli+Schultz+BigRig equaling a super solid 2nd pair.
But thats just not what we have atm and guys lke JJ+Riikola are in the 2nd pair mix because of it.
It is what it is and the solution atm is simply FINDING a 2nd pair that works well out of the 4 players that are in the mix for it.
JJ-Schultz ain't the first one i'd try.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Is it too early to get a Riikola jersey?

It's borderline too late.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I see no reason to pull him out. Him and Sprong need to be 20-30 pt ES forwards in our bottom six. If we don’t see that by January make a trade for a LW.

Or move Rust to LW.

Just a crazy, logical thought.

 

[Gurglesons]

Or move Rust to LW.

Just a crazy, logical thought.

No. And I’d like us to hit a LW with term to replace Hagelin at the deadline.

 

[Andy99]

I will say this. I'm not big on cementing someone's legacy on one move, but Sully really shocked me by not playing Riikola in game 1. That was the first time I witnessed Sully stick to his guys that he won a Cup with whether they deserved it or not. When he came up in 2016, he gave zero ****s. The best players played no matter how old or who had hurt feelings.

Riikola earned a spot with his camp and there were 2-3 defenders who played like **** that could have been sent a message to pick it up. Especially Maatta who had disaster preseason games against AHL talent. That message could have been at Game 1.

You see it with the lines now, too. Sprong, tonight, earned a shift or two up with the top 6. He was just having one of those nights. And the RW for Sid's line was struggling no matter who it was. It was the perfect time to pull that trigger and reward him. And he didn't. Hell if L1 RW is struggling and it's Rust/Horny, what the hell would hold you back from trying Sprong out? It's do or die for his Pens career as he's not eligible to be waived. Give it a go.

And i'll say it for the 100th time... the defensive zone is bad. 4 days to dwell on it and we still stood around covering the same guys. I'm keeping these in my back pocket to see if the trend continues. That's all.

We might be adding Murray to this list....honestly, I love him to death but De Smith should get some more starts....

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No. And I’d like us to hit a LW with term to replace Hagelin at the deadline.

 

[Andy99]

No. And I’d like us to hit a LW with term to replace Hagelin at the deadline.

Are you kidding? The guy’s a beauty here. I don’t want to re-sign him but he should finish the season here unless we miraculously miss the POs or he falls off a cliff...

 

[Gurglesons]

Are you kidding? The guy’s a beauty here. I don’t want to re-sign him but he should finish the season here unless we miraculously miss the POs or he falls off a cliff...

We would keep Hagelin, and move some picks for a player like Boedker, Baeratschi, Sobotka, etc. with some retention that gives us a bottom six LW.

 

[Andy99]

We would keep Hagelin, and move some picks for a player like Boedker, Baeratschi, Sobotka, etc. with some retention that gives us a bottom six LW.

Ok...well I’m not enthralled with those names but I could see doing that but for a top 6 LW, not a bottom 6...imo we have enough bottom 6 wings in the pipeline...we need some better talent, like the one we tried and failed to get in Domi....ideal is Kunitz circa 2011...can we find that player?

 

[NMK11]

That said, the Devils have to be the absolute worst team to catch on the tail end of a back to back. That team will skate you into the effing ground and have speed for days. I'm sure that's what they did to Washington tonight.

Man, who ever thought we'd be saying something like this about the Devils ten or even five years ago? Tells you how hard it is to drop a reputation.

One positive I'll note: I love how the Penguins ran with their defensemen tonight. All of Johnson, Oleksiak, Schultz and Riikola were separated by 25 seconds or less in terms of ice time, all were around 18 minutes TOI. That is exactly how they should be running with their defense, they should be having a 2A and 2B pairs. I didn't like how they were using Johnson for 22 minutes a night and giving Oleksiak 13 minutes a night to start the year.

This will be their saving grace on D. Much like being able to balance the TOI of our centers, our bottom four should all be getting similar ice time. Maybe Riikola will, but none of our crop of defensemen other than Dumo and Letang are without their significant flaws nor have they distinguished themselves to get more playing time.