Paul Coffey: Overrated or Underrated?

[Dennis Bonvie]

The guy had 58 points and was 7th in scoring in a 48 game season. He was far and wide the best defenseman that year, I remember it clearly. Unless you think that something extraordinary happens in the 34 games they missed that year then I think he has his Norris wrapped up. The Norris was nearly unanimous that year. I wish it was a full year too, but the most probable case is that Coffey still wins the Norris.



Stevens wasn't. Coffey had more elite seasons and when push came to shove he peaked higher. Stevens is an all-time great, but he would definitely be behind Coffey. Chelios is a guy very similar to Coffey career-wise.

Perhaps accomplishment wise, but near polar opposites as players.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Karlsson's only 26 and has won 2 Norris Trophy and is in the running for another. He just finished a season where he was 4th in the league in scoring. No defenseman has done that since.....Coffey. And I believe doing it in the Dead Puck Era II is truly remarkable. Not to mention Mark Stone was the 2nd best offensive player on his team.

I have no problem with the idea that Erik Karlsson could have as good or a better career than Paul Coffey (and I think a lot of Paul Coffey already). If anything, the existence of an Erik Karlsson just further reinforces how rare of a skill set Paul Coffey had that it skipped an entire generation between him and Karlsson.

 

[Joedaman55]

Karlsson's only 26 and has won 2 Norris Trophy and is in the running for another. He just finished a season where he was 4th in the league in scoring. No defenseman has done that since.....Coffey. And I believe doing it in the Dead Puck Era II is truly remarkable. Not to mention Mark Stone was the 2nd best offensive player on his team.

I don't see Karlsson being better than Coffey and I'm pretty high on Karlsson. You can bring up the two Norris Trophies which is good but you have to put it in a little bit of context. Karlsson isn't competing for Norris' with a prime Bourque and Chelios for that award. Nobody Karlsson is competing with is near either of those two.

Karlsson reminds me a lot of Coffey when I watch him but he seems to do everything a little bit worst in my opinion which is no knock on Karlsson.

 

[Big Phil]

Perhaps accomplishment wise, but near polar opposites as players.

That's fine. Different styles, similar career value.

I don't see Karlsson being better than Coffey and I'm pretty high on Karlsson. You can bring up the two Norris Trophies which is good but you have to put it in a little bit of context. Karlsson isn't competing for Norris' with a prime Bourque and Chelios for that award. Nobody Karlsson is competing with is near either of those two.

Karlsson reminds me a lot of Coffey when I watch him but he seems to do everything a little bit worst in my opinion which is no knock on Karlsson.

This.

 

[Danny46]

Extremely underrated, in his prime he was better than Bourque, but because Bourque got the fairy tale ending and Coffey last years were terrible, people rate Bourque like a God and Coffey just very good player...

 

[BobbyAwe]

Offensively, I would grant Paul was the equal of Bobby. Overall, Bobby had the edge in instincts/consistency which translated to more great defensive plays, but I grudgingly admit they were pretty much on the same level.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Extremely underrated, in his prime he was better than Bourque, but because Bourque got the fairy tale ending and Coffey last years were terrible, people rate Bourque like a God and Coffey just very good player...

Not true at all.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Offensively, I would grant Paul was the equal of Bobby. Overall, Bobby had the edge in instincts/consistency which translated to more great defensive plays, but I grudgingly admit they were pretty much on the same level.

Not true at all.

 

[VanIslander]

Overrated.

 

[pandro]

The problem with Paul Coffey is that he was more of a complimentary piece, not the go-to guy, the kind you build your team around. It also doesn't help his case that whenever he'd leave a team, that team wouldn't skip a beat and went on winning without him (although this argument could be applied even to Wayne Gretzky).
He had offensive prowess that was rivaled only by the great Bobby Orr, but it appears he was never the guy that would put a team over the top.
Most people rate Coffey higher than Chris Pronger, but Pronger was the kind of a player that could put the team on his back and take them places.

 

[VanIslander]

Most people rate Coffey higher than Chris Pronger, but Pronger was the kind of a player that could put the team on his back and take them places.

Indeed.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Hey everyone! Here's some stuff I wanted to throw out there for some stimulating conversation/feedback. I don't personally have a super high or super low opinion of Coffey, but:

Goes to Pittsburgh in 87-88, Oilers still win the cup in 88 without him.
Gets traded to Detroit halfway through 92-93, his previous team (Kings) goes to the Finals that year.
Gets traded to Hartford from Detroit early in 96-97, Wings win cup without him (has a bad series against Wings while with Flyers).

I'm not purely attempting to dog the guy...but I thought those 3 things were pretty interesting. I know Bowman was to have said the Penguins "won their cup in spite of him" and I want to see in reading a Mark Messier biography Sather and him didn't get along (although this may have been because the Oilers were getting cheap etc). Is it fair to say that Coffey was a good (or really even great) player....but he wasn't a guy that was NECESSARY to get a team over the top?

Also, I've never heard anything in this regard, but because of his propensity to be offensive, did coaches in juniors TRY to force him to be a forward or center? Or even in his early Oiler years did coaching/management want him to be on offense? Look forward to your thoughts guys and gals!

 

[Danny46]

Coffey is a guy that with time has became underrated, especially on the internet, almost everyone shits on him, to me he was better than Bourque, who everybody loves because of his Cinderella ending. When they played together in Team Canada to me Coffey was always the one shining the most between the two. And people like to give him a hard time because of his defense, but nobody talks when Makarov used to make Bourque look like a f***in jabroni, Ray Bourque always had a hard time playing defense against the soviets.

Bourque was better than Coffey in the last years of both guys carrers, but there is not f***in way he was better in the 80's and early 90's, offensively Coffey was the best defenseman ever not named Bobby Orr.

And i like Bourque but i feel people overrate him so much...

 

[Hobnobs]

Coffey is a guy that with time has became underrated, especially on the internet, almost everyone shits on him, to me he was better than Bourque, who everybody loves because of his Cinderella ending. When they played together in Team Canada to me Coffey was always the one shining the most between the two. And people like to give him a hard time because of his defense, but nobody talks when Makarov used to make Bourque look like a f***in jabroni, Ray Bourque always had a hard time playing defense against the soviets.

Bourque was better than Coffey in the last years of both guys carrers, but there is not f***in way he was better in the 80's and early 90's, offensively Coffey was the best defenseman ever not named Bobby Orr.

And i like Bourque but i feel people overrate him so much...

Everyone loved Bourque before the cinderella ending. What are you talking about?

 

[VanIslander]

Bourque had EIGHTEEN (18) 1st or 2nd team NHL all-star defenseman seasons BEFORE his 13th 1st team all-star regular season prior to his "Cinderella" playoffs.

Coffey has had a career four (4) 1st team all star selections, four 2nd team selections.

 

[VanIslander]

I stand by what I wrote over 4 years ago:

I was a huge Coffey fan, and he was my fav player for years (despite my jaw dropping at Gretz's plays). I was a defenseman in the minors and both there and in roller hockey (summer leagues) I wore #7 to honor the then still young Oiler spitfire Coffey. He was fast, mobile to adapt offensively and defensively, and while he took risks, they often paid off at both ends of the ice, and when they didn't you shrugged them off because to make a half dozen great plays and one bad one, though all glaring, doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth. I knew he wasn't a Bourque. There was never a time I thought Coffey a better defenseman than Bourque, though I loved Coffey ten times over Bourque. But Coffey had something I'd never seen (I was too young to appreciate Orr in the late seventies), and when Lumme joined the Canucks, his creativity from the blueline was Coffey-lite in my eyes! I know Erik Karlsson fans wanna compare the Sens player of today to Coffey, but I think him no better than Lumme defensively, though Coffey-like offensively.

I became embarrassed and a bit ashamed of my fanboyhood over Coffey when I was in grad school at the U. of Windsor, across the Detroit river from the Joe Louis arena (you can see the building from my apartment!), and I went to a lot of games and saw Coffey circling center ice like a vulture awaiting a turnover pass to make a spectacular breakaway pass (gawd, it was like I was seeing Cliff Ronning all over again), not at all worried about backchecking, countless times outside of his own zone when goals were scored against, but at times the news highlight reel when he received a pass from the goalie or hard-working teammate who recovered a loose puck in their own zone and forwarded it quickly to him for a rush. I started to wonder: How often did he do this as an Oiler? I only watched Edmonton on T.V. from my homes in the nearby province of B.C., where I grew up (lived there 1969-1990). I was there in the Detroit-Windsor region and at games when he won the Norris trophy as a Red Wing, the 1st team all-star and IT WAS A BIG PAINFUL JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!! The guy was a "paper tiger" defensively. I saw so many games between 1994-1996 when I was a M.A. student less than a kilometer away from the rink. And I lost respect for him during the very season that a bunch of Norris trophy voters thought him the best defenseman in the NHL??!!! THAT in itself has made me jaded about a whole lot of things in society (whom voters support in elections doesn't surprise me anymore).

The upshot: As a HUGE Coffey fan through my middle school and high school years (1982-1987),
this now 47 year old hockey nut is a person who has no doubt that he became overrated,
though I dunno if it was during his time in Pittsburgh or L.A.,
but certainly by the time he reached Detroit.

 

[quoipourquoi]

From 4 years ago:

I have no problem with the idea that Erik Karlsson could have as good or a better career than Paul Coffey (and I think a lot of Paul Coffey already). If anything, the existence of an Erik Karlsson just further reinforces how rare of a skill set Paul Coffey had that it skipped an entire generation between him and Karlsson.

That Coffey’s run lasted 15 years at a pace of 28 goals, 77 assists, 105 points per 82 games and Karlsson might be done as a top-level offensive talent already indicates that not only is Coffey’s top-level rare to see, his longevity as a great offensive defenseman is as well.

Coffey’s resume ages well.

 

[Danny46]

Hey everyone! Here's some stuff I wanted to throw out there for some stimulating conversation/feedback. I don't personally have a super high or super low opinion of Coffey, but:

Goes to Pittsburgh in 87-88, Oilers still win the cup in 88 without him.
Gets traded to Detroit halfway through 92-93, his previous team (Kings) goes to the Finals that year.
Gets traded to Hartford from Detroit early in 96-97, Wings win cup without him (has a bad series against Wings while with Flyers).

You can also add that Gretzky left the year after Coffey left and the Oilers still won a Stanley Cup 2 years after, and that with Coffey was the only time that the Flyers went to the Stanley Cup finals during the Lindros era.

 

[VanIslander]

Apples and oranges.

There were 14 players with 50+ goals a season exactly a full quarter century ago.

The last full year 2018-19? Two. OV had 51 and only other 50. That's all. Very few.

You know it quoipourquoi.

 

[quoipourquoi]

You can also add, that Gretzky left the year after he left and the Oilers still won a Stanley Cup 2 years after, and that with Coffey was the only time that the Flyers went to the Stanley Cup finals during the Lindros era.

Also, while the Red Wings finally won two Stanley Cups in 1997 and 1998, they went from a 115-point pace with Paul Coffey (150-58-23) to a 99-point pace those next two seasons (82-49-33). They went from winning 65% of their games to just 50%. Even the following season, they were just 34-31-7 until adding Chris Chelios.

I think a false narrative about the Red Wings’ post-Coffey run was built off of what really was just a few streaks of red hot goaltending (Vernon, 16-4 at .927; Osgood, 15-4 at .931).

 

[quoipourquoi]

Apples and oranges.

There were 14 players with 50+ goals a season exactly a full quarter century ago.

The last full year 2018-19? Two. OV had 51 and only other 50. That's all. Very few.

You know it quoipourquoi.

Paul Coffey’s range as a top-10 scorer was 12 seasons long (hitting it in 6 of 9 full seasons during that range). Raw numbers change, but Coffey’s time on top didn’t. Karlsson’s was 5 seasons bordering on 6. Burns hit it once and was close to a second. Leetch and Bourque had one each.

And those are basically the best challengers in three generations. So where exactly are these other Paul Coffeys who are top-level offensive defensemen for 15 years?

 

[Danny46]

Also, while the Red Wings finally won two Stanley Cups in 1997 and 1998, they went from a 115-point pace with Paul Coffey (150-58-23) to a 99-point pace those next two seasons (82-49-33). They went from winning 65% of their games to just 50%. Even the following season, they were just 34-31-7 until adding Chris Chelios.

I think a false narrative about the Red Wings’ post-Coffey run was built off of what really was just a few streaks of red hot goaltending (Vernon, 16-4 at .927; Osgood, 15-4 at .931).

Yeah and the year they lost the Stanley Cup with Coffey (1995 against the Devils) was the only time they faced a great team in the finals...

 

[Admiral Awesome]

Neither

 

[Hobnobs]

Also, while the Red Wings finally won two Stanley Cups in 1997 and 1998, they went from a 115-point pace with Paul Coffey (150-58-23) to a 99-point pace those next two seasons (82-49-33). They went from winning 65% of their games to just 50%. Even the following season, they were just 34-31-7 until adding Chris Chelios.

I think a false narrative about the Red Wings’ post-Coffey run was built off of what really was just a few streaks of red hot goaltending (Vernon, 16-4 at .927; Osgood, 15-4 at .931).

Usually the winning goalies have a good sv%. I mean its a given that you need a good goalie to win is it not? What I find weird is that Bowman kept Vernon in net vs the Devils. Brodeur was faltering compared to earlier rounds iirc he ended with liek .905sv% But Vernon was absolutely horrendous with his sub .850sv%. Osgood looked better in relief. Not saying Osgood wouldve saved them, that whole team except for Fedorov and maybe a few more were letting themselves down.

And in 96 Osgood were hot with a between .92 and .93 sv% up until the avs series where he had an .86ish sv%.

 

[Hobnobs]

Yeah and the year they lost the Stanley Cup with Coffey (1995 against the Devils) was the only time they faced a great team in the finals...

Back in those days the cup final was the western conference finals and/or if Devils reached the finals. Coffey wasnt traded after 95 finals. He was traded after being caught out of position and bad turnovers in his own zone too many times in the WCFs. It wasnt just Coffey obviously but Mike Ramsay as well.