Post-Game Talk: Penguins - 3 Coyotes - 1 | The Lovejoy Leadership Edition

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why do you guys let one user, out of this whole board, create a Beau Bennett argument worthy of 10 pages? Majority around here wants to see what Beau's got and we all agree he hasn't been given a fair shake. It's well documented how certain players are treated around here.

Also let's just face it - Beau will be somewhere else killing it one day. Or he will be out of the league because Pittsburgh wasted all of his development. But stop letting one user speak for the board.

I've seen several posters keep arguing BB has to "earn" time with Malkin and Crosby (even though he did back in Jan).

Then when it's brought up that Kunitz, Comeau, Spaling and Winnik, have four goals in a combined 62 games, but they get gifted top six spots and PP time, the answer is like the Penguins go to handbook for shills: experience.

That experience isn't getting it done and this team needs to start scoring. BB is basically out the door, but this is about putting their most skilled players together so they stand a chance in the playoffs this year. It's all about the here and now and the roster they duped themselves into for this run.

You don't let one of your most skilled fwds rot away when your team lacks skilled fwds. A good coach tries to get him going, yet he can't even get on the PP except for a few seconds here and there. They have to get BB going if they stand a chance in the playoffs. They desperately need his skill.

 

[ColePens]

Jiggy, you and I both know nothing will change. I agree with every damn word you just said. The organization doesn't and will continue to do what they do with Beau. Beau will either find his groove in another city or be so ****ed up from his lack of development that he finds his way out of the NHL.

To me - it's playing out almost identical to Despres. Despres was one of the few bright spots in the Philly/Pittsburgh series. Then the DB politics came in and he never got a shot. He comes in like a bat out of hell for 2014-15 season and politics kick in til he's traded for Ben Lovejoy. Beau was a bright spot w/ Geno in his limited time. I bet you we never see that again for an extended amount.

 

[radapex]

How is it any different than throwing Kunitz/Comeau on a line with Crosby, it not working and our only scoring line right now being neutralized?

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

So Crosby is more important than the team as a whole basically? You don't try something new that could help the team because it's not what Crosby wants? You can't be serious.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy, you and I both know nothing will change. I agree with every damn word you just said. The organization doesn't and will continue to do what they do with Beau. Beau will either find his groove in another city or be so ****ed up from his lack of development that he finds his way out of the NHL.

To me - it's playing out almost identical to Despres. Despres was one of the few bright spots in the Philly/Pittsburgh series. Then the DB politics came in and he never got a shot. He comes in like a bat out of hell for 2014-15 season and politics kick in til he's traded for Ben Lovejoy. Beau was a bright spot w/ Geno in his limited time. I bet you we never see that again for an extended amount.

After my talks with Capp, I just conceded BB was done here. I accepted he would be a plugger for his remaining months and hopefully do enough to keep Adams on the bench. That's all I hoped for.

However, since then it's become painfully apparent their top six needs his skill and playmaking. Like I said, this is about the here and now. This lack of scoring isn't going to just sort itself out by parading third liners into the top six. It's the same ****ing trap they always fall into.

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

Crosby has played most of the season with Hornqvist and Perron, who aren't exactly burners. BB can skate just as well those two. So he isn't going to slow Crosby down anymore than they have. In fact, he's more likely than any of the wingers on this team to get Crosby the puck in the NZ with speed.

This is about what's best for the team, not about fulfilling Crosby's wishes.

 

[Waffle Fries]

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

Oh so we're back to the "Crosby is deciding his linemates" thing. Why would he be asking for Comeau over Perron? Did he tell Johnston to alternate Kunitz and Winnik basically every other shift?

 

[roquay]

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

I don't think Bennett's game is really suited to playing with Crosby. It does with Malkin though.

 

[drpepper]

It's different because (a) presumably Crosby is getting the wingers he wants, and (b) there's been a lot of speculation that Crosby doesn't like playing with Bennett.

Source for Crosby not liking playing with Bennett?

So Crosby is more important than the team as a whole basically? You don't try something new that could help the team because it's not what Crosby wants? You can't be serious.

After my talks with Capp, I just conceded BB was done here. I accepted he would be a plugger for his remaining months and hopefully do enough to keep Adams on the bench. That's all I hoped for.

However, since then it's become painfully apparent their top six needs his skill and playmaking. Like I said, this is about the here and now. This lack of scoring isn't going to just sort itself out by parading third liners into the top six. It's the same ****ing trap they always fall into.



Crosby has played most of the season with Hornqvist and Perron, who aren't exactly burners. BB can skate just as well those two. So he isn't going to slow Crosby down anymore than they have. In fact, he's more likely than any of the wingers on this team to get Crosby the puck in the NZ with speed.

This is about what's best for the team, not about fulfilling Crosby's wishes

I love how this board constantly states that Crosby is selecting his wingers as if it is gospel truth.

 

[ColePens]

Well drpepper - where there is smoke, there is fire. It's been brought up quite a bit by a lot of different sources. At this point, I would say it's probably happening. Plus you blatantly ignored the words "Speculation" and "Presumably" in there.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I love how this board constantly states that Crosby is selecting his wingers as if it is gospel truth.

I love how you always over react to anything negative about Crosby. Relax.

The comment was not an absolute statement.

No one knows if he is dictating a preference for linemates and if he is, as I said, this is about the team, not Crosby.

 

[joeyjake5]

Problem with this organization is that they just don't let young players play. Last year SD should have played more. This year not giving BB a real chance, not playing Dumo or Harry doesn't make sense. This org. just does not trust youth.
And trading SD for Lovejoy makes a lot of sense.

 

[ColePens]

Problem with this organization is that they just don't let young players play. Last year SD should have played more. This year not giving BB a real chance, not playing Dumo or Harry doesn't make sense. This org. just does not trust youth.
And trading SD for Lovejoy makes a lot of sense.

If you really want to make yourself mad, go back and listen to Burkle/Mario talk to DK. They even admitted it was a problem.

 

[IcedCapp]

they aren't "giving BB a chance" because they don't think there's a chance to be given. They aren't interested in seeing what he could do if they moved him up the lineup. They gave him that opportunity. He got that week with Malkin. That was it.

That week with Malkin was Simon Despres' 4 periods with Kris Letang.

 

[JTG]

I'm just so disenchanted with the whole organization right now. This team needs to really look itself in the mirror this summer and see what they are so desperately missing. A major retool needs to occur. I'd almost blow it all the way back to the studs, let everyone walk, trade under performers for what you can get, and build around the guys who play with the message you want to convey.

When Shero first came here, he was always on the look for "character" players. Advanced stats are great, but you have to bring in guys with intangibles.

 

[ColePens]

I don't think it's players at this point. I think it's 100% accountability and it is from the top of the organization, to the stars, to the coaches, etc.

For instance - do you know how easy it is to handle the Kunitz situation? Bench his ass. Let him work at 10 minutes a night and see how low his energy is when he's playing for a ****ing spot. It's that simple.

 

[chethejet]

I watch some of the baby Pens game on TV and it is clear that the Pens have no one who is a top 6 winger or even close to that. KK is 18 and some are counting on him. He needs a couple of years of playing in the AHL to mature and develop. In short the Pens are running out of time here and need to realize only a rebuild of playing guys with upside will improve the Pens. Don't sign Martin and Ehrhoff. Just get Kunitz and Scuderi out of here. Pens have to pick up the physical play and get a handle on draft and development now. They had their chance but blew it with Bylsman. Miss management at the top is now biting them hard.

 

[JTG]

I don't think it's players at this point. I think it's 100% accountability and it is from the top of the organization, to the stars, to the coaches, etc.

This team has no backbone, no heart, and no resilience. They can be rattled easily, and they have no idea how to respond. We need to rebuild this bottom 6 in particular to bring those attributes to the table. If someone takes a run at Sid or Geno, I want to see a 4th line that gets put out there against the other team's top line, and starts taking runs of their own. We need a 3rd line that is capable of possessing the puck and be really hard to handle. We need guys who can shift momentum by checking teams to death.

Think of the bottom 6 when this team was successful. Compare it to what we have. The differences are pretty significant.

 

[Asuna]

This team has no backbone, no heart, and no resilience. They can be rattled easily, and they have no idea how to respond. We need to rebuild this bottom 6 in particular to bring those attributes to the table. If someone takes a run at Sid or Geno, I want to see a 4th line that gets put out there against the other team's top line, and starts taking runs of their own. We need a 3rd line that is capable of possessing the puck and be really hard to handle. We need guys who can shift momentum by checking teams to death.

Think of the bottom 6 when this team was successful. Compare it to what we have. The differences are pretty significant.

We said that exact same thing last year. And look where we are now. Same exact thing.

 

[ColePens]

This team had Miro Satan and Dupuis as their 4th line in 2009. Talbot/Fedotenko flanking Geno. It wasn't about talent, it was about team accountability and passion. That's why they won.

I'll keep saying it. You can put an all-star team in Pittsburgh. Select any players you want. As long as they keep having zero accountability, zero heart, this team is going nowhere.

 

[td_ice]

This team had Miro Satan and Dupuis as their 4th line in 2009. Talbot/Fedotenko flanking Geno. It wasn't about talent, it was about team accountability and passion. That's why they won.

I'll keep saying it. You can put an all-star team in Pittsburgh. Select any players you want. As long as they keep having zero accountability, zero heart, this team is going nowhere.

Amen.

 

[catnip]

We also thought JR had already fixed the bottom 6...

 

[roquay]

I'm just so disenchanted with the whole organization right now. This team needs to really look itself in the mirror this summer and see what they are so desperately missing. A major retool needs to occur. I'd almost blow it all the way back to the studs, let everyone walk, trade under performers for what you can get, and build around the guys who play with the message you want to convey.

When Shero first came here, he was always on the look for "character" players. Advanced stats are great, but you have to bring in guys with intangibles.

Taking out Kunitz, Sutter, Scuderi, Adams and replace them with more appropriate (play style, better and/or cap hit etc) players for those positions will go along way.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I watch some of the baby Pens game on TV and it is clear that the Pens have no one who is a top 6 winger or even close to that. KK is 18 and some are counting on him. He needs a couple of years of playing in the AHL to mature and develop. In short the Pens are running out of time here and need to realize only a rebuild of playing guys with upside will improve the Pens. Don't sign Martin and Ehrhoff. Just get Kunitz and Scuderi out of here. Pens have to pick up the physical play and get a handle on draft and development now. They had their chance but blew it with Bylsman. Miss management at the top is now biting them hard.

This is what I keep trying to stress.

People are bagging on BB skating, then I see posts talking about Sundqvist in the top six. He has heavy feet. BB is a better skater than Sundqvist. KK can skate, but as you said he isn't ready. He also has his own issues that don't make him anything close to a sure bet.

Blueger has talent, but he is at least 2 years away and that's if this org develops him correctly (please).

No one is coming in on a white horse to fix this problem. It seems like some people haven't let that sink in or they are ignorant about the farm.

BB was their only solution, but like with Despres, they made up their minds and now this org is going to be setback significantly for the next couple of years at fwd when BB is sent packing. It's borderline incompetence what this org has just pulled with Despres and BB, just several months after Lemieux crowed about giving young players a real chance.

 

[IcedCapp]

We also thought JR had already fixed the bottom 6...

not all of us thought that, to be fair to the 1%

 

[JTG]

Sutter being absolute **** this season has made the bottom 6 look a lot worse than originally anticipated